OG&E Tower

[Bellaboo]

Why are you so okay with being mediocre ( feasible, justified = mediocre) ? The 60 story thing came from Steve...And Pete said of course he'd rather have a 60 story than three 20 stories.

Welcome to the New Oklahoma City, where citizens care and we are tired of run of the mil mediocrity, over promises and underwhelming deliveries.

Why do people get on here if you cant handle opinion?!? Obviously this forum will have little to nothing to do with the project or how its handled. This is a place for free thinking and open discussion.

Steve gave the singular 60 story as an example compared to getting multiple smaller buildings. If you go back a few years, the first noise that came out from the construction industry was a 40 story tower. As it turned out, that was a proposal fror OG&E and Enogex/CNP combined. Well, that fell through because of the seperation required for the MLP. So what we now have is reality, from what was first proposed to what is now requested. The project changed and what's been presented is for real.

I'm not all for smaller towers, my guess was in the 28 - 32 floor range, but they (the people in charge) decided to go a different route.

Personally, I don't think this new proposal is mediocre in the least. It may be far from perfect, but it's much better than the dead zone that currently exist.

[catch22]

With land so readily available, it doesn't make economic sense for 99% of developers to go vertical unless a single tenant needs that much space (Devon) or they want to make a statement (Devon).

Use up the space in the CBD, where it makes economic sense to get as much out of a single parcel, and you will get more impressive developments.

[OKVision4U]

I get it, we can put a giant oil derrick next to the Oklahoma River, put a wind turbine on top of it, and then run a natural gas pipe on top of the turbine and have an eternal flame burning 24/7.

Now if that wouldn't be a cobbled up laughing stock of a symbol.....

Bella "honey boo boo" , I was not thinking of one like that. More in the lines of the Anara Tower design by The Atkins Group.

[shawnw]

+++++++++++++++++++

(that was for catch)

[Steve]

As I read some of this discussion about height, I get a bit of deja vu... and then I remember why - the reaction to news the Devon tower was going to be 50 instead of 54 stories high:

Originally Posted by andimthomas
This might sound ungreatful and all, but I think they should just move their headquarters to Houston if they're just going to keep letting us down. You don't get the entire population excited for something that hasn't happened in awhile, then take it all back. I won't be surprised if they drop the height again before construction starts. Sooner or later- this building will just look the same as the rest of downtown OKC. Short and fat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder
Now it is 850?! That's it. I don't want it anymore. The final height will be 300.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronronnie1
WOW - I just read Steve's confirmation that the height has AGAIN been chopped down to 850 feet. Tomorrow it'll be 790 feet, and by Monday it'll be just twenty feet shy of Chase tower.

Ugh - I'm over it. I don't give a sh!t if they build it or not.

[OkieNate]

Steve gave the singular 60 story as an example compared to getting multiple smaller buildings. If you go back a few years, the first noise that came out from the construction industry was a 40 story tower. As it turned out, that was a proposal fror OG&E and Enogex/CNP combined. Well, that fell through because of the seperation required for the MLP. So what we now have is reality, from what was first proposed to what is now requested. The project changed and what's been presented is for real.

I'm not all for smaller towers, my guess was in the 28 - 32 floor range, but they (the people in charge) decided to go a different route.

Personally, I don't think this new proposal is mediocre in the least. It may be far from perfect, but it's much better than the dead zone that currently exist.

As I understand it Enable/Enogex will still share the space in Leadership Square. Please correct me/fill me in if not true. Pete also mentioned OG&E will keep their old building and bring the scattered OG&E employees into the new digs. Again if this is off please correct me. And according to Steve the 40 story tower is still in the works (Bank of America site).

And your last comment is something that just bugs the crap out of me, and its not just you so this is not a personal attack whatsoever, but better does not equal best, and for this site we need best.

[Bellaboo]

[B]Bella "honey boo boo" [/B], I was not thinking of one like that. More in the lines of the Anara Tower design by The Atkins Group.

Now this makes me laugh LOL.... 'Bellaboo' is my dogs (Rhodesion Ridgeback) name.

[PhiAlpha]

Then we have no reason to trust a word Rainey Williams says or have any faith in his private project, for a legal monopoly. What he has presented to us is a CONCEPTUAL RENDERING, which means its a figment of his imagination. How does he even have the audacity to ask to demolish stage center without a concrete plan, regardless of height or lack there of. The only thing we know he wants to build is a massive parking garage(which the city does need) with an average to nice mid-rise. A great addition to the urban core but not on the stage center site. The second building is a concept of a concept that he just put on the rendering to try and fool the masses.

Maybe it is unfair to compare him to what Devon did, but Devon set the bar extremely high and if he puts something half-ass on the stage center site Devon will expose it more than any other property in the city.

Yeah it's completely unfair to compare what RW is trying to do to Devon... they paid $700 million for that tower in cash with plenty left over. That's not something every private developer downtown is going to be able to do.

[Plutonic Panda]

As long as it's at least 30 stories I am all in.

agreed, I would even be moderately satisfied with 25 stories, but 30 would be much better

[CuatrodeMayo]

As I read some of this discussion about height, I get a bit of deja vu... and then I remember why - the reaction to news the Devon tower was going to be 50 instead of 54 stories high:

Originally Posted by andimthomas
This might sound ungreatful and all, but I think they should just move their headquarters to Houston if they're just going to keep letting us down. You don't get the entire population excited for something that hasn't happened in awhile, then take it all back. I won't be surprised if they drop the height again before construction starts. Sooner or later- this building will just look the same as the rest of downtown OKC. Short and fat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder
Now it is 850?! That's it. I don't want it anymore. The final height will be 300.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronronnie1
WOW - I just read Steve's confirmation that the height has AGAIN been chopped down to 850 feet. Tomorrow it'll be 790 feet, and by Monday it'll be just twenty feet shy of Chase tower.

Ugh - I'm over it. I don't give a sh!t if they build it or not.

I'm not sure that is a completely fair comparison. Two of those three were the most dramatic and ridiculous posters ever to grace this site.

[PhiAlpha]

As I read some of this discussion about height, I get a bit of deja vu... and then I remember why - the reaction to news the Devon tower was going to be 50 instead of 54 stories high:

Originally Posted by andimthomas
This might sound ungreatful and all, but I think they should just move their headquarters to Houston if they're just going to keep letting us down. You don't get the entire population excited for something that hasn't happened in awhile, then take it all back. I won't be surprised if they drop the height again before construction starts. Sooner or later- this building will just look the same as the rest of downtown OKC. Short and fat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder
Now it is 850?! That's it. I don't want it anymore. The final height will be 300.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronronnie1
WOW - I just read Steve's confirmation that the height has AGAIN been chopped down to 850 feet. Tomorrow it'll be 790 feet, and by Monday it'll be just twenty feet shy of Chase tower.

Ugh - I'm over it. I don't give a sh!t if they build it or not.

Wow, I had forgotten how stupid that got...hilarious.

[Plutonic Panda]

There have been real attempts to save SC. It just hasn't worked.

Also, being from a large city, I am a huge fan of skyscrapers. Always have been. But skyscrapers do not make a world-class city. No one here can argue that Washington DC isn't a world class city (no skyscrapers!). There are other world-class cities that lack very many if they have any skyscrapers.

BTW before the early 90's, Philadelphia (where I'm from) couldn't have skyscrapers taller than about 540 feet due to a law about them being taller than city hall (Penn's statue's hat), but no one here would have knocked the stature of Philly in the world, then or now.

Again I love skyscrapers, and the taller the better. But with minor exception (e.g. Empire State, space needle, etc), those buildings aren't going to make or break your city in peoples memories. Their experience on your streets on the other hand, will very much make an impression.

dc is no just any city. It is the capital for the strongest nation in the world, of course it will be a world class, if OKC were the Capitol of the us, it to, would be world class.

[Plutonic Panda]

I would love to see this building her in OKC, just. Not on the Stage Center site.

As I've stated before, I really want to become a developer, so maybe one day I'll learn things I didn't know that really affects these sorts if deals and realize how lucky we were to have the Devon Tower this early on in OKCs boom, but for now, it would really be nice to know why Rainy Williams picked this site to build a low height tower when there tons of other places to put this on.

I am extremely excited for this development, just disappointed where it is going to go.

[hoya]

While I'd love a 60 story tower, I don't think it's a requirement. However I also don't think I'm unreasonable at all with believing that the city should have a say in how property in the downtown area is developed. I want Rainey Williams to build something that is economically viable. However I think this is one of the most valuable blocks downtown as far as a public space goes. This block is made significantly more valuable by the presence of the Myriad Gardens right across the street.

Someone's earlier comment about Christmas presents is perfect. It's like I say to you "Dude you're gonna absolutely love what I got you for Christmas. It's totally amazing and your jaw is gonna drop." And you get all excited about it for 6 months because I told you back in June, and then when you open it, it's a fairly nice pair of wool socks. And I say "You love it right? World class, man. World class."

There are a lot of things RW can do with this same property rather than turn it into a giant parking garage with a small midrise attached. A tower half the width and twice the height would certainly be visually more impressive. But even if it's not significantly tall, changing the street interaction and making it not look like a full-block parking garage would be a huge improvement. Not cutting off California is also a must.

We as a city only have one chance to do this right, and RW has been sending a lot of signals that they're going to do it wrong. There are a lot of places within a block or two of this location where the renderings would be fine. But not right here.

[OkieNate]

As I read some of this discussion about height, I get a bit of deja vu... and then I remember why - the reaction to news the Devon tower was going to be 50 instead of 54 stories high:

Originally Posted by andimthomas
This might sound ungreatful and all, but I think they should just move their headquarters to Houston if they're just going to keep letting us down. You don't get the entire population excited for something that hasn't happened in awhile, then take it all back. I won't be surprised if they drop the height again before construction starts. Sooner or later- this building will just look the same as the rest of downtown OKC. Short and fat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder
Now it is 850?! That's it. I don't want it anymore. The final height will be 300.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronronnie1
WOW - I just read Steve's confirmation that the height has AGAIN been chopped down to 850 feet. Tomorrow it'll be 790 feet, and by Monday it'll be just twenty feet shy of Chase tower.

Ugh - I'm over it. I don't give a sh!t if they build it or not.

Not to mention Devon was replacing a parking garage...

I think Rainey and Steve have a personal relationship so i get why he is being so protective but for a professional journalist to get on a public forum and troll, when people only want whats BEST for this city is laughable.

[PhiAlpha]

Not to mention Devon was replacing a parking garage...

I think Rainey and Steve have a personal relationship so i get why he is being so protective but for a professional journalist to get on a public forum and troll, when people only want whats BEST for this city is laughable.

Dude are you serious? You're losing some major credibility here, I've not seen anything from Steve that would be considered "trolling". He seems to be taking the position that a lot of us are that some of the comments here are ridiculous given what we know right now (and the fact that this project is far from as awful as some are acting like it is). That last post you reference is some perspective based on past experience.

I don't think he should be able to tear down the Stage Center without a concrete plan, but I can honestly say that I don't really care one way or the other. He isn't going to knock it down only to build a parking garage.

And everybody here wants what is best for the city, no one more than Steve...likely he knows more than you do about this project and thinks whatever is coming is going to be best or at least a major improvment for OKC

[soondoc]

I get it, we can put a giant oil derrick next to the Oklahoma River, put a wind turbine on top of it, and then run a natural gas pipe on top of the turbine and have an eternal flame burning 24/7.

Now if that wouldn't be a cobbled up laughing stock of a symbol.....

Bellaboo- aren't you just a big bundle of joy and such a positive person! You sir are exactly what is wrong with this city for far too many years. You are a negative nanny that just can't appreciate the fact that many of us want more for this city. OKC is really making great strides but could be so much more with the right decisions. You need to really quite being so negative because living that way just can't be healthy. Maybe you were the kid that was content on just being on the team rather than out playing, or maybe you got mad at the starters for excelling while you were on the outside looking in. Live and dream a little man, be positive and demand the best of our city even if you don't see it in yourself.

[Pete]

Okay, let's please tone down the sarcasm and hostility.

Please express your opinions respectfully and there is never a reason to get personal with anyone here.

(Not picking on any one person, just the general direction of this thread).


Thanks.

[Steve]

Not to mention Devon was replacing a parking garage...

I think Rainey and Steve have a personal relationship so i get why he is being so protective but for a professional journalist to get on a public forum and troll, when people only want whats BEST for this city is laughable.

I'm not trolling. I am questioning the obsession with height. I have NO personal relationship with Rainey Williams. And it's amazing that nobody is catching on to what I am reminding again and again... will DDRC approve demolition of Stage Center without really knowing what Williams' building will look like?

[Pete]

... will DDRC approve demolition of Stage Center without really knowing what Williams' building will look like?

I hope not.

It's a bad idea in general but particularly when there is something of value (to many, but not all) on the property.

[BillyOcean]

^^^^

I keep wondering why Steve keeps sticking up for RW as well. Maybe he feels that he is partly to blame for the high expectations (adding the stories together versus seperate buildings). That is an honest mistake/misunderstanding that any of us could have made. Either way, we have not seen the true renderings so people should not freak out just yet, BUT RW does not deserve any benefits of the doubt on this project as we barely know who he is or what his previous works are. All we know is that he bought BOK tower and made minimal aesthetic changes as far as I can tell. Nothing was done to make BOK stand out from previous ownership. His perceived lack of knowledge (from my vantage point) on how to execute this large of project from the ground up is what makes me the most skeptical. I hope I am proven way off base....

[Pete]

As has been mentioned before, he is asking to demo the building right away but not planning to break ground until 2015.

The longer between those two activities the greater likelihood for a project to come off the rails or be scaled back. They almost never get better or grow in that interim period.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

As I read some of this discussion about height, I get a bit of deja vu... and then I remember why - the reaction to news the Devon tower was going to be 50 instead of 54 stories high:

Originally Posted by andimthomas
This might sound ungreatful and all, but I think they should just move their headquarters to Houston if they're just going to keep letting us down. You don't get the entire population excited for something that hasn't happened in awhile, then take it all back. I won't be surprised if they drop the height again before construction starts. Sooner or later- this building will just look the same as the rest of downtown OKC. Short and fat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder
Now it is 850?! That's it. I don't want it anymore. The final height will be 300.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronronnie1
WOW - I just read Steve's confirmation that the height has AGAIN been chopped down to 850 feet. Tomorrow it'll be 790 feet, and by Monday it'll be just twenty feet shy of Chase tower.

Ugh - I'm over it. I don't give a sh!t if they build it or not.

Nah. Like Cuatro said...Those were some posters that lived for hyperbole. Just like many in here. I think that a lot of us are cautiously optimistic (I know I am) about this whole deal and just aren't vocal about it.

I just don't post much in here because I don't know enough to comment intelligently other than saying "I LIKE THIS" when I saw that design. I don't care what a lot of people say. I like the current concept. I don't care about height...And besides...If you build a really tall tower, wouldn't it blot the sun from the sky for people hanging out at the Myriad Botanical Gardens for most of the day?

[Steve]

I am not sticking up for Williams. I am questioning the mob sense of entitlement for a higher tower (promised a skyscraper?). This is a typical response for when I challenge the majority on this site - it's happened before with transit. You don't like it, so then the accusations start of personal relationships, bias, etc.
As for BOK - Pete tells you Williams made minimal aesthetic changes, what I saw differs from Pete's conclusion. I've been in the building quite a bit over the years and saw how run down it was prior to Williams' improvements.
The high expectations were set, ultimately, by participants on this site.

[Richard at Remax]

Just curious why even release a conceptual drawing then? Only one could hope it was for some kind of feedback...