OG&E Tower

[David]

No one promised you anything.

This x1000. A comment to a reporter does not count as a binding commitment.

[bchris02]

It's true that nobody promised a skyscraper, all of the indications were pointing to this being a major, skyline-altering announcement so it's a letdown that it's turned out to only be a 14-story mid-rise. Maybe when the official announcement comes out, we will all be surprised by a third tower where the green space is. If what is currently shown though is built, though it's not a bad development it's still underwhelming compared to expectations. Steve has been speaking of a second mystery tower so maybe that one will be tall enough to help balance the skyline.

[kevinpate]

We demand.
We are losing.
We are being cheated.

Gee, maybe some folk who feel so dang strong on this ought to pony up the purchase price and cover expenses to date and at least some small level of profit and then show the purchaser where to catch a plane out of town? Would be one whale of a nicer send off than the barn burning pitch forking wailing and grinding of teeth that is presently going on.

And I am sorry, but whatever SC once was, it's an abandoned rotting corpse of a building now, one that no one was willing to get on board the train to save in any meaningful way, not even when someone else was willing to drive the train for them.

Demand. Cheated. Losing.

My old tired arse. It's been 3 years since the last time SC was shut down. It's well beyond time to demand others spend their funds in ways no one else is willing to tackle.

Let. it.go.already.

[OKVision4U]

Again. As Steve has pointed out numerous times, this is not the design. Perhaps people should put away the pitchforks until the actual design rendering is released.

Guru, they are not using "pitchforks", but Flashlights that shed light on this position of (Small Thinking).

[Paseofreak]

We demand.
We are losing.
We are being cheated.

Gee, maybe some folk who feel so dang strong on this ought to pony up the purchase price and cover expenses to date and at least some small level of profit and then show the purchaser where to catch a plane out of town? Would be one whale of a nicer send off than the barn burning pitch forking wailing and grinding of teeth that is presently going on.

And I am sorry, but whatever SC once was, it's an abandoned rotting corpse of a building now, one that no one was willing to get on board the train to save in any meaningful way, not even when someone else was willing to drive the train for them.

Demand. Cheated. Losing.

My old tired arse. It's been 3 years since the last time SC was shut down. It's well beyond time to demand others spend their funds in ways no one else is willing to tackle.

Let. it.go.already.

Precisely!!!

[JAW]

It's sad how we went from 2 years of excitement and anticipation to a total let down. Lets just be honest, these 2 buildings on this site do nothing for our skyline and does not do this prime piece of property justice. We need to demand a tower of at least 28-30 stories. This would put the tower around 510-530 feet. If they just took the renderings and instead of making it so wide, use that to go vertical about 15 more stories that would look great. As for the other tower planned, it could be used for commercial, residential and shopping and could be 18-20 stories. They could be placed in a way that would mirror each other and this would look great and balance out our very flawed skyline.

Listen, we were promised a new skyscraper for our downtown and this is just an average mid rise that and city or suburb in the country could throw up. If this was going somewhere else in downtown as is then fine, but ABSOLUTELY not at this prime location. We are getting cheated in every way possible by doing so. We lose by tearing down an iconic structure only to gain a better than average mid rise that does NOTHING to balance out or add to our skyline. Having an impressive skyline is important and like I said earlier, perception does become reality when it comes to people seeing our city and that it is booming. Companies wanting to relocate see this as well and it is a sign of growth and vitality. I am so, so sick of OKC just doing the bare minimum because it's better than what was done in the past. We need to dream big, think big, and become big time. I promise you, Austin, Charlotte, Nashville, etc. don't have small time minimum standards. People see what's going on there because they have big aspirations and go all out. People see that and it becomes infectious and word spreads and people want to be a part of it and see what its all about.

Flood whoever with letters, demand bricktown, downtown, core to shore, boulevard, and central park are done in a way that are second to none and world class. We don't want regrets later of what could have been like lower bricktown. Lets draw attention around the country for all the right reasons and wow people when they come here and give them a reason to want to keep coming or move here!

OKC has multiple needs in order to jump up or surpass competitive and comparative cities such as Nashville, Austin, Indianopolis, KC, etc:

1) Visual landmarks--skyline and street level--that help redefine OKC to the outside world. The skyline is one of the few things outsiders see to judge a city. OKC needs something akin to the Gateway Arch, Space Needle, Transamerica Pyramid, that automatically catapults OKC to near the front of the class of skylines of metro areas 2-3 times its size. When it comes to street level landmarks, the Stage Center WAS that--world known, albeit controversial, but representative of a certain artistic flavor. When we heard "architecturally significant", I--and I believe many others undewhelmed by this project--assumed the new building would be a landmark in its own right (vertical) to replace the dilapidated street level landmark. This project is not it. It may be architecturally significant but not in the common colloquial usage of the term, thus moving the goalposts for what is "significant." Like telling someone, "Hey, I got you a great present for Christmas" and the present is the best pair of socks on the market.

2) More skyscrapers between 400 and 700 feet, of any shape, whether a boring box tower or something a little more ambitious. Which, again, this project does not address.

3) Always need more and better entertainment options, for locals and visitors.

4) A better urban environment, which this project DOES address. We need projects like this in the OKC area, which give us the street interaction and density to improve the day-to-day experience of living or visiting OKC. This would be an excellent (and necessary) project in about 15 other places in the downtown area.

Which therein lies the tension between 1 and 4. This project answers one need while sacrificing an existing landmark asset and at the expense of the hope of something "architecturally significant."

This is what I would do, and I understand there may be financial constraints involved, but I'd like to retain the bottom 2-3 levels of the project, convert the two buildings into one 500+ foot tower, and rebuild a replica of the Stage Center (even if it can't be the exact size to make it fit) in the green space above the fourth floor where there's a park and pool. This new version would become a museum for avante-garde architecture, or museum of architectural disasters, or museum of aborted architectural projects, or all of the above, and host model replicas of such buildings possibly to-scale in a model "city" in the main room. I understand that may take up almost all of the rooftop sans the doubled-up tower, but I think it would be worth it more than a generic pool and park, when there will be a major Central park within walking distance a few years later. That way all 4 needs are addressed in one project--the landmark Stage Center is preserved (in a way), the skyline is improved with a taller tower, the new Stage Center museum would increase the entertainment options for locals and tourists, and the street level interaction of the project would be retained.

[OKVision4U]

OKC has multiple needs in order to jump up or surpass competitive and comparative cities such as Nashville, Austin, Indianopolis, KC, etc:

1) Visual landmarks--skyline and street level--that help redefine OKC to the outside world. The skyline is one of the few things outsiders see to judge a city. OKC needs something akin to the Gateway Arch, Space Needle, Transamerica Pyramid, that automatically catapults OKC to near the front of the class of skylines of metro areas 2-3 times its size. When it comes to street level landmarks, the Stage Center WAS that--world known, albeit controversial, but representative of a certain artistic flavor. When we heard "architecturally significant", I--and I believe many others undewhelmed by this project--assumed the new building would be a landmark in its own right (vertical) to replace the dilapidated street level landmark. This project is not it. It may be architecturally significant but not in the common colloquial usage of the term, thus moving the goalposts for what is "significant." Like telling someone, "Hey, I got you a great present for Christmas" and the present is the best pair of socks on the market.

2) More skyscrapers between 400 and 700 feet, of any shape, whether a boring box tower or something a little more ambitious. Which, again, this project does not address.

3) Always need more and better entertainment options, for locals and visitors.

4) A better urban environment, which this project DOES address. We need projects like this in the OKC area, which give us the street interaction and density to improve the day-to-day experience of living or visiting OKC. This would be an excellent (and necessary) project in about 15 other places in the downtown area.

Which therein lies the tension between 1 and 4. This project answers one need while sacrificing an existing landmark asset and at the expense of the hope of something "architecturally significant."

This is what I would do, and I understand there may be financial constraints involved, but I'd like to retain the bottom 2-3 levels of the project, convert the two buildings into one 500+ foot tower, and rebuild a replica of the Stage Center (even if it can't be the exact size to make it fit) in the green space above the fourth floor where there's a park and pool. This new version would become a museum for avante-garde architecture, or museum of architectural disasters, or museum of aborted architectural projects, or all of the above, and host model replicas of such buildings possibly to-scale in a model "city" in the main room. I understand that may take up almost all of the rooftop sans the doubled-up tower, but I think it would be worth it more than a generic pool and park, when there will be a major Central park within walking distance a few years later. That way all 4 needs are addressed in one project--the landmark Stage Center is preserved (in a way), the skyline is improved with a taller tower, the new Stage Center museum would increase the entertainment options for locals and tourists, and the street level interaction of the project would be retained.

+1 ...get Raney that CO-signer and lets get this project going. This is a great idea w/ the SC.

[PWitty]

^^ I'm sorry, but I quit reading after number one. I'm from KC, and I had NEVER EVEN HEARD of the SC before I joined this forum. It is not a world class symbol for the city. There is no way that the average person across the US knows what the SC is/was, if nobody in KC (a regional city) knows.

Second, I agree with the above posters about laying off of RW. He mentioned in a conversation with a reporter that he wanted to build something world class that would make OKC citizens proud. He didn't hold a conference and brag about how monumental his proposal was going to be. You all are the ones who hyped it up to the point that pretty much anything he revealed would be disappointing.

[OkieNate]

This x1000. A comment to a reporter does not count as a binding commitment.

Then we have no reason to trust a word Rainey Williams says or have any faith in his private project, for a legal monopoly. What he has presented to us is a CONCEPTUAL RENDERING, which means its a figment of his imagination. How does he even have the audacity to ask to demolish stage center without a concrete plan, regardless of height or lack there of. The only thing we know he wants to build is a massive parking garage(which the city does need) with an average to nice mid-rise. A great addition to the urban core but not on the stage center site. The second building is a concept of a concept that he just put on the rendering to try and fool the masses.

Maybe it is unfair to compare him to what Devon did, but Devon set the bar extremely high and if he puts something half-ass on the stage center site Devon will expose it more than any other property in the city.

[OKCRT]

+1 ...get Raney that CO-signer and lets get this project going. This is a great idea w/ the SC.

As long as it's at least 30 stories I am all in.

[Bellaboo]

+1 ...get Raney that CO-signer and lets get this project going. This is a great idea w/ the SC.

Ever thought that OG&E may require to be the only tenant ?

[OkieNate]

We demand.
We are losing.
We are being cheated.

Gee, maybe some folk who feel so dang strong on this ought to pony up the purchase price and cover expenses to date and at least some small level of profit and then show the purchaser where to catch a plane out of town? Would be one whale of a nicer send off than the barn burning pitch forking wailing and grinding of teeth that is presently going on.

And I am sorry, but whatever SC once was, it's an abandoned rotting corpse of a building now, one that no one was willing to get on board the train to save in any meaningful way, not even when someone else was willing to drive the train for them.

Demand. Cheated. Losing.

My old tired arse. It's been 3 years since the last time SC was shut down. It's well beyond time to demand others spend their funds in ways no one else is willing to tackle.

Let. it.go.already.

You are a very sensitive and short sighted thinker to be so offended by others thoughts on a piece of real estate. NO ONE ON HERE HAS MADE ANY REAL ATTEMPT TO RALLY TO SAVE STAGE CENTER, it is the REAL ESTATE it is on. Telling people to let it go on a public forum is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as a developer using a conceptual rendering to demolish (whether you love it or hate it) an OKC landmark.

[Rover]

The idea that anybody OWES ANYBODY on this forum ANY explanation or has to meet the development standard professed by a bunch of amateurs who have never developed anything is just laughable. This is a private development which must meet standards and criteria outlined by the city and any other governing body. Once those standards are met, the developer can do whatever they WANT and cannot be forced to do anything that they believe is economically unwise. This isn't some art project, it is real commerce. Real people will be held accountable for decisions and cannot just do things that will be cool just because it will make our city look good in a picture.

Many of you act as if $100 million is not significant either. If you think it is not, then go try to raise it for YOUR vision. Go and actually put together a $500 million 50 story skyscraper business plan and be sure to add the costs to make it as cool as you like. Clad it in marble. Put 100,000 sq ft of retail in it and go get it leased out to cool companies. Go find 50 or 100 people to live in the million $ penthouses. Go find companies that will pay twice or three time the average rent in downtown OKC just to be there.

If you think about it, since OG&E is a utility, the rate payers would raise holly hell (and should) if it were to move into a Taj Mahal and pay exorbitant rent. While it should also demand a building that is beneficial to the citizens here with great street interaction, etc., it should put pressure on the designers to do so. It would be a win for all parties. OG&E should do it because it's the right thing to do, and for good PR.

Let's bring sanity back and quit acting like a bunch of spoiled brats.

[soondoc]

Great points guys! In my earlier post perhaps the word "demand' was a bit strong. What I would like to see and perhaps someone on here more connected than me could help. I would like to see many emails and calls to the developer, mayor, etc. stating our disapproval of this project on this site. State that this prime location is more worthy than an average mid rise. We need to state that for this and all future projects currently planned or ongoing that it be done in a first class manner instead of minimal standards. Let it be known that we are ready for the country and world to see our city rise (literally). We want companies to locate or relocate here and to see the this place buzzing with excitement and growth. Yes, an impressive skyline is very, very, very important. It is what everyone can see from up close or from afar. With the major Interstates we have here, even if someone doesn't stop they can see the changes and growth of our skyline. Austin went from nothing to very impressive in a very short time. We can do the same, demand it and don't expect anything less. When people are in town looking to headquarter a company, don't think for a second they don't notice things like this.

Finally, I love the idea that OKC needs some type of tower or structure. I don't care if it is a steel tower all lit up and unique- it still adds to the skyline. Heck, I mentioned once that we should build that Oil Derrick and have our own version of the Eiffel Tower and even that Turbine looking building. It would send a message and make us unique that we are an Energy Power. Yes, that would be oil, natural gas, wind and solar. Lets make a statement and be proud and start thriving. Send this post to the mayor, Rainey, or even the Governor herself. Let's go on a building boom and when someone comes here in a few years that hadn't been in a while watch their jaws drop! That is what I want, so people spread the word, talk to the right people and please quit being negative and small time. We have been that for WAY too long.

[shawnw]

There have been real attempts to save SC. It just hasn't worked.

Also, being from a large city, I am a huge fan of skyscrapers. Always have been. But skyscrapers do not make a world-class city. No one here can argue that Washington DC isn't a world class city (no skyscrapers!). There are other world-class cities that lack very many if they have any skyscrapers.

BTW before the early 90's, Philadelphia (where I'm from) couldn't have skyscrapers taller than about 540 feet due to a law about them being taller than city hall (Penn's statue's hat), but no one here would have knocked the stature of Philly in the world, then or now.

Again I love skyscrapers, and the taller the better. But with minor exception (e.g. Empire State, space needle, etc), those buildings aren't going to make or break your city in peoples memories. Their experience on your streets on the other hand, will very much make an impression.

[OKVision4U]

Ever thought that OG&E may require to be the only tenant ?

Then if I were Raney, I would be demanding OG&E to let me build that world class 40 story , 20 story mixed use property tower and begin immediately.

[soondoc]

I felt like Belushi on Animal House in the last post! "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor"?? Then he runs out of the house after his motivational speech! lol

[dankrutka]

While this thread is pretty ridiculous and circular, the very nature of this discussion is also quite a testament to how far OKC has come in recent years.

[Pete]

While this thread is pretty ridiculous and circular, the very nature of this discussion is also quite a testament to how far OKC has come in recent years.

Yes, it's a great sign that so many people care about what happens downtown and with this property in particular.

[Paseofreak]

The idea that anybody OWES ANYBODY on this forum ANY explanation or has to meet the development standard professed by a bunch of amateurs who have never developed anything is just laughable. This is a private development which must meet standards and criteria outlined by the city and any other governing body. Once those standards are met, the developer can do whatever they WANT and cannot be forced to do anything that they believe is economically unwise. This isn't some art project, it is real commerce. Real people will be held accountable for decisions and cannot just do things that will be cool just because it will make our city look good in a picture.

Many of you act as if $100 million is not significant either. If you think it is not, then go try to raise it for YOUR vision. Go and actually put together a $500 million 50 story skyscraper business plan and be sure to add the costs to make it as cool as you like. Clad it in marble. Put 100,000 sq ft of retail in it and go get it leased out to cool companies. Go find 50 or 100 people to live in the million $ penthouses. Go find companies that will pay twice or three time the average rent in downtown OKC just to be there.

If you think about it, since OG&E is a utility, the rate payers would raise holly hell (and should) if it were to move into a Taj Mahal and pay exorbitant rent. While it should also demand a building that is beneficial to the citizens here with great street interaction, etc., it should put pressure on the designers to do so. It would be a win for all parties. OG&E should do it because it's the right thing to do, and for good PR.

Let's bring sanity back and quit acting like a bunch of spoiled brats.

Even more precisely!!

[OkieNate]

The idea that anybody OWES ANYBODY on this forum ANY explanation or has to meet the development standard professed by a bunch of amateurs who have never developed anything is just laughable. This is a private development which must meet standards and criteria outlined by the city and any other governing body. Once those standards are met, the developer can do whatever they WANT and cannot be forced to do anything that they believe is economically unwise. This isn't some art project, it is real commerce. Real people will be held accountable for decisions and cannot just do things that will be cool just because it will make our city look good in a picture.

Many of you act as if $100 million is not significant either. If you think it is not, then go try to raise it for YOUR vision. Go and actually put together a $500 million 50 story skyscraper business plan and be sure to add the costs to make it as cool as you like. Clad it in marble. Put 100,000 sq ft of retail in it and go get it leased out to cool companies. Go find 50 or 100 people to live in the million $ penthouses. Go find companies that will pay twice or three time the average rent in downtown OKC just to be there.

If you think about it, since OG&E is a utility, the rate payers would raise holly hell (and should) if it were to move into a Taj Mahal and pay exorbitant rent. While it should also demand a building that is beneficial to the citizens here with great street interaction, etc., it should put pressure on the designers to do so. It would be a win for all parties. OG&E should do it because it's the right thing to do, and for good PR.

Let's bring sanity back and quit acting like a bunch of spoiled brats.

He offered that information. If he doesnt want his project to be discussed by the public he should not have offered any information about it. Is there any regulation that states he had to provided a conceptual rendering to the DOK before it got reviewed by whatever committee will be reviewing the it? Also if holding a man to HIS WORDS is acting like a spoiled brat, count me in as a spoiled brat.

And what a selfish thought, this is OUR city not mine, not yours, not Raineys. Yes it is his development, his money, and what he says goes, that is understood. That DOES NOT mean we cannot have an opinion on it.

[Bellaboo]

I just read through the last page or so...... my first vision was about 4 or 5 guys jumping up and down throwing a tantrum screaming they want a 60 story building.

What gets built will be a building that is feasable and justified. Rainey Williams will not build some monstrosity that will not make sound economic sense.

Welcome to the real world. Some of you guys need to go back and play Sim City.

[OKVision4U]

Great points guys! In my earlier post perhaps the word "demand' was a bit strong. What I would like to see and perhaps someone on here more connected than me could help. I would like to see many emails and calls to the developer, mayor, etc. stating our disapproval of this project on this site. State that this prime location is more worthy than an average mid rise. We need to state that for this and all future projects currently planned or ongoing that it be done in a first class manner instead of minimal standards. Let it be known that we are ready for the country and world to see our city rise (literally). We want companies to locate or relocate here and to see the this place buzzing with excitement and growth. Yes, an impressive skyline is very, very, very important. It is what everyone can see from up close or from afar. With the major Interstates we have here, even if someone doesn't stop they can see the changes and growth of our skyline. Austin went from nothing to very impressive in a very short time. We can do the same, demand it and don't expect anything less. When people are in town looking to headquarter a company, don't think for a second they don't notice things like this.

Finally, I love the idea that OKC needs some type of tower or structure. I don't care if it is a steel tower all lit up and unique- it still adds to the skyline. Heck, I mentioned once that we should build that Oil Derrick and have our own version of the Eiffel Tower and even that Turbine looking building. It would send a message and make us unique that we are an Energy Power. Yes, that would be oil, natural gas, wind and solar. Lets make a statement and be proud and start thriving. Send this post to the mayor, Rainey, or even the Governor herself. Let's go on a building boom and when someone comes here in a few years that hadn't been in a while watch their jaws drop! That is what I want, so people spread the word, talk to the right people and please quit being negative and small time. We have been that for WAY too long.

OKC is ready for that Energy Power Tower.

[Bellaboo]

OKC is ready for that Energy Power Tower.

I get it, we can put a giant oil derrick next to the Oklahoma River, put a wind turbine on top of it, and then run a natural gas pipe on top of the turbine and have an eternal flame burning 24/7.

Now if that wouldn't be a cobbled up laughing stock of a symbol.....

[OkieNate]

I just read through the last page or so...... my first vision was about 4 or 5 guys jumping up and down throwing a tantrum screaming they want a 60 story building.

What gets built will be a building that is feasable and justified. Rainey Williams will not build some monstrosity that will not make sound economic sense.

Welcome to the real world. Some of you guys need to go back and play Sim City.

Why are you so okay with being mediocre ( feasible, justified = mediocre) ? The 60 story thing came from Steve...And Pete said of course he'd rather have a 60 story than three 20 stories.

Welcome to the New Oklahoma City, where citizens care and we are tired of run of the mil mediocrity, over promises and underwhelming deliveries.

Why do people get on here if you cant handle opinion?!? Obviously this forum will have little to nothing to do with the project or how its handled. This is a place for free thinking and open discussion.