OG&E Tower

[Bellaboo]

I would guess that the Thunder have helped a little, but most stereotypes - which is probably the basis for the negative image - likely are still there for most people.

Like my professor friend always stated, you have the truth, lies and statistics.

[Urbanized]

On a trip to NYC a few years ago - before the Thunder had made the Finals or was generally considered an elite team - I wore a Thunder T-shirt with Thabo's name/number to a concert in Central Park. I was stopped by more than one New Yorker who wanted to talk Thunder hoop including a Knicks fan who told me as long as the Knicks stunk so bad he would be cheering for OKC. He knew the entire roster.

On the same trip I was walking around the Financial District and saw a family with a kid sporting a KD away jersey emblazoned with "Oklahoma City." Figuring they were FROM here, I stopped and asked them, only to find they were from Paris. Not Texas, France. Good enough for me.

[Pete]

This is absolutely true. My best friend / Thunder season ticket partner and I have gone to at least one Thunder away game since the team arrived here, with the goal being to attend a game in every NBA city. I have repeatedly tried to get him to go to SLC, which I think would be a fantastic trip, and despite the stated goal, he can't be persuaded AT ALL to move the city from the bottom of the list. He thinks it will be the worst dud of a town/trip in the entire league. I have family who live there, and my cousin (a lapsed LDS himself) says there is quite the population there who rebel against the conservatism of the general market and make it a relatively good town for carousing, but my buddy won't hear of it. Heck, I'd like to go just for the locale/scenery.

SLC is a nice city but 62% (!) of the state of Utah is Mormon. That's astounding, especially since they've seen a pretty good increase in Latino population.

There is a big enough population that you can find plenty to do and plenty who aren't super socially conservative. But the Mormon presence is still very dominant and I've felt it every time I've been there. I would hate to try and do business there as a non-LDS member.

Still, great city to visit.

[ourulz2000]

I would hate to try and do business there as a non-LDS member.

A rush to judgement.

[Pete]

A rush to judgement.

I didn't mean that to be negative as it probably came across...

I've done consulting engagements for companies in Utah and they all basically told me that the LDS community is very good about supporting their own. I'll just leave it at that.

[Rover]

SLC is a nice city but 62% (!) of the state of Utah is Mormon. That's astounding, especially since they've seen a pretty good increase in Latino population.

There is a big enough population that you can find plenty to do and plenty who aren't super socially conservative. But the Mormon presence is still very dominant and I've felt it every time I've been there. I would hate to try and do business there as a non-LDS member.

Still, great city to visit.

Actually, I have done quite a bit of business there on construction projects and have worked with some pretty good engineers and contractors there. I have never felt that my companies or I were at a disadvantage.

[edcrunk]

I booked a dj friend from Dallas a couple weeks ago and he wouldn't shut up about how impressed he was at our downtown. He said it used to think of it the same as he did about Ft Worth... blah.

[OkieNate]

I booked a dj friend from Dallas a couple weeks ago and he wouldn't shut up about how impressed he was at our downtown. He said it used to think of it the same as he did about Ft Worth... blah.

Had a similar experience with my in-laws from Houston. It was their first trip here and they were very impressed with what was going on. It felt good to hear, and to see their reactions. Their favorite buildings were Devon, City Place, First National, Braniff Building, and... Stage Center

[HangryHippo]

There's a new project in Dallas' Uptown district called Akard Place that is going to have a 16-story office tower and a 20-story residential building. When I was reading the article, I thought it sounded very similar to what has been proposed for the Stage Center site here in OKC and thus would be an interesting comparison. The Akard Place project is much more aligned with what I had hoped to see for the Stage Center site in terms of design and quality.

Ultimately, the rendering for the Dallas project just pisses me off because that's what I think OKC should be getting and not what Rainey has shown us thus far.

Here is a link to the article in the Dallas paper.

And here is the rendering:

[Plutonic Panda]

That's cool and all, but would be better suited for the C2S area. I still think something taller should be going here :/

[HangryHippo]

That's cool and all, but would be better suited for the C2S area. I still think something taller should be going here :/

I agree, but this 16 story building looks a hell of a lot better than the one Rainey showed.

[Plutonic Panda]

true dat

[dankrutka]

That's cool and all, but would be better suited for the C2S area. I still think something taller should be going here :/

I'm really surprised that you want a tall building. Never heard you express that sentiment.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm really surprised that you want a tall building. Never heard you express that sentiment.

Come on maaan. I don't want to be that tall, just 50-100 stories ;P

[Pete]

Should be getting very close to demolition on this property.

I don't know who the architect is but I did hear something interesting...

Rainey Williams approached Pickard Chilton (architects for Devon Energy Center) but they declined. They did not want to be affiliated with the project due to the controversy over demolishing Stage Center.

At least it shows Williams has been looking for a world-class architect.

[coov23]

Should be getting very close to demolition on this property.

I don't know who the architect is but I did hear something interesting...

Rainey Williams approached Pickard Chilton (architects for Devon Energy Center) but they declined. They did not want to be affiliated with the project due to the controversy over demolishing Stage Center.

At least it shows Williams has been looking for a world-class architect.

Honestly, is there even any controversy anymore? Most who were against the building demolition have come to grips with the fact the building is gone. Packard Chilton being the architect would've made it even less of a big deal, in my opinion.

[HangryHippo]

Honestly, is there even any controversy anymore? Most who were against the building demolition have come to grips with the fact the building is gone. Packard Chilton being the architect would've made it even less of a big deal, in my opinion.

No kidding. That seems short-sighted on their part. If he had a big time architect, I'd feel a hell of a lot less angst over taking down the shipping containers.

That's really disappointing though. That would have been great to have another tower of their caliber.

[BDP]

Artists typically don't want to be part of destroying another artist's work, regardless of their opinion of the work or the opinion of others. It may not mean anything to people around here, but is is well regarded within parts of the architectural community. Don't worry though, there will be a firm that won't mind doing it. Pickard Chilton is established enough that they don't have to compromise one of their standards to get work.

[Dubya61]

No kidding. That seems short-sighted on their part. If he had a big time architect, I'd feel a hell of a lot less angst over taking down the shipping containers.

That's really disappointing though. That would have been great to have another tower of their caliber.

Maybe they felt that what was going to be requested of them (a la the "tower" that we all seem to hate) was not something they wanted to be involved with. Let's say you were a great painter with works that ranked up there with truly well-known great art. Would you like to be asked to do something lesser than what you want to be known for?

[HangryHippo]

Maybe they felt that what was going to be requested of them (a la the "tower" that we all seem to hate) was not something they wanted to be involved with. Let's say you were a great painter with works that ranked up there with truly well-known great art. Would you like to be asked to do something lesser than what you want to be known for?

You know, I don't know. I suppose it would depend upon what I was being asked to do.

[HangryHippo]

Artists typically don't want to be part of destroying another artist's work, regardless of their opinion of the work or the opinion of others. It may not mean anything to people around here, but is is well regarded within parts of the architectural community. Don't worry though, there will be a firm that won't mind doing it. Pickard Chilton is established enough that they don't have to compromise one of their standards to get work.

I'm not worried at all. I'm relieved to see it closer to being gone.

Pickard Chilton is entitled to make whatever decision they feel is best for them, I just admired their work with Devon and would have liked to see them work with Williams on this tower. They chose not to and I see that as unfortunate. It is what it is.

[Rover]

Once the demo is done, no architect should feel tainted by being part of the new project. They aren't part of the decision to demo it. However, they can be challenged to design a worthy replacement that will make (most) people forget about what is gone.

[BDP]

However, they can be challenged to design a worthy replacement that will make (most) people forget about what is gone.

True, but maybe they felt that they couldn't do that, given the scale and standards of the project. There are plenty though that don't give a crap about what they destroy in the process. Pei certainly didn't.

[coov23]

Once the demo is done, no architect should feel tainted by being part of the new project. They aren't part of the decision to demo it. However, they can be challenged to design a worthy replacement that will make (most) people forget about what is gone.

Exactly. If I recall, didn't they have to demo buildings to build the the Devon Tower?

[Rover]

True, but maybe they felt that they couldn't do that, given the scale and standards of the project. There are plenty though that don't give a crap about what they destroy in the process. Pei certainly didn't.

I understand the animosity towards Pei, but he was acting to satisfy his client...the leadership of OKC. He was using then contemporary thought to redefine OKC which was mired in a stalled out dilapidated urban core. He wasn't being asked to maintain a heritage of a small city, but rather to design a city of the future that would excite businessmen and creative persons alike. It was zealous and overreaching and would have been difficult even if recessions hadn't killed it. But, his "vision" of the modern city for OKC to be was killed dead at the worst possible time....after destroying one and before building another. His failure was born out of our city's aggressive efforts to be bold.

Whoever is hired to do the SCT isn't destroying anything. I think Pickard Chilton has created their OKC masterpiece and anything they now do here will fall short until someone is willing to spend > $1 Billion and to touch the sky. This project isn't that. However, other firms should aspire to make their mark and can enter into an emerging market. They will be able to do something great, even though it won't have Devon's budget or scope. Size isn't everything in buildings. Otherwise, lets just talk about quality being measured in square feet and be done with it...bigger wins.