Record High Gas Bill !!

[Servicetech571]

Just got our highest gas bill in 3+ YEARS, OUCH. $102.75 for 12.9DTH.
Only 1.8DTH more use than last month, but $17 more in cost.
How did everybody else do last month?

[kelroy55]

0... I don't have gas at the house, well NG anyway.

[kevinpate]

Just went and looked. slightly higher than the prior month bill. Looking at same period for three years, not a whole lot of difference at all on our end.

[Dubya61]

0... I don't have gas at the house, well NG anyway.

Back in the day when you could pump gas before paying, a friend of mine got gas at the convenience store, went inside to pay, purchased something else, turned around to leave, and then remembered not paying for the gas. She stopped at the door, turned around and announced to the clerk, "Oh, I have gas." Clerk: "I'm sorry."
awkward silence followed by laughter.

[Servicetech571]

[QUAPAW5]

Gotta love that Service Charge (at least ONG does), you pay it if you use Zero dekatherms or 10 dekatherms, TY Corp Comm ..

[stick47]

Gotta love that Service Charge (at least ONG does), you pay it if you use Zero dekatherms or 10 dekatherms, TY Corp Comm ..

Why I'm done with ONG. If I can heat & cool my total electric 2200 SF home for $113.11/mo avg they can go suck on a gas pipe.

[Servicetech571]

Why I'm done with ONG. If I can heat & cool my total electric 2200 SF home for $113.11/mo avg they can go suck on a gas pipe.

You must have a newer well insulated home with a heat pump.

[Servicetech571]

Gotta love that Service Charge (at least ONG does), you pay it if you use Zero dekatherms or 10 dekatherms, TY Corp Comm ..

[ctchandler]

Servicetech,
i used 8.996 dekatherms and paid $81.03 last year and 14.490 dekatherms for $103 this year. This year I paid $7.11 per dekatherm and last year I paid $9.004 per dekatherm. That sounds pretty good to me. Where did I go wrong? It looks like my price has gone down since last year.
C. T.

[Servicetech571]

Servicetech,
i used 8.996 dekatherms and paid $81.03 last year and 14.490 dekatherms for $103 this year. This year I paid $7.11 per dekatherm and last year I paid $9.004 per dekatherm. That sounds pretty good to me. Where did I go wrong? It looks like my price has gone down since last year.
C. T.

Are you dividing the entire bill by DTH used? Keep in mind the monthly service fee is the same regardless of use so you will see an effective lower cost per DTH with higher use.

[ylouder]

Service - I hate to say it like this, but after years of ONG running their rebate programs to know more about peoples HVAC systems(the reduced price inspections), drive demand up(through appliance rebates), and increase reliance(through change overs from electric to gas appliances); what did you really expect to happen?

They are there to make as much money as they can.

As a side note many years ago I used to work in Management at the York Plant (now JCI) off I-35 and in the engineering department we had a lab to test new equipment. There was a natural gas feed and special equipment to increase or decrease the btu rating of fuel to ensure that the units would properly function all over the country and world. Most people dont know this but natural gas has different energy properties depending when and where you bought it. After talking to one of the technicians and asking what test he performs he informed me that each year ONG dilutes the btu ratings around october - march so we get less power out of our fuel and forced to use more during the cold season. If anyone was qualified to say that he certainly was that person and had the engineering test equipment to do it.

[ctchandler]

Servicetech,
First, I was off a month and second, I didn't subtract the service fee, so the correct information is:
"I used 14.42 dekatherms and paid $81.60 last year and 14.490 dekatherms for $103 this year. This year I paid $5.13 per dekatherm and last year I paid $5.65 per dekatherm.".

Are you dividing the entire bill by DTH used? Keep in mind the monthly service fee is the same regardless of use so you will see an effective lower cost per DTH with higher use.

[zookeeper]

$183 for me. ONG is doing okay. Oh, I'm sorry. ONG isn't "allowed" to make money on the gas. That line gets so old from their PR department.
So, let me phrase it correctly, ONEOK is REALLY raking it in!

[ctchandler]

Ylouder,
I would be interested in verifiable sources to confirm your statement. You are aware that we have a corporation commission that controls rates and is a quasi oversight group? I'm not naive, at my age I'd better not be but I have serious doubts that they could do this without anyone's knowledge. I'm sure they would like to, but I believe it's illegal.
C. T.

Service - I hate to say it like this, but after years of ONG running their rebate programs to know more about peoples HVAC systems(the reduced price inspections), drive demand up(through appliance rebates), and increase reliance(through change overs from electric to gas appliances); what did you really expect to happen?

They are there to make as much money as they can.

As a side note many years ago I used to work in Management at the York Plant (now JCI) off I-35 and in the engineering department we had a lab to test new equipment. There was a natural gas feed and special equipment to increase or decrease the btu rating of fuel to ensure that the units would properly function all over the country and world. Most people dont know this but natural gas has different energy properties depending when and where you bought it. After talking to one of the technicians and asking what test he performs he informed me that each year ONG dilutes the btu ratings around october - march so we get less power out of our fuel and forced to use more during the cold season. If anyone was qualified to say that he certainly was that person and had the engineering test equipment to do it.

[zookeeper]

Ylouder,
I would be interested in verifiable sources to confirm your statement. You are aware that we have a corporation commission that controls rates and is a quasi oversight group? I'm not naive, at my age I'd better not be but I have serious doubts that they could do this without anyone's knowledge. I'm sure they would like to, but I believe it's illegal.
C. T.

C.T. - Illegal? Yes. Still possible? Absolutely. The Corporation Commission is bought and paid for by these very energy companies they regulate!
Again, look at Cliff Branan who is running to replace Patrice Douglas (who is running for Congress). He is running a blatantly pro-energy company platform and - some would think this was a joke from The Onion or something, but it's true -- Larry Nichols and Harold Hamm are Co-Chairs of his campaign! How corrupt and bought can you possibly be? The regulatees buying their regulators right in the face of the public they screw. But like good "conservatives" Oklahoma will go duly elect the "free market" Branan. Comical if it didn't really hurt a lot of people.

[ctchandler]

Zookeeper,
Isn't everything the corporation commission does part of open records under the Freedom of Information Act (or something like that)? I still want to hear from Ylouder about a source. And I didn't intend for this to become a political thing. It seems we have several threads for that.
C. T.

C.T. - Illegal? Yes. Still possible? Absolutely. The Corporation Commission is bought and paid for by these very energy companies they regulate!
Again, look at Cliff Branan who is running to replace Patrice Douglas (who is running for Congress). He is running a blatantly pro-energy company platform and - some would think this was a joke from The Onion or something, but it's true -- Larry Nichols and Harold Hamm are Co-Chairs of his campaign! How corrupt and bought can you possibly be? The regulatees buying their regulators right in the face of the public they screw. But like good "conservatives" Oklahoma will go duly elect the "free market" Branan. Comical if it didn't really hurt a lot of people.

[zookeeper]

Zookeeper,
Isn't everything the corporation commission does part of open records under the Freedom of Information Act (or something like that)? I still want to hear from Ylouder about a source. And I didn't intend for this to become a political thing. It seems we have several threads for that.
C. T.

My apologies. It's very hard to discuss ONG and the Corporation Commission without politics getting involved. And yes, we had the same FOIA and laws when JC Watts was taking bags full of money from the old Southwestern Bell. Today - he's still a hero to some.

Back to rates from ONG (without politics?)

[ctchandler]

Zookeeper,
I'm pretty good at getting "off topic" myself, no apology was necessary but accepted.
C. T.

My apologies. It's very hard to discuss ONG and the Corporation Commission without politics getting involved. And yes, we had the same FOIA and laws when JC Watts was taking bags full of money from the old Southwestern Bell. Today - he's still a hero to some.

Back to rates from ONG (without politics?)

[ylouder]

CT

As I mentioned I worked for York (now Johnson Controls) about 8 years ago and was a great place to work. I mentioned they have an entire testing and engineering department (they have sound chambers, environmental (rain/heat/wind) testing chamber, and regular testing chambers) that test different units to ensure they work in different environmental areas and with regional natural gas (along with propane, etc). Long story short they have to be tested to make sure that the btu's coming out of the pipe in Wyoming wont set the HVAC unit on fire but will still meet the energy ratings on Washington dc natural gas. (hypothetical citys)

At the time I noticed a pilot light that was lit and had some instruments in the flame and asked what it was, the tech said that they constantly measure the quality of the natural gas entering in the building to make sure the test are properly documented. Thats when he mentioned the quality of the gas decreasing like clock work during colder months.

As a late 20 something the older gentleman had no reason to blow smoke or impress me. If I had to guess its not a monumental decrease, but over the span of an entire city and region im sure they pocket some pretty good pocket change by small decreases.

Edit - to correct small information and typos from tablet. From the sounds of it you guys are fairly familiar with btu's. The easiest way to see a btu in action is boil a pot of water over a propane camp stove vs on your home stove. Or convert your gas grill from propane to natural gas (you'll get a fraction of the heat with nat. gas), the differences in the btu in the two gases are pretty amazing when the flame can be the same size but one is much hotter.

[ctchandler]

Ylouder,
So, how do you/I verify this since it is apparently just somebody telling you and you accepting it as fact? I can say that my price per dekatherm for July was $7.812 and for January it is/was $5.13 so I'm not sure why the winter rates are cheaper. The problem is, my rates don't have anything to do with changing the quality of the natural gas. I really would be interested in something concrete. I will attempt to find out something when I get a chance.
C. T.

CT

As I mentioned I worked for York (now Johnson Controls) about 8 years ago and was a great place to work. I mentioned they have an entire testing and engineering department (they have sound chambers, environmental (rain/heat/wind) testing chamber, and regular testing chambers) that test different units to ensure they work in different environmental areas and with regional natural gas (along with propane, etc). Long story short they have to be tested to make sure that the btu's coming out of the pipe in Wyoming wont set the HVAC unit on fire but will still meet the energy ratings on Washington dc natural gas. (hypothetical citys)

At the time I noticed a pilot light that was lit and had some instruments in the flame and asked what it was, the tech said that they measure they constantly measure the quality of the natural gas entering in the building to make sure the test are properly documented. Thats when he mentioned the quality of the gas decreasing like clock work during colder months.

As a late 20 something the older gentleman had no reason to blow smoke or impress me. If I had to guess its not a monumental decrease, but over the span of an entire city and region im sure they pocket some pretty good pocket change by small decreases.

Edit - to correct small information.

[RadicalModerate]

No matter what the truth here is, the price of gas to heat your home and cook your food is probably positive in terms of the cost/value metric as compared to going forth to scavenge twigs and scraps of wood to do the same thing. Especially in terms of the expenditure of energy. Isn't it?

[ylouder]

I’ll be brief; I’ve had a few beers and going to have dinner here at 730 so please forgive my typing.

Long story short it would be hard to validate on your own without the equipment. As we all know the Corp. Commission is a shell and works on behalf of the industry and I’m sure they would feed you a line that the composition of the gas falls into industry standards and is a publically traded good that they purchase in bulk from the pipeline. I’m sure they’ve had citizens call them on this before and they have a long list of prerecorded answers to feed the public to get them off their backs.

I do want to say im not an engineer BUT Im sure if you really wanted to you could run some home test during the winter and summer if you had your house heated or cooled to a set temp, and if the barometric pressure and humidity were the exact same to see how long it took you to boil a liter of water and compared the two times. Outside of fancy equipment I don’t know any way that an ordinary person could do it without maybe ordering some test equipment off ebay?

I’m really sorry I cant be more help than that, that was what feels like a lifetime ago and an industry change (aviation now) ago. Good luck, I was surprised at the time when I was told that and still take it as gospel because the lab technician obviously knew his stuff and was qualified for his job.

That’s my two cents – feel free to take it or leave it and you guys have a good night.

[windowphobe]

From my own bills:

January: 12.317 Dth, $4.579/Dth, total $92.24.

February: 11.500 Dth, $5.199/Dth, total $94.74.

February bill covered one fewer day of service; BTU factor was insignificantly higher.

I'm assuming none of this has to do with ONG's being spun off into ONE Gas.

[RadicalModerate]

. . . As we all know the Corp. Commission is a shell and works on behalf of the industry . . .
That’s my two cents – feel free to take it or leave it and you guys have a good night.

The only flaw in your "argument" is that not all of us [that is "we all" a.k.a. "us'ins"] know that yet.
Prob'ly has sumpin' t' do with why we keep electin' 'em(?)
Well . . . don't it?