OG&E Tower

[Spartan]

It's ridiculous and I'm losing more and more respect for Rainy with every new bit of news. This tower is a joke. It should at least be 25 stories and provide amazing street interaction AND compliment the Stage Center by honoring it in a way.

Alright, I'm finally joining this anti movement here. I thought we were getting two decent buildings. Apparently not so. We get two if someone wants to give RW a lot of money.

Looks like this is becoming downtown's Rainey day....ba dum pssh

Let me state my position: NO RAINEY YOU CANT TEAR IT DOWN TO FLIP THE RAZED SITE.

[CuatrodeMayo]

IIRC, the Board of Adjustment made the final decision regarding demolishing the buildings on the Sandridge site.

EDIT: it appears DDRC decisions are appealed to the Board of Adjustment: http://www.okc.gov/planning/downtown...020%202013.pdf

[Spartan]

IIRC, the Board of Adjustment made the final decision regarding demolishing the buildings on the Sandridge site.

They decided in favor though, ultimately. McDermid announced blood on his hands. Nothing for SR to appeal.

Te system is stacked for crap to get approved inevitably, in my experience.

[bchris02]

Alright, I'm finally joining this anti movement here. I thought we were getting two decent buildings. Apparently not so. We get two if someone wants to give RW a lot of money.

Looks like this is becoming downtown's Rainey day....ba dum pssh

Let me state my position: NO RAINEY YOU CANT TEAR IT DOWN TO FLIP THE RAZED SITE.

I don't trust Rainey not to give us a parking garage and a 7 story suburban-style office building before all is said and done. First this started out as between 30-40 stories, then "at least 20", then two buildings, one 14-16 and a second 10-12 stories. Now we are at one single 14-story building and things are still in planning stages. This deal isn't going to get any better after demolition.

Anybody ready to accept this as the final product?

[Plutonic Panda]

Alright, I'm finally joining this anti movement here. I thought we were getting two decent buildings. Apparently not so. We get two if someone wants to give RW a lot of money.

Looks like this is becoming downtown's Rainey day....ba dum pssh

Let me state my position: NO RAINEY YOU CANT TEAR IT DOWN TO FLIP THE RAZED SITE.

And let me say I want good street interaction as much as I want height. Funny enough, I actually fear this building will be too suburban as it is. If the conceptual renderings are underwhelming, just imagine what the actual ones are going to look like. Again, I am not asking for a super tall, just something that does SOMETHING for the skyline.

[CuatrodeMayo]

They decided in favor though, ultimately. McDermid announced blood on his hands. Nothing for SR to appeal.

Went back and looked. You're right.

[hoya]

As I said earlier, it's become quite clear that Rainey's plan is for a massive parking garage and everything else is secondary.

[bchris02]

As I said earlier, it's become quite clear that Rainey's plan is for a massive parking garage and everything else is secondary.

It's looking more and more like it. This is really quite depressing especially as much hype as there was surrounding this project. The Renaissance Hotel built in the late 90s was a better, more solid announcement than this is. It really wouldn't surprise me if after the demolition, the entire tower is scrapped and he moves forward with just the parking garage.

[bchris02]

And let me say I want good street interaction as much as I want height. Funny enough, I actually fear this building will be too suburban as it is. If the conceptual renderings are underwhelming, just imagine what the actual ones are going to look like. Again, I am not asking for a super tall, just something that does SOMETHING for the skyline.

Accounting for the further scaling-down of this project I am expecting, I think whatever poster said this belongs on NW Expressway or maybe even the Health Sciences area was spot on.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, if is built as the conceptual rendering is envisioned, then it would be alright downtown somewhere, maybe Midtown, Bricktown, perhaps on 23rd. St. or maybe the Farmers Market to kick start that area. I wish OG&E would build its own somewhere else and if they can't justify 25+ floors, then they shouldn't be building on a prime spot. Also, if they are in a building that can't have street interaction, then build in an office park... not on a public park.

[betts]

As I said earlier, it's become quite clear that Rainey's plan is for a massive parking garage and everything else is secondary.

What irony that would be. I wonder what Larry Nichols would think of adjacent to his Crown Jewels of downtown.

[Teo9969]

I hate to beat a horse to death, but anybody who has been expecting great things out of $100M was kidding themselves. Remember the main-street garage itself is $20M with little to no below ground work…so that leaves about $80M for everything else in the site plan…$80M seems like not quite enough even for just the 16 story tower, let alone an altogether different tower or other supposedly "world-class" aspects of the development.

That being said, if Rainey is going to make it through the demolition process and build OGE's new headquarters, I'm actually kind of relieved that he won't be developing the entire block…someone's going to need to save it from the relative let down it has become...

[David]

Huh. Well, so much for my optimism.

Maybe pigs'll fly and the demolition will be denied.

[bchris02]

Well, if is built as the conceptual rendering is envisioned, then it would be alright downtown somewhere, maybe Midtown, Bricktown, perhaps on 23rd. St. or maybe the Farmers Market to kick start that area. I wish OG&E would build its own somewhere else and if they can't justify 25+ floors, then they shouldn't be building on a prime spot. Also, if they are in a building that can't have street interaction, then build in an office park... not on a public park.

Right. I was disappointed in the height of the conceptual rendering but it, though minimal, was something I could half way support. As more and more gets scaled back or scrapped, the harder and harder it gets to support this.

[bchris02]

Interesting.

okcBIZ: News: Tower Talk

[hoya]

What irony that would be. I wonder what Larry Nichols would think of adjacent to his Crown Jewels of downtown.

Someone needs to get him involved. More than design review standards, social pressure will affect Rainey Williams. When people in his social circle start asking him about why his development sucks balls, and what the hell he thinks he's doing building such a rancid piece of crap, he'll reassess the design. Maybe sell it to someone else.

[pickles]

I hate to beat a horse to death, but anybody who has been expecting great things out of $100M was kidding themselves..

Yep.

[Richard at Remax]

The more I think of this I think this will happen. He is going to say he tried his best to get something done but it all fell through. Then flip the property and make a few million.

[bchris02]

The more I think of this I think this will happen. He is going to say he tried his best to get something done but it all fell through. Then flip the property and make a few million.

I was the first person who posted that possibility in this thread and everybody said I was just being extremely negative and glass half empty.

We all have to realize Rainey isn't building this for civic/community pride. It's about money and if Rainey can pave this into surface parking, flip it, and make a few million it will be a success as far as his pocketbook is concerned.

[tomokc]

Wasn't SC sold by the Oklahoma City Community Foundation? I wonder how they feel about the changes.

[metro]

Outstanding! I lived in Texas for several years. Dallas and Houston have their attributes, but OKC should absolutely not use them as development models. I have never fully understood the irrational allure that Dallas holds for many OKC-ers.

Really? This isn't an Oklahoma "phenomenon", don't you think this is the case with every smaller town or metro area compared to it's nearest mega-metro (Wichita and KC, Dayton and Cincinnati, Wichita Falls and Dallas, Greenville and Charlotte or Atlanta, Albuquerque and Denver, etc.) It's human nature for the sheeple masses, it's not an OKC issue.

[bchris02]

Really? This isn't an Oklahoma "phenomenon", don't you think this is the case with every smaller town or metro area compared to it's nearest mega-metro (Wichita and KC, Dayton and Cincinnati, Wichita Falls and Dallas, Greenville and Charlotte or Atlanta, Albuquerque and Denver, etc.) It's human nature for the sheeple masses, it's not an OKC issue.

Like.

When I lived in Little Rock, the Memphis envy was every bit as strong if not stronger than the Dallas envy here. It was more popular to go to Memphis on the weekend than it was to stay in Little Rock, at least for my age group. My understanding is that OKC was like that about 15 years ago with Dallas. If/when OKC approaches 1.5-2 million metro population, you will probably start to see less Dallas envy because this city, by that time, should offer enough services and amenities that regular trips to Dallas aren't as necessary. I would say that about the 1.5 million population mark or a little larger is about the place in a city's growth where the influence of its nearby larger city becomes less important.

[bradh]

As someone who spent a couple years living in DFW, I have zero desire to ever make the trip down there unless I absolutely have to, I've got everything I need here.

[metro]

They decided in favor though, ultimately. McDermid announced blood on his hands. Nothing for SR to appeal.

Te system is stacked for crap to get approved inevitably, in my experience.

What exactly is your experience with "the system" when it comes to approaching them with one of your projects?

[metro]

Someone needs to get him involved. More than design review standards, social pressure will affect Rainey Williams. When people in his social circle start asking him about why his development sucks balls, and what the hell he thinks he's doing building such a rancid piece of crap, he'll reassess the design. Maybe sell it to someone else.

Who's to say he's not already? Do you honestly think he didn't know about this before we did? I seriously doubt he was made aware the same time we were. Come on folks, these people live in a different world than you and I. That said, you're right, put social pressure on them to get better results. I too am disappointed, but I'm not for eminent domain, I'd rather see what the market demands. Now with that said, I think review committees can due diligence and demand better quality work, walkability, public use space, and street interaction but this nonsense of demanding so many floors is hogwash, wake up, we're not NYC or Chicago. Who's to say Nichols and others weight didn't already help sway this recommendation to deny the demolition permit? The best thing we can do is call/write city council members and let them know your feelings. All this sideline chatting without actions in the real world to those who vote on it, is pointless. I've made the Mayor and my council person (who happens to be the DT council person) know on several occasions, how many of you all have?