OG&E Tower

[Snowman]

This is absolutely 100% ridiculous. This whole thing.

If I had an original Picasso, and announced to the world I was going to light it on fire. Someone would probably come out and buy it off my hands to save it.

...

If you had an original Picasso it could be relocated relatively easily to any interested party around the world, plus at this point it would not be an original but a refurbished version that has been damaged again and needs to be redone entirely

[catch22]

A sham RFP? If you respond to an RFP with no funding plan, why would someone accept that?

Even if there's not a formal RFP out, you can still go to the owner and try and broker a deal.

None of that happened.

In fact, there's still no proposal. No one is proposing something that saves it. This is ridiculous.

[coov23]

So spell this out for me, are you making a civil rights based argument for demolishing Stage Center?

I'm making a tax payer argument. It's a nation-wide issue that we pander to the few for just about everything. If you don't believe that, you're living in a different America than me.

[coov23]

Well there was a flood. Then there was a sham RFP. Then it was sold to a developer.

Help me understand how your narrative fits into what really happened.

I have to ask, if you don't live in OKC, and can't vote on any issue, why give your two cents on every issue? Serious question.

[Urbanized]

Wait...did I miss the part where someone was suggesting taxpayer dollars be brought to bear?

[windowphobe]

The city of Detroit had private individuals rally to raise $300,000,000 to save some form of art up there. I don't recall what it was right now. But the people of that city raised $300 million to rescue the arts.

The collection of the Detroit Institute of Arts, the second-largest municipally-owned museum in the country; its collection is valued at somewhere upwards of half a billion. (There's a single Van Gogh valued in nine figures all by itself.)

[catch22]

The collection of the Detroit Institute of Arts, the second-largest municipally-owned museum in the country; its collection is valued at somewhere upwards of half a billion. (There's a single Van Gogh valued in nine figures all by itself.)

It seems clear to me. If something of value is at risk, people will come forward to save it. And if it's especially dire, they will come in with money.

[Teo9969]

There in lies the problem. Only a select few view that rundown building as, "historic". It had its time--very,very short time-- but it's not historic like film exchange, or Skirvin, was historic. That building has been more of an issue than it has been worth it. Again, are we deemed to pay for the minorities view on this, again? If so, it's another in a long line of few get their way over the many. Such a shame in society.

Historic isn't up for interpretation.

Stage Center is historic.

You can choose to believe that it is not, but that is simply a choice to be wrong.

[BDP]

Again, are we deemed to pay for the minorities view on this, again? If so, it's another in a long line of few get their way over the many. Such a shame in society.

Since when does Oklahoma City have a long track record of preserving buildings to satisfy a few people? We don't have have that great of a preservation record, period, let alone one facilitated by some small, yet powerful, activist group. We've probably torn down more buildings to accommodate parking than have been saved by a small preservationist movement. The only thing I can remember that faced demolition and was saved in part by a grassroots effort was when Chase wanted to tear down the gold dome. Most of the structures that have been saved through public intervention or denial have broad recognition as being historic or architecturally significant. We've also torn down a good number of buildings that were generally appreciated.

You can't look at old pictures of OKC, compare it to today, and conclude that OKC has been shaped in any way by a minority preservation effort. Saving Stage Center would be an anomaly in the history of Oklahoma City development.

[CuatrodeMayo]

The only thing I can remember that faced demolition and was saved in part by a grassroots effort was when Chase wanted to tear down the gold dome.

An interestingly enough, after all the preservation effort, it STILL came uncomfortably close to demolition again just recently.

[BDP]

An interestingly enough, after all the preservation effort, it STILL came uncomfortably close to demolition again just recently.

It will probably happen again. But, for now, it seems to have an appreciative owner willing to spend some money on it.

[Spartan]

I have to ask, if you don't live in OKC, and can't vote on any issue, why give your two cents on every issue? Serious question.

Because I care greatly about my hometown, have a very informed opinion, and because I am entitled to contribute. You should go move somewhere because it's better to launch a career in an industry, and divorcing yourself of participating in the exciting growth of OKC. I just fight for progress bc I hate the constant two steps forward, one step backward. We can do better. We can be amazing. It just pains me that we hope to be a little brother version of Denver soon when we can be better than that.

There was a really weird/interesting story in the Cleveland Plain Dealer (one of the nation's top newspapers) that the east Ohio Utica Shale energy boom could falter as Cleveland lost it's United hub status this week. It's a tragic story about losing a connection to a main energy center that had Oklahoma City on the front page below the fold.

By making the right decisions OKC can be better and bigger than Dallas. We've lusted after Dallas for decades.

[Rover]

I don't care where Spartan lives now, he is one of the more knowledgeable and informed posters on this site and he loves OKC. If you are trying to discredit him, you will have to do better than that. I don't always agree with his arguments but he has substance to his opinions.

[dmoor82]

Because I care greatly about my hometown, have a very informed opinion, and because I am entitled to contribute. You should go move somewhere because it's better to launch a career in an industry, and divorcing yourself of participating in the exciting growth of OKC. I just fight for progress bc I hate the constant two steps forward, one step backward. We can do better. We can be amazing. It just pains me that we hope to be a little brother version of Denver soon when we can be better than that.

There was a really weird/interesting story in the Cleveland Plain Dealer (one of the nation's top newspapers) that the east Ohio Utica Shale energy boom could falter as Cleveland lost it's United hub status this week. It's a tragic story about losing a connection to a main energy center that had Oklahoma City on the front page below the fold.

By making the right decisions OKC can be better and bigger than Dallas. We've lusted after Dallas for decades.

LIKE!!! except for the bigger than Dallas thing, I don't want that, better Yes!

[GaryOKC6]

We can have the best of both worlds. OKC is bigger than Dallas in geographic size but not population. Would not want that part.

[OKCRT]

We can have the best of both worlds. OKC is bigger than Dallas in geographic size but not population. Would not want that part.

More people=more tax monies=better OKC

[David]

I don't care where Spartan lives now, he is one of the more knowledgeable and informed posters on this site and he loves OKC. If you are trying to discredit him, you will have to do better than that. I don't always agree with his arguments but he has substance to his opinions.

Amen.

[GaryOKC6]

Agreed, I just don't want to be as crowded as Dallas. The same formula can also be used when attracting visitors who bring out of town dollars here and leave it behind. This is one good aspect of the MAPS projects.

[MustangGT]

By making the right decisions OKC can be better and bigger than Dallas. We've lusted after Dallas for decades.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Can be better yes. Will be better not hardly. OKC does not have near the money/class/cosmopolitan flair to even equal Dallas let alone surpass it.

[dmoor82]

More people=more tax monies=better OKC

There are a lot of smaller cities than Dallas I would consider better IMO. Bigger doesn't equal better.

[GaryOKC6]

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Can be better yes. Will be better not hardly. OKC does not have near the money/class/cosmopolitan flair to even equal Dallas let alone surpass it.

I guess it all depends on your definition of "better". My guess is it means something different to each of us. For me it is OKC not having near the traffic.

[dmoor82]

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Can be better yes. Will be better not hardly. OKC does not have near the money/class/cosmopolitan flair to even equal Dallas let alone surpass it.

cosmopolitan flair, class? To me Dallas is a sprawled out ugly mess, cities like Boston laugh at Dallas' lack of cosmopolitan flair and "class" as you say. When I visit the East Coast's smaller cities ( Providence,Hartford etc..) I feel I'm in a city with more "class" or Cosmopolitan flair as you put it! Dallas is a big city, but lets not put Dallas on a pedestal, and also not compare OKC to metro's 5-6 times as large!

[Plutonic Panda]

cosmopolitan flair, class? To me Dallas is a sprawled out ugly mess, cities like Boston laugh at Dallas' lack of cosmopolitan flair and "class" as you say. When I visit the East Coast's smaller cities ( Providence,Hartford etc..) I feel I'm in a city with more "class" or Cosmopolitan flair as you put it! Dallas is a big city, but lets not put Dallas on a pedestal, and also not compare OKC to metro's 5-6 times as large!

Boston is pretty cool. Boston is actually one of the few cities I'd ever consider living in up north. Portland, Maine is a pretty kick ass city to. As far as Boston being better than Dallas, I'd just simply disagree with you. Dallas has done suburbs right and is beautifully sprawled out. If you are looking for major density such as NYC, Dallas is not your city. If you are looking for world class suburbs with a growing mass transit system, amazing highways, ever growing downtown with huge new urbanism projects, expensive car dealerships, world class airport, huge world class shopping districts, then I'd say Dallas is your city.

[s00nr1]

I don't know why people on this site always want to hate on Dallas. I understand and agree OKC should not try to duplicate Dallas (nor could it) but there is certainly no reason to use that as a reason to attack it. Personally, there are many parts of Dallas I truly enjoy such as Uptown, North Greenville, and University Park.

I've spent the last 6 days in Atlanta and if you want to talk about sprawl, this is the place. Heck, even the CBD of downtown is insanely stretched out.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't know why people on this site always want to hate on Dallas. I understand and agree OKC should not try to duplicate Dallas (nor could it) but there is certainly no reason to use that as a reason to attack it. Personally, there are many parts of Dallas I truly enjoy such as Uptown, North Greenville, and University Park.

I've spent the last 6 days in Atlanta and if you want to talk about sprawl, this is the place. Heck, even the CBD of downtown is insanely stretched out.

I agree with you. Dallas is actually taking huge strides to improve their mass transit and they have a ton of urban projects going on. I don't understand it. As for what OKC should do, I think OKC needs to go in its own direction. That doesn't mean it can't model off of cities for certain ideas and innovation, but I want OKC to be a model FOR other cities, not a city that models itself FROM other cities.

My only guess would be how Dallas is building its highways, but that would be a personal agenda on the part of the attacker. Dallas isn't the only city building mega-highway either. I've heard from a few places Philly is about to start construction on a huge multi-billion dollar project to widen one of their major highways to like 12 or 14 lanes with a new stack interchange. I know Seattle has a monster highway project going on as does San Fran. New Jersey has hired a consultant to look at the possibly of building buried high-speed limited access highways right underneath their existing ones. I don't think it could be the highways.