The Rise

[BillyOcean]

Very curious why they are moving so slowly, as the last revised finish date was May but they still have tons to do and haven't even started any of the tenant finish-out.

Mid to late summer seems more realistic.

If they have tenants open for business before thanksgiving I will be absolutely shocked. This has the same feel as aloft. I expect 2015 to be realistic target at this point.

[betts]

I've never seen more than a couple of people working there.

[Pete]

What's strange is they are fully pre-leased so they have tremendous incentives to get the space ready and start raking in the rent.

Plus, they are likely to lose some tenants if they don't get with it. Not many businesses can merely put things on hold for 6 to 12 months.

[HangryHippo]

Perhaps tuck could chime in on the delays... It just doesn't make any sense.

[tuck]

The space is pretty unique and a little quirky. Several changes have been made over the past few months which all require city approval. I think this is just how things go when you try to save a building that could have possibly been razed. The Land Run guys are doing a good job communicating issues that effect the timeline. I think The Pump Bar will be first to show great progress, followed by Pizzeria Gusto, then the rest of the main structure on 23rd.

[Pete]

Yes, I did see an application to the board of appeals asking for exception to a couple of codes.

Tuck, have they given you a new opening date?

[Rover]

After the work began and you see the old stripped off, it doesn't seem like it was anything historic or significant beneath. Looking at the "bones", it makes you wonder why a complet demo wasn't cheaper and a better structure resulting. Any architechturally significant elements could have been salvaged and reused, one would think.

[Pete]

Here are some recent photos from the FlashBack RetroPub Facebook Page. They still have a looooong way to go:

[GaryOKC6]

I met with the guys at Land run recently and they are definitely on the ball, They are planning to open this year. Sooner than rather than later. They definitely have the resources and "know how" to get this off high center and completed on schedule.

[dankrutka]

I met with the guys at Land run recently and they are definitely on the ball, They are planning to open this year. Sooner than rather than later. They definitely have the resources and "know how" to get this off high center and completed on schedule.

How are they going to "complete this on schedule?" Their sign says they were supposed to open "Fall 2013." They're already way behind schedule and things look to be moving slowly.

In the end, it's more important that they do it right. This is an exciting project.

[catch22]

I do know this is an old building, and I don't enjoy seeing them come down. (As much as Urbanized and Spartan think I do)

But at what point during this does this become the legend of the old shovel, passed down generation to generation. Where the grandfather explains it's been in the family for 60 years and he replaced the handle 3 times, the shaft twice, and the head/blade 4 times. Instead of pretty much replacing every part of this building, would it be more economical to just start from scratch?

[Urbanized]

It's funny; I would not have been at all opposed to demolition of these buildings assuming they were replaced by the same massing at zero setback. They had been so fundamentally altered that any notion of "historic" is long gone. This is clearly higher and better use. I WILL include the caveat that now that the wonderful historic facade of the Pizzeria Gusto structure has been revealed, I sincerely hope they explore restoring the front of that building.

But I am hardly a knee-jerk preservationist. See my repeated posts, for instance, regarding support for Aloft replacing the historic Finley building in Deep Deuce.

I think the reason they are retaining these structures and working from that position must be that they pencil-whipped it and found that in this case it was less expensive to do, whatever the reason. I will trust their judgment.

[Jeepnokc]

How are they going to "complete this on schedule?" Their sign says they were supposed to open "Fall 2013." They're already way behind schedule and things look to be moving slowly.

In the end, it's more important that they do it right. This is an exciting project.

Although not entirely to blame (especially if they were projecting last year) , this winter has not been the most builder friendly weather. It has us behind schedule also.

[catch22]

It's funny; I would not have been at all opposed to demolition of these buildings assuming they were replaced by the same massing at zero setback. They had been so fundamentally altered that any notion of "historic" is long gone. This is clearly higher and better use. I WILL include the caveat that now that the wonderful historic facade of the Pizzeria Gusto structure has been revealed, I sincerely hope they explore restoring the front of that building.

But I am hardly a knee-jerk preservationist. See my repeated posts, for instance, regarding support for Aloft replacing the historic Finley building in Deep Deuce.

I think the reason they are retaining these structures and working from that position must be that they pencil-whipped it and found that in this case it was less expensive to do, whatever the reason. I will trust their judgment.

Wasn't calling you out was just making a point that I am not a pro-demolition it's due to my views of the Stage Center.

[Urbanized]

By the way, as long as they aren't having to shore up the walls or do any other engineering heroics, I fail to see how this would be more expensive than building new. They would be paying for demolition ether way (and this way have less of it), they would be paying for a roof either way (and it looks like on a couple of the buildings they are repurposing the existing), and they would be installing new windows on the front and side either way.

What they will now be left with is essentially a white box, with large portions of existing masonry built and paid for a couple of generations ago. Sounds like a win to me.

[Urbanized]

Wasn't calling you out was just making a point that I am not a pro-demolition it's due to my views of the Stage Center.

Meh. I don't think anybody on here actually understands my position on Stage Center. I definitely think it was worth saving, but in retrospect it should have been done decades ago with the creation of a foundation dedicated ONLY to the preservation of the building - regardless of tenant - relieving some poor theater nonprofit du jour from the responsibility. I mostly said all along that the recent effort to force its preservation were an exercise in futility. The decision on it was unconsciously made many years ago, and consciously made when it wasn't included in MAPs 3 or P180. I mostly just think it's a bummer.

Anyway, this thread is about The Rise.

[catch22]

By the way, as long as they aren't having to shore up the walls or do any other engineering heroics, I fail to see how this would be more expensive than building new. They would be paying for demolition ether way (and this way have less of it), they would be paying for a roof either way (and it looks like on a couple of the buildings they are repurposing the existing), and they would be installing new windows on the front and side either way.

What they will now be left with is essentially a white box, with large portions of existing masonry built and paid for a couple of generations ago. Sounds like a win to me.

Good points.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Contrary to popular opinion, renovation is very rarely more expensive than new construction. Usually only in cases where the new use necessitates significant structural modifications.

[Urbanized]

More often than not "too expensive to renovate" is just way of overcoming the unwelcome objections of those who would like to see a building retained. Also, it sometimes DOES require a little more creativity, specialized knowledge and critical thinking, all of which we know are often in short supply these days. It's usually a shortcut; a crutch.

[Spartan]

What do you mean? It's cheaper to demolish than it is to renovate.

(Now...what you do with the cleared site will probably cost more)

I do know this is an old building, and I don't enjoy seeing them come down. (As much as Urbanized and Spartan think I do)

But at what point during this does this become the legend of the old shovel, passed down generation to generation. Where the grandfather explains it's been in the family for 60 years and he replaced the handle 3 times, the shaft twice, and the head/blade 4 times. Instead of pretty much replacing every part of this building, would it be more economical to just start from scratch?

I didn't realize we had a demolition debate here?

[catch22]

What do you mean? It's cheaper to demolish than it is to renovate.

(Now...what you do with the cleared site will probably cost more)



I didn't realize we had a demolition debate here?

We don't. I was just curious as to the difference in cost of such an extensive rehab vs building new.

[DoctorTaco]

The Retro arcade people were on Twitter last night bemoaning yet another delay in their opening.

[BillyOcean]

^^^^

Land Run people will lose some of the already lined up tenants on this deal, no doubt...how long can you sit idle with your business and wait on your spot to finish before you go to plan b?

[HangryHippo]

^^^^

Land Run people will lose some of the already lined up tenants on this deal, no doubt...how long can you sit idle with your business and wait on your spot to finish before you go to plan b?

That's been my concern with all this delay nonsense. They're going to start losing some of the more unique tenants that can't afford to wait on their indefinite opening delays.

[onthestrip]

^^^^

Land Run people will lose some of the already lined up tenants on this deal, no doubt...how long can you sit idle with your business and wait on your spot to finish before you go to plan b?

Many leases spell out the landlords delivery date and in some cases allow the tenant to back out of lease if there are significant delays. Thing is though, there really arent many other choices in that area at the moment so they are all probably going to stick it out.