OG&E Tower

[soondoc]

Red Rover Red Rover- let's start a new topic on over! Lets start a new thread about the Producer's Co-op Cotton Mill and see if it can gain some steam and maybe grow some legs for people to take action. I have never started a thread so if someone could be so generous that would be great. I am tech challenged so could someone also find some really nice (ugly) pics of this place for all to see.

[kevinpate]

Take what action?

The owners of that location put it up for sale a few years back. The price per acre was intense as I recall, but it was there on the market. Still is as far as I know.
The present owners even bought land elsewhere to develop on their timetable.

So isn't all that is actually necessary is for folk who don't want property owners to use their property in the manner they have used it for decades to just step up and buy the land and then do with it as they choose as the new owner. Easy peasy ... provided one has the wallet for it. Sans the wallet for it, it's just griping about a private property owner doing what its done for ages.

[bchris02]

Red Rover Red Rover- let's start a new topic on over! Lets start a new thread about the Producer's Co-op Cotton Mill and see if it can gain some steam and maybe grow some legs for people to take action. I have never started a thread so if someone could be so generous that would be great. I am tech challenged so could someone also find some really nice (ugly) pics of this place for all to see.

I tried to start one but couldn't figure out how to do it. Maybe somebody who has the template code can do it.

[Jeepnokc]

[QUOTE=kevinpate;735665]Take what action?

The owners of that location put it up for sale a few years back. The price per acre was intense as I recall, but it was there on the market. Still is as far as I know.
The present owners even bought land elsewhere to develop on their timetable.

So isn't all that is actually necessary is for folk who don't want property owners to use their property in the manner they have used it for decades to just step up and buy the land and then do with it as they choose as the new owner. Easy peasy ... provided one has the wallet for it. Sans the wallet for it, it's just griping about a private property owner doing what its done for ages.[/QUOTE

It was on the market in 2010 for $120 million. The property consists of 43 acres so just shy of 3 million per acre. Pretty steep. However, I agree with Mark. This property owner has been there for decades doing the exact same thing. May seem like a steep price but considering they don't have to move and I am sure any move would require building a new facility, the price may be justified. It isn't like the property owner is just sitting on non productive property. It is a going concern making money and they have a specialized facility that they shouldn't lose money on just because someone thinks it distracts from the view or isn't the best use of the property.

When the State took over Bob Moore Ford on I240, they paid him enough where he could build the new dealership/facility around the corner as his facility wasn't that old when they bought it.

[Snowman]

Yes, the Hard Rock in Tulsa is definitely a menace. It is probably one of the most recognizable structures that anyone from out of town could identify. It looks nice, has a cool factor to it, brings in lots of entertainers, and you almost feel like you are not in Oklahoma. It is somewhat a destination for many from out of the area. It is responsible for quite a few jobs and has started a growth in that area with business and highway construction because of it- contributing to even more construction jobs.

Sorry, I am not buying that Casino menace story. I am by no means a fan of all these casinos but I think a Hard Rock with a 20-25 story hotel would be great in that spot. They could even link it to the river somehow. That Cotton Mill is one of the ugliest things I have ever seen in a big city and in a big pain in our side when it comes to growth. Could the city not make an offer and re-locate them elsewhere? Also, could they use the grounds of it being such an hindrance in neighboring properties that it hurts other land owners values because no one will want to build and develop around it. That would be the approach or angle I think the city should use. It shouldn't be hard to prove that nobody would want to build next to that eyesore and it costs them lots of money because of it. Pay them and re-locate them and do something great in that spot.

The Hard Rock in Tulsa is a pretty generic design style, take out the hotel tower and it looks like a regional mall.

As for relocation the Mill they are already in the process of moving to the old Firestone site, I believe they said it would take at least five years to do (a lot of which was permits) so but they might not actually make the move till they have a solid bid on the current site, I think they said this around the time MAPS3 was being voted on since that was one of the preferred sites for the convention center which would have been 2009.

[catch22]

The reality of this is, the Stage Center's only use for the past several years has been as a storm water retention facility.

[hoya]

Many of the arguments against saving Stage Center ("if you want to save it let's see you buy it. No? Then shut up") apply to leaving the Cotton Mill where it is. You want to see it leave? Buy the land and build something.

The Cotton Mill may be ugly as sin, but it's also unique and it is functional. A lot of cities have ugly things built into their urban fabric. I was in Seattle a few years ago and all the cranes and port facilities aren't exactly pretty. Industrial cities have big ugly factories easily visible from downtown. Massive rail yards are hideous. But all these are accepted as part of a city's economic life. Rather than being ashamed of the Cotton Mill, we should provide information on it to visitors. "This is the world's largest cotton mill. Over 2 million cottons are milled every day here. The seeds that they produce grow into beautiful cotton trees all over the world." Or whatever it does. It's ugly and it's industrial, but so what. I'm much more concerned with the miles of run down warehouses up and down I-40 as you approach downtown. "You are now passing through the scrapyard section of town. It continues for the next 12 miles."

[bchris02]

Many of the arguments against saving Stage Center ("if you want to save it let's see you buy it. No? Then shut up") apply to leaving the Cotton Mill where it is. You want to see it leave? Buy the land and build something.

The Cotton Mill may be ugly as sin, but it's also unique and it is functional. A lot of cities have ugly things built into their urban fabric. I was in Seattle a few years ago and all the cranes and port facilities aren't exactly pretty. Industrial cities have big ugly factories easily visible from downtown. Massive rail yards are hideous. But all these are accepted as part of a city's economic life. Rather than being ashamed of the Cotton Mill, we should provide information on it to visitors. "This is the world's largest cotton mill. Over 2 million cottons are milled every day here. The seeds that they produce grow into beautiful cotton trees all over the world." Or whatever it does. It's ugly and it's industrial, but so what. I'm much more concerned with the miles of run down warehouses up and down I-40 as you approach downtown. "You are now passing through the scrapyard section of town. It continues for the next 12 miles."

I am sure you are referring to the area south of the railroad tracks sandwiched between Reno and I-40 between I-235 and I-35 north. Short-term the city could put up a barrier wall to shield that area from view from I-40. That is quite common in a lot of other cities.

[hoya]

I am sure you are referring to the area south of the railroad tracks sandwiched between Reno and I-40 between I-235 and I-35 north. Short-term the city could put up a barrier wall to shield that area from view from I-40. That is quite common in a lot of other cities.

As well as the area from Western out to the Fairgrounds.

[kevinpate]

The reality of this is, the Stage Center's only use for the past several years has been as a storm water retention facility.

Sad, but true.

[kevinpate]

Just to add, if the ugly warehouses are functional and part of ongoing business concerns, like the cotton mill, unless someone is going to buy the property up and help cover relocation expenses as part of their purchase, those properties too ought to be left alone. A little grit that is producing honest work for local citizens, irrespective of the color of their collars, ain't nothing to be ashamed of nor anything to try and shut down just so something prettier can be inserted in the space. Ugly isn't always dysfunctional or undesirable.

[mkjeeves]

If we could just get all the Oklahoma City out of Oklahoma City we would have something!

[OKVision4U]

Before the I-40 Crosstown was moved, the co op had that separation point. Sorry, but it has been a drag on the city's progress for a long time.

Now, it is even placed in a more visible point from Bricktown / CBD / Crosswtown / The Oklahoma River ...it is nestled nicely in the middle of everything.

[bchris02]

If we could just get all the Oklahoma City out of Oklahoma City we would have something!

Actually getting the AMARILLO out of Oklahoma City would be a huge step forward.

Before the I-40 Crosstown was moved, the co op had that separation point. Sorry, but it has been a drag on the city's progress for a long time.

Now, it is even placed in a more visible point from Bricktown / CBD / Crosswtown / The Oklahoma River ...it is nestled nicely in the middle of everything.

Especially that it will now be a focal point along the new Boulevard. Sorry but I think it should be relocated.

[OKVision4U]

Do we really expect anyone to take OKC seriously when we have a COOP sitting next to The Peake? ...This should have been moved 20 years ago.

When the Thunder are playing, the networks never seam to get a "daytime" image of the COOP... OKC looks good at night, but only from the right angles. Let's help OKC and get this relocated IMMEDIATELY. Not 10 years, not 5 years, not even 2 years, but by 11/14. THis will let OKC go to the next level.

[AP]

As for relocation the Mill they are already in the process of moving to the old Firestone site, I believe they said it would take at least five years to do (a lot of which was permits) so but they might not actually make the move till they have a solid bid on the current site, I think they said this around the time MAPS3 was being voted on since that was one of the preferred sites for the convention center which would have been 2009.

Is this true? I had no idea they were in the process of moving.

[Of Sound Mind]

Do we really expect anyone to take OKC seriously when we have a COOP sitting next to The Peake? ...This should have been moved 20 years ago.

When the Thunder are playing, the networks never seam to get a "daytime" image of the COOP... OKC looks good at night, but only from the right angles. Let's help OKC and get this relocated IMMEDIATELY. Not 10 years, not 5 years, not even 2 years, but by 11/14. THis will let OKC go to the next level.

How much money will you be contributing to this goal?

[soondoc]

Do we really expect anyone to take OKC seriously when we have a COOP sitting next to The Peake? ...This should have been moved 20 years ago.

When the Thunder are playing, the networks never seam to get a "daytime" image of the COOP... OKC looks good at night, but only from the right angles. Let's help OKC and get this relocated IMMEDIATELY. Not 10 years, not 5 years, not even 2 years, but by 11/14. THis will let OKC go to the next level.

This needs to be brought up in Steve's chat and what is currently going on with this property. Perhaps he can shed some light on the status and if anyone can make some progress to get this eyesore go away. That land would prime for an amazing project or multiple projects connecting it to Bricktown/DT/CTS/Boulevard/River and Park.

[mkjeeves]

Is this true? I had no idea they were in the process of moving.

Looked it up yesterday. Oklahoma City seed mill mulls moving | News OK

I was at a City Council meeting a few years ago where a topic was the new school built on SW 15th Street and Council Rd. A rep for the mill was there speaking up about the mill's plans to move and how placing the school there might be a future issue for the school when the plant moves next door per their plans and the zoning.

[Rover]

And this has to do with the Stage Center Tower how?

[shawnw]

(I'm for the removal of the COOP, but questions remain)

Even if they moved tomorrow, who would be responsible to demo the site? Who would pay? Seems like the cost would be non-trivial due to the size and number of buildings. I suspect this is one of those rare times when people would prefer to have the site leveled even without a new owner (where nothing on that site is better than what is there now). If that is the case, do we lobby the city to expend money from the general fund to clear the site? Could the city even do that if the site didn't sell? What if the site doesn't sell (due to the crazy price they're demanding) and sits vacant for ten years?

[Bellaboo]

Do we really expect anyone to take OKC seriously when we have a COOP sitting next to The Peake? ...This should have been moved 20 years ago.

When the Thunder are playing, the networks never seam to get a "daytime" image of the COOP... OKC looks good at night, but only from the right angles. Let's help OKC and get this relocated IMMEDIATELY. Not 10 years, not 5 years, not even 2 years, but by 11/14. THis will let OKC go to the next level.

This is being worked on as we speak. The co op probably has it's own thread, but it's going to the old Dayton Tire plant. Part of the delay is that they asked 120 million for the site thinking it would sell for that. The last I remember is that they've brought the price down.

Again, as we sit on the sidelines, we can't demand and wish from our view that things happen now.
Remember the old saying ... wish in one hand and crap in the other and take note of which hand gets fullest the fastest ?

[Pete]

Please discuss the co-op on this thread (lots of photos and links to articles):

Producers Cooperative Oil Mill - OKCTalk

[Dubya61]

Here's an interesting thought... Among the OKC rich and powerful, I don't think any of them are preservationists.

Tom Ward. Aubrey McClendon and now Pete Delaney and Rainey Williams have certainly demonstrated they are the polar opposite. The Gaylords left downtown and built a suburban campus. David Green has shown zero interest in downtown (understandable given Hobby Lobby's needs) and it's too soon to tell about Harold Hamm, but I believe he was very interested in Stage Center at one time, and not to preserve it. Bill Cameron bought the old OPUBCO campus, Jeff Records fled downtown for I-44 and Broadway.

Also interesting: The campuses they built evoked old fashioned buildings. Chesapeake's campus has a lot of cherokee gothic feel to it (IMO). MidFirsts banks look like cozy little english manors.

[hoya]

Just to add, if the ugly warehouses are functional and part of ongoing business concerns, like the cotton mill, unless someone is going to buy the property up and help cover relocation expenses as part of their purchase, those properties too ought to be left alone. A little grit that is producing honest work for local citizens, irrespective of the color of their collars, ain't nothing to be ashamed of nor anything to try and shut down just so something prettier can be inserted in the space. Ugly isn't always dysfunctional or undesirable.

If you'll look above, you'll see I was arguing that the Cotton Mill isn't really that bad. So I understand that ugly isn't the worst thing in the world. But I do believe that scrapyards and cheap metal warehouses are far more detrimental to the city's main entryway than the Cotton Mill is. They don't have to be scrapped tomorrow, but the city should be looking for a way to relocate certain eyesores.