OG&E Tower

[bchris02]

Portland. Savannah. Charleston. DC. The whole state of Virginia. Any College Town, USA. We have tons of great human scale places.

Human-scale and height are not mutually exclusive. Manhattan is about as human-scale as you can get yet has some of the world's most amazing skyscrapers. I know people on this site are tired of me bringing it up, but downtown Louisville has a great balance between height and street interaction for a mid-sized city in my opinion.

The Stage Center Tower, at its current height of 14 stories could still fit in well with the direction downtown OKC is going if it has amazing ground level architecture, but I am simply saying that height does have importance.

[Plutonic Panda]

Having high standards shouldn't be confused with building tall skyscrapers. Look at the glass and concrete travesty that is Downtown Dallas and compare that to more vibrant, active urban places on the periphery of DTD.

You seem like just another butthurt kid that is actually jealous of Dallas but wants to dog on it every time you get the chance.

When I worked for my dad for 4 years, I would drive people from the airport to his car lot when they were renting a car. I drove hundreds if not thousands of people and we would talk and have cool conversations during the 15-30 minute drive(depending on traffic). A lot of times we would discuss the lack of mass transit here in OKC and such.... I talked to so many people from NYC, Chicago, and Philly and it is so funny how many of them said how awesome Dallas was. I never once heard a negative thing about Dallas but some of them said they didn't care for it, but was a cool city. The things I've heard about Cleveland though........(I won't even get into).

Keep bashing Texas though man, at every chance you get!

Literally every single thing you said is an opinion, so you have your right to that. I do agree OKC is becoming an amazing city, but we need major high-rise towers, IMO. Urban neighborhoods are great and I want them to flourish here. The Stage Center needs at least a 25 story building on it. 500-600ft. would be awesome and anything over that would just be sugar on top.

[Plutonic Panda]

No.... downtown Dallas really is a travesty.

Hahaha, I will make a thread just for you when I get time later Spartan. I seriously want to know why you hate Dallas so much. At first it was irritating, but now it is actually amusing to me. Just give me a day or two, I might even do it tonight.

[Plutonic Panda]

tall skyscrapers isn't everything but it does contribute to urban feel. And downtown dallas is not a travesty. Okc comes nowhere close when it comes to street-level restaurants/retail, beautification, and place making in the cbd. Could dt dallas be improved? Yes. Is it a perfect downtown? No, but okc has plenty it could learn from the built environment in dallas even today.

I agree though with dream big and realistically. Streetscape and placemaking is extremely important and that is where we should hold rainey williams to his word. We can't underestimate the impact tall buildings have though.

like!

[bluedogok]

I thought Dallas was this great, magical place until I actually moved there (at age 27) and figured out that in the real world of living everyday life it wasn't all that different than OKC. I have absolutely no desire to live in Dallas (or the entire metro area) again. Nice place to visit occasionally but no desire to live there again and I did have a few opportunities and offers to move back.

[Plutonic Panda]

Downtown Dallas is NOT something to aspire to. Bigger isn't better.

This is so simple a three year could figure this out- if you are looking for an urban metropolis, Dallas is NOT your city. Dallas is a great city for what it is and it is suburban oriented. Obviously people who are advocating for urbanizing everything are going to dog on Dallas, because every city HAS to have every building right up on the street or it sucks; that is a bit of an exaggeration but not far off.

I think Dallas has a good downtown, it is not perfect and could be improved, but I prefer it over Kansas City's any day of the week.

[Plutonic Panda]

I thought Dallas was this great, magical place until I actually moved there (at age 27) and figured out that in the real world of living everyday life it wasn't all that different than OKC. I have absolutely no desire to live in Dallas (or the entire metro area) again. Nice place to visit occasionally but no desire to live there again and I did have a few opportunities and offers to move back.

There is nothing special about Dallas. It more amenities and nicer high-end stores than the majority of cities has and has very high-end car dealers and such, but is just a city, like Chicago, Miami, Houston, Seattle etc.

This is extremely off topic though, but I wanted to point out the absurdity of Spartans constant bashing of Dallas.

[Plutonic Panda]

Why can't OKC be more like Paris? Everything in Paris is man-made. Are you saying French planners and engineers are better that American planners and engineers? If so, I might be inclined to agree with you.

Because it doesn't need to be. OKC needs to drive in its own direction and become a great city by setting its own path. Paris is a cool city, but OKC doesn't need to be as urban as Paris, imo.

The Stage Center tower doesn't really seem to be a building you would find in Paris anyways.

[Plutonic Panda]

Height gives the impression of a growing and prospering city. A city's skyline is a huge part of that city's image. Also, being in an urban canyon/crater creates a unique atmosphere. Imagine the Myriad Gardens at night, surrounding by well-lit, stylish skyscrapers on all four sides. That doesn't mean street interaction isn't important - it is, but a building can have BOTH. OKC in particular has a skyline that looks very peculiar to those who aren't used to seeing it, simply because the Devon tower dwarfs everything else. Just ONE more 30-40 story building would go a long ways to help out on that.

A lot of urbanists throw out they idea that European cities don't have skyscrapers yet they are amazing urban environments. That is completely true. However, OKC isn't a European city and never will be. OKC will never have cobblestone streets, barely wide enough to fit a horse carriage through, creating a canyon through 500+ year old low-rise buildings. That is Paris, it is NOT OKC.

Great post man!!!!!

[soonerguru]

We all want a nice skyline. But we have greater areas of concern if we want to improve our city. Hopefully we can address both.

But, to chime in, Dallas sucks.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well sir, it just matter of taste I suppose. I really like Dallas and think it is a great city. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I respect that. I--in all honesty--can not dis Cleveland as I have never visited; but I hope to one day. I really hope it is great city and want to say great things about it as I don't want to wish ill on any city.

[bchris02]

We all want a nice skyline. But we have greater areas of concern if we want to improve our city. Hopefully we can address both.

But, to chime in, Dallas sucks.

Here's one thing nobody has mentioned. I am sure we all want to improve the national perception of OKC, which justified or not, is many times unflattering. This matters because boomtowns are places where people WANT to live, and corporate relocations generally move to those places. More skyscrapers added to the skyline will go much farther towards addressing the city's image problem than a hundred buildings with great urban design principles because the skyline is what they will see on TV during Thunder games, in Forbes magazines (providing they update the image), etc. I am not saying skyline is everything, its absolutely not, but it does affect a place's image. No matter how much development there is, OKC will probably not be known as an urban metropolis a-la Portland or DC in our lifetimes. We need street-level urbanism for quality of life here, but we need skyscrapers for our image.

[ethansisson]

Keep bashing Texas though man, at every chance you get!

It's the Okie way, isn't it?

[Prunepicker]

I believe demolishing the asinine Stage Center and saying a tornado did it is
a very good plan of action. Everyone knows how unpredictable a tornado
can be. Say it happen in the dark of night without the slightest warning.
Maybe include something like, "the dog ate my homework". Anything.

It served it's purpose with dignity as public restroom but it became obsolete
in the 20's.

[Spartan]

I believe demolishing the asinine Stage Center and saying a tornado did it is
a very good plan of action. Everyone knows how unpredictable a tornado
can be. Say it happen in the dark of night without the slightest warning.
Maybe include something like, "the dog ate my homework". Anything.

It served it's purpose with dignity as public restroom but it became obsolete
in the 20's.

The 20s? I think you have the wrong building...

[Spartan]

You seem like just another butthurt kid that is actually jealous of Dallas but wants to dog on it every time you get the chance.

When I worked for my dad for 4 years, I would drive people from the airport to his car lot when they were renting a car. I drove hundreds if not thousands of people and we would talk and have cool conversations during the 15-30 minute drive(depending on traffic). A lot of times we would discuss the lack of mass transit here in OKC and such.... I talked to so many people from NYC, Chicago, and Philly and it is so funny how many of them said how awesome Dallas was. I never once heard a negative thing about Dallas but some of them said they didn't care for it, but was a cool city. The things I've heard about Cleveland though........(I won't even get into).

Keep bashing Texas though man, at every chance you get!

Literally every single thing you said is an opinion, so you have your right to that. I do agree OKC is becoming an amazing city, but we need major high-rise towers, IMO. Urban neighborhoods are great and I want them to flourish here. The Stage Center needs at least a 25 story building on it. 500-600ft. would be awesome and anything over that would just be sugar on top.

I lol'd. Hard. The typical stops.

And around the wheel we go.

[Bellaboo]

[QUOTE]

Because it doesn't need to be. OKC needs to drive in its own direction and become a great city by setting its own path. Paris is a cool city, but OKC doesn't need to be as urban as Paris, imo.

The Stage Center tower doesn't really seem to be a building you would find in Paris anyways.[/QUOTE]

Not true. Paris has a downtown district just a few miles East of the Eiffel Tower. It has several giant glass towers that resemble Devon or what is proposed for the SC site. I took some pictures of it this past September from the top of the Arch of Triumph.

[Urbanized]

I believe demolishing the asinine Stage Center and saying a tornado did it is
a very good plan of action. Everyone knows how unpredictable a tornado
can be. Say it happen in the dark of night without the slightest warning.
Maybe include something like, "the dog ate my homework". Anything.

It served it's purpose with dignity as public restroom but it became obsolete
in the 20's.

Good grief, man, just grab a sledgehammer already and go start beating on the place. We get it. You hate the Stage Center and everything it stands for. I'm guessing it stole your lunch money when you were a child or something. It's the the worst building in the history of buildings. It was probably really designed by Satan, not Johansen. You want it down NOW!! We get it!

You don't have anything to worry about. It will be down soon enough. Pretty much the only talk on here of NOT tearing it down is by people who want to use the demolition permit as a stick to make the developer build a taller building. Even the people who love the building for its architecture have almost universally come to terms with the fact that it is coming down.

This thread is about the NEW building being proposed for that site, not really a place to debate the architectural merits of the building about to be removed. But by all means, don't let that dissuade you from coming in every few posts and registering your contempt for Stage Center.

[Just the facts]

Paris developed the way it did over centuries, most of which was prior to the invention of the automobile or the ability to build skyscrapers.

So? History has to start at some point in time.

[Jim Kyle]

Paris developed the way it did over centuries, most of which was prior to the invention of the automobile or the ability to build skyscrapers.

If you really want to put this in perspective, just take a little drive over to Arkansas and prowl around, say, Fort Smith. It's no urban paradise or Big League City, but it DOES have history going back almost 200 years. So do many of the much smaller towns along the border. On our side of that border, though, we have very little that's more than 100 years old -- and we don't seem to value that tiny bit that we DO still have.

Some of the atmosphere that folk seem to be wanting, with their comparisons to the great cities of Europe, vanished irretrievably when we got rid of almost all OKC history (especially in the downtown area regardless of where you draw its borders). The first brick building in OKC went under the wrecking ball. So did the site where the state's constitution was drafted. And those are just a couple of examples.

There's no way that our new and shiny construction is going to replace the patina of actual age and history. All we can do is have the patience to wait for new history to be made here, and for a change, preserve and celebrate it.

BTW, does anyone remember where the discovery well for the famed OKC Oil Field was (it's not there any more, but if you search you can find a plaque marking the spot)? Or even remember WHEN that happened? We do have "promotable" history in these parts, if anyone is interested enough to publicize it...

[heyerdahl]

Here's something you can go to if you want to understand the term 'human scale' before you use it again.

ULI Oklahoma: Reception Honoring Leslie Batchelor & Film "The Human Scale" - ULI Oklahoma

[Bellaboo]

So? History has to start at some point in time.

History in Oklahoma for me started about 12,000 years ago with the Paleo indians.

[Plutonic Panda]

I lol'd. Hard. The typical stops.

And around the wheel we go.

alright

[zookeeper]

History in Oklahoma for me started about 12,000 years ago with the Paleo indians.

Sometimes it's hard to fathom what all has happened on this land we call Oklahoma through the ages. Sometimes we forget it didn't suddenly pop-up in 1889.

[jccouger]

Dallas is one of the most successful cities in the world during the last decade. Anybody making claims that Dallas is any sort of failure has 0 credibility when discussing it. Oklahoma City actually owes a decent amount of its success due to its close proximity to Dallas.

Also, We also aren't a European city. In fact, we aren't ANY other city. Sure, we can take cues from other cities and apply some of the successes of those cities but striving to be like any specific city entirely is just outright ridiculous. Learn to love OKC for what it can uniquely and organically become, or GTFO.

----

I walked around the Myriad Gardens and stood at the Northwest corner and tried to imagine what this new tower will look and feel like once complete. First off, it was hard letting go of the stage center which actually surprised me. I didn't think I was that emotionally tied to it but it is a really unique structure and it makes an impression on you. But past that, this new tower won't be AS BAD as I originally thought either. It will create a decent wall along the Westnorth corner, and if there are shops along ground level it will be pretty cool. Still absolutely HATE the fact the view down California will be blocked. This fact is starting to irk me more so then how short the tower will be. But another point on height, it won't be that short either. 14 stories will still make you feel like you are "in downtown". You just won't have to tilt your head back to see the top of it. From far away though, it will still be short. Especially right next to Devon.


Side note**** the Myriad Gardens are absolutely dreadful. Plants are dead everywhere (I know its been cold, but come on.....) and the whole place is just not maintained at all. At least 90% of all the fish are dead or dying. It is really a disaster at this point.