OKC Mayor Race 2014

[tomokc]

Back to regular programming...

From Steve Lackmeyer's coverage of Tuesday's council meeting reported on page 1C in today's paper: "A consultant hired to analyze the feasibility of a convention hotel downtown was hit with a blistering verbal attack by councilman and mayoral candidate Ed Shadid, but otherwise found a receptive audience among the remainder of the city council Tuesday." Quoting Shadid, "I expected a highly biased, poorly reasoned, poor methodology study, and I wasn't disappointed." (I believe that someone else posted this yesterday.)

It's not that Shadid continues to stand alone in his beliefs, but he also stands VERY alone in the caustic, obnoxious, offensive and demeaning way that he expresses himself. He may be right, but he's an a$$hole, and nobody follows someone like that.

[RadicalModerate]

The continued overuse of the words "gentrification" and "holistic" reminds me of the movie "The Princess Bride" and the similarly-overused word "inconceivable." Like Inigo Montoya, I think you don't know what those words mean.

Speaking of "semantics" . . . Don't you think that, technically, "holistic" should actually be spelled "wholistic"?
(it's inconceivable to me that somehow the "w" got dropped)

[mkjeeves]

mkjeeves, I'm not going to ask how old you are, but I am going to ask if you lived in Oklahoma City in 1980 and if you did, how many times you went downtown between 1980 and 1990, if you can recall.

http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-...tml#post716070

I spent part of that time period living at NW 32nd and Shartel and working in a number of the buildings downtown, around town and around the state, as I do now.

And you? What's your history with OKC and Oklahoma.

[mkjeeves]

What, precisely, is the problem with gentrification?

Ask the last four posters who are scared to death to talk about it and that people might use it while discussing OKC.

[Just the facts]

I tried to read as much as I could of the last few pages but I have had this 'gentrification' discussion with mkjeeves before and here is his concern I understood it (and he can correct me if I wrong). The main concern with gentrification is that as areas revitalize the rents and cost of ownership go up, which in turn drives lower income people out of the area. Even if they own their homes outright the rise in property taxes also put a strain on their limited budgets. At the same time, many of the people in these areas rely on mass transit and in a cruel twist of irony, get forced out of their neighborhood at the very time the improvements to mass transit are made in that neighborhood. That probably explains why mkjeeves and others prefer an expanded bus system instead of rail. They want improved mass transit, but not so improved that middle and upper incomes get attracted by it.

While I can see this concern, there are lots of ways to mitigate it. First, the city can (and does) encourage that a certain percentage of units in large development are offered below market rate. A return to traditional residential outbuildings (granny flats, garage apartments, etc...) also offer safe and affordable housing - especially to the aging elderly and young people. Poor homeowners also see an increase in the home/property value so if they do decide to sell they receive much more than would have in the past. Finally, along with the new residents comes new businesses and better connections to other parts of the urban core, which bring with it increase opportunities for work and quality public recreation (2 things which usually elude the poor).

Alas, we do know one thing for sure - the segregation of people by income (practically mandated by the federal government since the 1949 Housing Act) hasn't worked out well for any of us.

[Steve]

We have not seen lower income residents forced out of JFK or around Las Rosas. There was no history of lower income people living in Bricktown. Affordable housing has been maintained for seniors at the Tower Apartments and Wesley Village in Midtown.
I have no loyalty to either guy in this race. No one can say I've not hit Mick Cornett with hardballs over the past several years. But I will cite history and facts when efforts are undertaken to divide urban and suburban.

[Just the facts]

Granted, most of OKC's downtown and downtown adjacent neighborhoods have had very few residents for the last 50 years, but what happens when Paseo, 23rd Street, Plaza District, Capitol Hill, and OKCs other historical urban clusters go Midtown or when HSC area goes Memorial Road? Mkjeeves is concerned about what happens to the people living in those areas now.

We know for a fact rail transit will bring a lot of new development to every neighborhood it touches, which is why people who don't want the development oppose rail.

[Rover]

Some people easily dismiss the positive effects of profit as a motive for development and redevelopment. We could leave dilapidated areas that way and it could be affordable to all....at least anyone who WANTED to live there. The same free market forces that work to improve our society as a whole are curiously repugnant to some uber conservatives on here who now WANT government to control the makeup of the market supply and control the rental income. They seem to view capitalism as an evil.

[betts]

http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-...tml#post716070

I spent part of that time period living at NW 32nd and Shartel and working in a number of the buildings downtown, around town and around the state, as I do now.

And you? What's your history with OKC and Oklahoma.

I moved to OKC from Denver in 1980. I lived on 24th St., right behind Cuppies and Joe's. I was a student at the Health Sciences Center and have worked there since graduation. I'd moved here from Denver, which in 1980 had a vibrant, alive downtown day and night. I lived just outside downtown Denver (in a non-gentrified area) and didn't have a car because I didn't need one. I walked or rode the bus everywhere. When I moved here and we immediately went downtown to see what was happening there, we were shocked. We walked around, stared at everything, looked for a restaurant, a store, people, anything. My husband's first comment, "What a dump!" For years I longed to go back to Denver, but for work-related reasons it wasnt feasible. I've since lived in OKC's outskirts, in Deer Creek, in Nichols Hills, but always missed what I had in Denver. When I could see downtown starting to become a shadow of what was clearly its former self, I decided to take a risk(or at least what my friends thought was a risk) and move downtown. It's not Denver, but its not the ghost town it was in 1980.

I never felt like OKC was ignoring me out in the near 'burbs. I had good roads, parks and schools. There were nice grocery stores and shopping. But downtown I considered an embarrassment for a city of our size. So I was thrilled when MAPS was proposed. I was excited about MAPS for Kids. When I look at pictures of what downtown OKC was like in the 40s, I feel sad for what we lost. Denver didn't destroy their downtown and it still flourishes. It's there for every citizen. Now we have a downtown in OKC every citizen can enjoy. I'm proud of what OKC has accomplished and want to see it continue to improve. Which is why I'm voting for Mick Cornett (back on topic).

[Dubya61]

^ there's another example. No answer other than spend it downtown.

No. If I understand it right, it is NOT just a "spend it downtown" concept. There are plans underway to provide (north) Western and Meridian with a streetscape. I'm pretty sure HubCap alley is included in the plan to make OKC better. There's a lot of work around the 44th or 59th and Western intersections better that could result in some organic improvement there. These are just a couple of examples that come to mind.
Further, I'm pretty sure I DON'T want a lot of investment in my neighborhood. I like my T1/T2 transect UN-urbanized. What would you have the city throw money at, anyway? Better bus shelters? I'm pretty sure it's on the to-do list.

[Dubya61]

The continued overuse of the words "gentrification" and "holistic" reminds me of the movie "The Princess Bride" and the similarly-overused word "inconceivable." Like Inigo Montoya, I think you don't know what those words mean.

I think they play second fiddle to "swarthy", though.

[David]

"Swarthy" is definitely the best and most ridiculous thing that has come out of this thread.

[okcustu]

Gentrification in OKC isn't a such a bad thing in that not a lot of displacement happen because of so much available land. In fact, some neighborhoods could benefit patients; there's nothing but empty storefronts at a lack of opportunity at some Oklahoma City neighborhoods. White blanks that there's also the ways we could mitigate rent increases and make sure that older residents and longtime residents don't get priced out of the neighborhood. As good as big business tax breaks have been, neighborhood grants can really generate jobs and make our cultural scene better. Some have wrongly suggested that The plaza or midtown just waved a wand and got gentrified over night. Wrong, both received city monies for street scape projects and in the case of midtown, a tax break to St. Anthony's. There some other great core neighborhoods that would benefit from streetscapes improvements or helping local companies expand or relocate in the core.

But I did think that synopsis of rail versus bus is a little simplistic. Oklahoma City needs a robust transportation network that also includes buses; the rail transit system will not be operable for at least a decade. Also there are parts of Oklahoma City that again are just not dense enough to handle rail and so therefore we need a robust bus system.

[betts]

I don't know anyone who supports rail who doesn't agree with you about the bus system, okcusta. But I think rail will sell a tax that can be used to improve all transit. I think, based on conversations I've had with people who have either lived in OKC all their lives or cities without good bus transit, as well as people who are fairly fiscally conservative (and there are more of those than there are people like me) that getting a tax passed that only supports improved bus transit would be problematic. We need to promote an improved transit system to get the comprehensive system we need.

[Midtowner]

I don't know anyone who supports rail who doesn't agree with you about the bus system, okcusta. But I think rail will sell a tax that can be used to improve all transit. I think, based on conversations I've had with people who have either lived in OKC all their lives or cities without good bus transit, as well as people who are fairly fiscally conservative (and there are more of those than there are people like me) that getting a tax passed that only supports improved bus transit would be problematic. We need to promote an improved transit system to get the comprehensive system we need.

And I think it would be more appropriate to handle that at a county-wide level or maybe even form a multi-county trust be established (or COTPA just be rejiggered) to administer something like this.

[shawnw]

Clearly we need an RTA. Maybe someone could be a leader and start working on that. :-P

[Dubya61]

Clearly we need an RTA. Maybe someone could be a leader and start working on that. :-P

Mayor Cornett IS working on that. See UP's post (oft quoted).

[warreng88]

Mayor Cornett IS working on that. See UP's post (oft quoted).

I read shawn's statement as tongue in cheek. Was I wrong?

[shawnw]

Warren you were not wrong. It was totally tongue in cheek.

[Garin]

OKC Mayoral Candidate Ed Shadid Faces New Drug Abuse Allegations - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

[BoulderSooner]

Well this election is over

[catch22]

I heard the Police Union has pulled their endorsement of Shadid?

[CaptDave]

I heard the Police Union has pulled their endorsement of Shadid?

Appears to be true.....

FOP Pulls Shadid Support, Cites ?Recent disclosures? | The McCarville Report

[Steve]

I think the world of Mike McCarville... but I'd call it a suspension, not a pulling of support.

[kevinpate]

That email read more like a suspension of the endorsement and spending rather than an outright cancellation of the endorsement.

To each their own.


On edit: Steve types faster than I do.