OKC Mayor Race 2014

[mkjeeves]

I just wonder if Ed has ever been to a Thunder game ?

His tax dollars have. Considering his income level, probably more so than your average fan's.

Moneyball

Five years since its arrival, the OKC Thunder has benefited from more than $139 million in taxpayer dollars.

Oklahoma Gazette News: OKC Thunder

[betts]

David??? Duh. We approved most of those taxes at the polls. Ed gave tacit approval by choosing not to vote. Even Wanda Jo Stapleton has changed her tune. What the Thunder have done for OKC is immeasurable, both financially and in terms of the gravitas they lend our city.

But....lets say the Thunder came asking again and Ed were mayor. Anyone think he could see the big picture?

[Bellaboo]

His tax dollars have. Considering his income level, probably more so than your average fan's.

Moneyball

Five years since its arrival, the OKC Thunder has benefited from more than $139 million in taxpayer dollars.

Oklahoma Gazette News: OKC Thunder

So his tax dollars have been to a game ???

That's not my question. I'll ask it again.....I wonder if Ed has ever been to a Thunder basketball game ?

[Jeepnokc]

His tax dollars have. Considering his income level, probably more so than your average fan's.

Moneyball

Five years since its arrival, the OKC Thunder has benefited from more than $139 million in taxpayer dollars.

Oklahoma Gazette News: OKC Thunder

I read the article and makes for a nice headline. Let's look at the details from article. The three incentives were exemption for sales tax on tickets, Quality Jobs Rebate, and improvements to the Ford Center and Practice facility. Starting with the exemption on ticket sales tax. This dates back to the Hornets and benefits all pro sports franchises...not just the Thunder. I think it is a joke to say this costs the taxpayer money. Seriously, we are going to count a waiver on sales tax for a ticket to a game that wouldn't be here previously. Let's see.....no Thunder.....no ticket to sell. What was the loss here? We still collect sales tax on all the merchandise and food/beer sold inside. The Quality Jobs rebate is up to 5% on taxes paid for new jobs. Once again.......This isn't money being generated by the taxpayers but is a rebate of money they are paying in for jobs that wouldn't be here otherwise. The employee is still paying taxes on their portion so the State is still making money. Looking at another Gazette article that was linked to the article you posted, in the 2011-12 fiscal year, the QJR program refunded 68.9 million dollars on $17 billion in new wages paid That is not a typo....$17 Billion in new wages!. The average wage was $59,000 per year. Other companies receiving rebates were Chesapeake, Devon, Coca Cola, Halliburton, Direct TV, Wal Mart, Sandridge, Conoco, Dell, as well as another 143 companies. I sure do not have a problem with $17 Billion in new wages that are still paying taxes and also spending other money.
Last is the improvements which were voted on by the people of OKC. Funny thing about a democracy is that sometimes you don't get your way because you are in the minority. I don't swim in the city pools or new splash parks, go to senior citizen centers or run on the trails but doesn't mean I don't have to pay my portion because it makes my city more attractive to outsiders and provides a better place to live for many people AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, the majority of citizens voted for it.

The article doesn't take into account the national attention the Thunder bring to our city as well as the visiting fans from the other teams and our fans from outside OKC that come to games and spend money on hotels, food, gas, etc. Every one makes money off the Thunder. I am a DUI attorney and some fans make bad choices that generates income for my business not to mention the bondsmen, treatment providers and court system. I am not a BB fan and have only been to one game but when it comes to the financial side...I am a huge Thunder Fan!

Oklahoma Gazette News: Quality Jobs recipients

[soonerguru]

I read the article and makes for a nice headline. Let's look at the details from article. The three incentives were exemption for sales tax on tickets, Quality Jobs Rebate, and improvements to the Ford Center and Practice facility. Starting with the exemption on ticket sales tax. This dates back to the Hornets and benefits all pro sports franchises...not just the Thunder. I think it is a joke to say this costs the taxpayer money. Seriously, we are going to count a waiver on sales tax for a ticket to a game that wouldn't be here previously. Let's see.....no Thunder.....no ticket to sell. What was the loss here? We still collect sales tax on all the merchandise and food/beer sold inside. The Quality Jobs rebate is up to 5% on taxes paid for new jobs. Once again.......This isn't money being generated by the taxpayers but is a rebate of money they are paying in for jobs that wouldn't be here otherwise. The employee is still paying taxes on their portion so the State is still making money. Looking at another Gazette article that was linked to the article you posted, in the 2011-12 fiscal year, the QJR program refunded 68.9 million dollars on $17 billion in new wages paid That is not a typo....$17 Billion in new wages!. The average wage was $59,000 per year. Other companies receiving rebates were Chesapeake, Devon, Coca Cola, Halliburton, Direct TV, Wal Mart, Sandridge, Conoco, Dell, as well as another 143 companies. I sure do not have a problem with $17 Billion in new wages that are still paying taxes and also spending other money.
Last is the improvements which were voted on by the people of OKC. Funny thing about a democracy is that sometimes you don't get your way because you are in the minority. I don't swim in the city pools or new splash parks, go to senior citizen centers or run on the trails but doesn't mean I don't have to pay my portion because it makes my city more attractive to outsiders and provides a better place to live for many people AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, the majority of citizens voted for it.

The article doesn't take into account the national attention the Thunder bring to our city as well as the visiting fans from the other teams and our fans from outside OKC that come to games and spend money on hotels, food, gas, etc. Every one makes money off the Thunder. I am a DUI attorney and some fans make bad choices that generates income for my business not to mention the bondsmen, treatment providers and court system. I am not a BB fan and have only been to one game but when it comes to the financial side...I am a huge Thunder Fan!

Oklahoma Gazette News: Quality Jobs recipients

Excellent post!

[mkjeeves]

Thanks for all your cheerleading about the Thunder. None of it has anything to do with the simple fact the taxpayers are the central star of the show.

Some of us voted for and all of us financed the arena to start with. Then some of us voted for and all of us financed the improvements to the arena. We taxpayers continue to finance the Thunder in the various ways outlined.

I wonder why some people want to sweep that all under the rug and are so afraid to give credit where due?


Yes, there are lots of benefits for us doing so and we can go on for pages about it. The central fact above remains. Every taxpayer has ownership of the Thunder being here.

As far as tax exempt tickets go, people spend their entertainment dollars either way. Now a good bit of that has been shifted to tax exempt Thunder tickets. Formerly much of it would have been taxed.

[mkjeeves]

Bellaboo...I don't know and don't care if Ed has ever been to a game. I'll let you worry on about that. I'm gonna bet he's paid a good share of the taxes that got them here.

Now here's a rhetorical question for you, how many people are there in the Metro who have paid taxes to support the Thunder but can't afford their tickets?

[Bellaboo]

Guess you shouldn't have brought it up in post 2510 if you don't like it.

The latest study I saw was that the city (along with area business), receive around 1.25 million dollar impact every time the Thunder have a home game.....the investment in them is starting to pay off well. They are guaranteed 43 home games a year not counting playoffs.

[betts]

Now here's a rhetorical question for you, how many people are there in the Metro who have paid taxes to support the Thunder but can't afford their tickets?

Almost no one. There are $10 tickets and free tickets. If you can afford to go to a movie you can afford to go to a game. There are 1000 tickets for sale the day of the game, and they are the least expensive ones. The Thunder give away 100 free tickets to every game which you have a chance to win by standing in line. The players give free tickets away as well to various organizations.

[Bellaboo]

Bellaboo...I don't know and don't care if Ed has ever been to a game. I'll let you worry on about that. I'm gonna bet he's paid a good share of the taxes that got them here.

Now here's a rhetorical question for you, how many people are there in the Metro who have paid taxes to support the Thunder but can't afford their tickets?

Mkjeeves,

Everyone can afford a $10 dollar ticket.....or at least they should. The Thunder give away 100 pair of these by raffle to every home game, not sure about the playoffs on this, and they have several hundred more for sale at this same price. The NBA requires this of every arena in the league, to give those not quite fortunate the opportunity to attend games.

My point about Ed, is that his tickets as a councilman would be free, if he chose to attend. I've never seen him at a game, but that's why I ask if anyone else has...

And by the way, I don't, have not and never will worry about Ed.

[mkjeeves]

Guess you shouldn't have brought it up in post 2510 if you don't like it.

The latest study I saw was that the city (along with area business), receive around 1.25 million dollar impact every time the Thunder have a home game.....the investment in them is starting to pay off well. They are guaranteed 43 home games a year not counting playoffs.

Wonderful. Cheerlead on. Doesn't change the central fact of the importance of the taxpayers.

1.25 million dollar impact

Which does not mean 1.25 million paid back of the millions and millions spent by the city. Gross versus net.

Please rave on about something besides the taxpayers and pretend they were not and are not important in your world.

[kevinpate]

... Now here's a rhetorical question for you, how many people are there in the Metro who have paid taxes to support the Thunder but can't afford their tickets?

Courtside seats, or Loud city?
For the former, a large part of the population, just like any city where there are pro sports and tickets for sale.
For the latter, the folks who can not afford a loud city ticket are, way more likely than not, very few. Even someone who strives to get by on only a disability check could manage to take in an occasional game. He or she might need to forego some higher priced convenience food in favor of getting creative with seasonings, beans and rice, but let's be real, Loud City tickets are not bank busters or cause for someone to actually go hungry.

In my opinion you need a different drum to thump on other than ticket pricing.

[Bellaboo]

I happen to be a taxpayer.... and if I had to guess, maybe more than you are, but then maybe not.

[betts]

The voters chose to spend tax money on the Thunder and I suspect if they were asked they'd vote to do the same even more overwhelmingly. Go ask a few Ward 7 voters and get an education. There's local television coverage as well, so that people who can't afford to go to every game can watch them on television. If you don't think the poor and less well off get pleasure from the Thunder, then you don't know many. I work with them every day, and I see more Thunder gear on the poor than anyone else. The team is a great conversation starter for me with the kids. Go to any inner city school and see if the kids don't recognize the names Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. Those kids are more likely to have met them than we are. And the poor aren't different from the rest of us, you know. They take pride in their city as well. They love sports as much as anyone else. No one should discount what this team has done for all citizens of OKC.

[mkjeeves]

The voters chose to spend tax money on the Thunder and I suspect if they were asked they'd vote to do the same even more overwhelmingly. Go ask a few Ward 7 voters and get an education. There's local television coverage as well, so that people who can't afford to go to every game can watch them on television. If you don't think the poor and less well off get pleasure from the Thunder, then you don't know many. I work with them every day, and I see more Thunder gear on the poor than anyone else. The team is a great conversation starter for me with the kids. Go to any inner city school and see if the kids don't recognize the names Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. Those kids are more likely to have met them than we are. And the poor aren't different from the rest of us, you know. They take pride in their city as well. They love sports as much as anyone else. No one should discount what this team has done for all citizens of OKC.

Cheerleader on. Whatever you do, don't give the taxpayers the credit due. Go ahead with page after page of not doing that.

[warreng88]

Cheerleader on. Whatever you do, don't give the taxpayers the credit due. Go ahead with page after page of not doing that.

What is she cheerleading? Are you just trying to ruffle feathers and take away the dicussion on ES? You asked a rhetorical questions and multiple posters on here answered your questions that tickets are $10 and everyone can afford them. Are you stumped by the fact that your insinuation was wrong and people called you out on it?

By the way, I will go on record and say the taxpayers of OKC, Mick Cornett and Clay Bennett's group are all the people who are responsible for bringing the Thunder to OKC. The taxpayers financed the building and renovation of the arena and the building of the practice facility and the tax breaks for the Thunder for bringing in higher paying jobs that were not already here. Mick Cornett fought tooth and nail to get the Hornets to get here after Katrina which opened the door for a relocation of the Sonics after they were unable to get an arena deal done in Seattle. Is that what you wanted to here? All three are very important and one could not have succeeded without the other.

[betts]

I give the taxpayers all the due, as does David Stern, the Thunder organization, Mayor Cornett and everyone else I know. Without the taxpayers, OKC would be the dusty backwater city we werein the 70s and 80s. But we've gotten back a lot more than we've given.

But if you want to support someone for mayor who is one of us and sees the big picture, watch Councilman Pettis. He's got almost as much experience as Shadid and is politically years older than him already. He'll fight for his constituents but also puts the city first as well. He understands compromise and waiting your turn. He may be the person many of us can agree on someday. That's if he stays in politics and wants to run someday.

[betts]

When Wanda Jo isn't even on your side, mkjeeves, the only people you're hangin with are the most rabid tea partiers. Save your arguments for MAPS 4. Time to go back to discussing who should be mayor.

[mkjeeves]

I heard a rumor today that ex-Commerce Secretary David Lopez was considering a possible run if Cornett does not run. Anyone know anything about him?

Put away your multiple straw men and other falicies of whatever side you would like to argue against irrelevant to my point. My argument on the issue is against the inference of who does and who does not have ownership. The taxpayers have the largest stake. That includes Ed. Period.

[Bellaboo]

Cheerleader on. Whatever you do, don't give the taxpayers the credit due. Go ahead with page after page of not doing that.

You're starting to sound like Edgar, but that's okay, I kind of like Edgar.

[mkjeeves]

You're starting to sound like Edgar, but that's okay, I kind of like Edgar.

You sound like you've always sounded, someone far more interested in attacking posters than arguments.

[betts]

But Ed didn't vote yes or no on the arena tax so his participation isn't unwilling but rather, indifferent.

[mkjeeves]

Straw man.

[Bellaboo]

You sound like you've always sounded, someone far more interested in attacking posters than arguments.

When issues are explained using crayons and some posters still don't get it, then yes it's a little frustrating. But I respect that everyone has an opinion and the ability to post.....continue on.

[Jim Kyle]

Cheerleader on. Whatever you do, don't give the taxpayers the credit due. Go ahead with page after page of not doing that.

Initially, I tended to support your Great Leader on the basic principle of "always vote the incumbents out" but his actions -- and even more so, yours and Edgar's in this thread -- have convinced me to agree with Betts and Bellaboo about his disqualifying character defects.

Keep it up. Maybe you'll succeed in getting rid of others who may not have decided yet!

And FWIW, I just sent the county my ad valorem tax payment for the year, and nowhere on the bill did it mention support of the Thunder. The city and the state, not the county, provide their tax incentives, and that means anyone who pays sales tax is helping with the investment since sales tax is the primary source of income for the city.