OG&E Tower

[s00nr1]

Scratch one more reason to go downtown.

Oh cmon now -- as if over the past several years Stage Center has given anyone warm fuzzies downtown. :/
Not saying I agree with its demolition (solely because of the fact I think Rainey Willliams' potential development will be a complete letdown), but to insinuate this was some amazing draw to the CBD is misguided at best.

[betts]

It gives me warm fuzzies. But, had there been some amazing development planned for the spot, I might have been sad but somewhat compensated by what was planned. The presentation today was full of "planned" and "projected". And the majority of the land will be occupied by a parking garage. No one but people in towers around it will be able to see its green roof. If that even happens. This plan is mediocre and pedestrian, IMO. We deserve better for losing a unique and irreplaceable part of downtown. If I were a multimillionaire, I would have saved the Stage Center and counted myself lucky to be able to do so.

[kevinpate]

Had court helping some folks with first world problems this morning.
Goodbye SC. Thanks for the memories, and know that part of me actually is sad I suck at lotto picks.

[HangryHippo]

Scratch one more reason to go downtown.

WTF? Were you a copper thief or some such raiding the SC after the flood?

[Dubya61]

The more I think this over, it really stinks like a back room deal of which the conclusion was known long before today's approval. I may be over-invested in tin foil, but with plenty of other lots out there and the stinking cheap deal that RW/OGE got, I have to wonder if this was a mercy killing to benefit the Stage Center's previous proprietors and RW is just the executioner.

[tomokc]

I'm told that the copper has already been stolen.

[s.hoff]

Is it possible that Rainey will demolish Stage Center and then sell the land to someone else and build his tower elsewhere? I know it isn't likely, but if he DID sell the land, would it be more profitable to sell it before or after demolition? Would the land be more valuable if it was already clear and ready to be built on?

[Paseofreak]

Most certainly more valuable to a developer cleared.

[Pete]

The land would be more valuable without having to deal with the uncertainty around Stage Center but this is all about OG&E and what they want, not Rainey Williams.

And OG&E really wants to be on this site and you can't blame them for wanting to be there.

[mkjeeves]

Oh cmon now -- as if over the past several years Stage Center has given anyone warm fuzzies downtown. :/
Not saying I agree with its demolition (solely because of the fact I think Rainey Willliams' potential development will be a complete letdown), but to insinuate this was some amazing draw to the CBD is misguided at best.

Amazing draw no. One less reason for me to go there though.

My list keeps getting shorter, not longer.

Business.
Occasional special event. (Like once a year.)
Art Museum.

and that's about it.

However, for an anecdote...

I had an art friend from Denver meet me in Tulsa about five years ago for the New Genre Arts Festival. After a couple of days of events scattered around Tulsa including at the Philbrook, we drove to OKC and spent a day before he flew home. He had never been here or to Tulsa before. I drove him around the city, we dropped in the art museum and had lunch at Tapwerks since he's a beer geek. We also parked at Stage Center, got out to look at the building. Of everything we did that week, it was the only place where in the middle of the visit he stopped, looked me in the eye and told me thanks for taking him to see it.

[Pete]

I think it's safe to say that by a huge majority, people are finding more and more reasons to go downtown, not less.

There are exceptions of course, but only exceptions.

[jccouger]

I can't believe there isn't more backlash that OGE is the main tenant, considering they are a monopoly and we have to pay them no matter what. And if you check your bill, there is a lot more than just a basic usage fee. We have to pay them even if we used 0 electricity.

We are effectively paying for this tower, on the most prime real estate in Oklahoma City. We are basically paying FOR the demolition. Absurd.

[ultimatesooner]

yes, another eyesore gone, now we need to get rid of the stupid gold dome

[Pete]

I can't believe there isn't more backlash that OGE is the main tenant, considering they are a monopoly and we have to pay them no matter what. And if you check your bill, there is a lot more than just a basic usage fee. We have to pay them even if we used 0 electricity.

We are effectively paying for this tower, on the most prime real estate in Oklahoma City. We are basically paying FOR the demolition. Absurd.

No! It's Rainey Williams not OG&E!!

[mkjeeves]

"What a wonderful building." said no one forever about what's getting ready to be in its place.

[BDP]

If we're all so opposed to anything unusual, how do you explain the success of efforts to save the Gold Dome at NW 23 and Classen, or for that matter the Milk Bottle a couple of blocks to the north.

Well, I wouldn't really categorize those things as unusual, really. Geodesic design is familiar to anyone who goes to Epcot Center and novelty structures like the Mile Bottle have kinda become Route 66s reason for being. I don't want to discount their historic value or architectural interest, especially on a city level, but they are not unfamiliar designs or concepts that are hard to find elsewhere. Stage Center was. They are unique to Oklahoma City, however, which is where their real contribution is made, imo. There are always exceptions for sure, but the score of historic demolition vs preservation is so lopsided its not even an arguable point. In fact, I'd be willing to wager that demolition in the core over the last 50 years still outnumbers new construction and renovation during that time. But this is just what Oklahoma City does. I think I linked to it earlier in this thread, but try and find the 3 volume set called "The Vanished Splendor", which is made up postcards and pictures of Oklahoma City, most of which has been demolished. Oklahoma City, both culturally and institutionally, has never really valued its architectural history or held on to many things that were unique even to itself. Things seem to be changing and developers who have chosen preservation and innovation seem to have been rewarded for doing so. However, city government and its affiliated bureaucratic agencies have really never stood in the way of demolition, and often encourages it. I mean, if few care about a building that served as the first state capitol building in Oklahoma City, who cares about a unique and weird looking community theater that is internationally respected, but locally despised? They ain't from here, right?

its fate was sealed, not in this meeting or any other recent event, but when there was no attempt made to incorporate its renovation and activation into the redesign of Myriad Botanical Gardens and construction of Devon Tower.

Its fate was sealed when it was built here:

yes, another eyesore gone, now we need to get rid of the stupid gold dome

[BDP]

The lesson for architects is that buildings must also be functional and affordable.

And, in Oklahoma City, they should look like something we've seen before.

[Just the facts]

And, in Oklahoma City, they should look like something we've seen before.

Vernacular architecture has a universal appeal.

[Jake]

Mixed feelings about this. I can see both sides to the issue. All I can do is hope for the best for the new building.

[LRSooner]

The demolition of Stage Center was a forgone conclusion, to me, that was not the biggest takeaway from today. In my opinion, it was a giant opportunity wasted that no one in the room questioned the actual project itself. It was promised to be "world class", but based on the plans, falls far short of that. It should've been brought up by someone, that if a new development is going to replace an "iconic" structure on such an important piece of real estate, why go with such a mediocre proposal? For all the reasons mentioned on this board about the sketchiness of the project, Williams should have been put to task for his lack of vision for such an important site. I know he can build what he wants once the permit was granted, but we could've received some answers or even pressed him for more specifics.

[OKVision4U]

If Rainey builds short, he will be leaving $$$ on the table. The building next to him is over $1B in value and he is worried about 14-16 stories, ( cost driven anxiety ).?

If I could give Rainey one piece of ( free ) advice is this: Short & ugly never sells. Tall & beautiful is always desired.

He shouldn't try to compete w/ Devon, but his goal should place him ahead of the others.

[zookeeper]

I can almost hear the jingle in the pockets.

No further comment.

[Paseofreak]

The demolition of Stage Center was a forgone conclusion, to me, that was not the biggest takeaway from today. In my opinion, it was a giant opportunity wasted that no one in the room questioned the actual project itself. It was promised to be "world class", but based on the plans, falls far short of that. It should've been brought up by someone, that if a new development is going to replace an "iconic" structure on such an important piece of real estate, why go with such a mediocre proposal? For all the reasons mentioned on this board about the sketchiness of the project, Williams should have been put to task for his lack of vision for such an important site. I know he can build what he wants once the permit was granted, but we could've received some answers or even pressed him for more specifics.

If you follow Steve's Twitter updates and refer to earlier posts in this thread, you'll see that the decision to approve or deny the permit is not to consider future plans for the property and the city's General Counsel reminded The Board of that during the proceedings.

[progressiveboy]

What amazes me is at the eleventh hour, not one person who was in favor of preserving SC was able to come up with a viable, cost effective solution to saving this structure. Just simply signing of petitions to save a crumbling, run down money pit. Not one person could come up with the $$$$$$ to save it. I guess the saying is true, "Put your money where your mouth is". I never had an infinity for the SC, as to me it is nothing but a hodge podge of corrugated metal and stained concrete that is not attractive or visually appealing. I guess "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I just don't see the connection to saving this building. Maybe perhaps, Rainey Williams final rendering and drawing will surprise us all!

[tomokc]

If Rainey builds short, he will be leaving $$$ on the table. The building next to him is over $1B in value and he is worried about 14-16 stories, ( cost driven anxiety ).?

If I could give Rainey one piece of ( free ) advice is this: Short & ugly never sells. Tall & beautiful is always desired.

He shouldn't try to compete w/ Devon, but his goal should place him ahead of the others.

Building big with spec space would turn this building into a competitive threat to what is built on the west parcel, and therefore lower it's potential sales price, and possibly the number of interested buyers.