The Rise

[jrod]

So just like that, 3 new bars (Retro, Pump, Whiskey) in a very small area. Include Grandad's and you've got 4 walkable bars on the same side of the street. Also, 4 very different concepts. Great things happening Uptown.

[Pete]

Wouldn't be surprised if thew new pizza place has a pretty lively bar as well, and there is also the Blue Note a little further down.

[Teo9969]

Yeah, the pizza shop is significantly bigger than BTT, Mutts, and BDBBQ, so it will be interesting to see what route they take this.

[dankrutka]

Could 23rd become the (non-Bricktown) bar district OKC has desperately needed?

[Teo9969]

Could 23rd become the (non-Bricktown) bar district OKC has desperately needed?

No.

The best place for that would be the area between Broadway/9th/Oklahoma/6th. Relatively little car traffic, close to OKC's densest neighborhoods (Midtown/Deep Deuce), and good mix of existing building stock to give the area character but still empty lots to bring in some fresh life as well.

There's too much vehicular traffic on 23rd, IMO.

23rd would do best if it had a great music venue in the Tower Theater development that could frequently draw people in from all over the metro and keep the area hopping on a predictable schedule.

[dankrutka]

For all its momentum, Automobile Alley literally has zero bars (restaurant bars don't count). 23rd has a new successful one, others nearby, and 3 on the way. While Automobile Alley may may be good theoretically, I'm not sure how you could think it's on its way to becoming a bar district before it even has one planned for the area. Midtown, with Fassler/Dust Bowl on the way, or Deep Deuce are better picks right now also...

[Teo9969]

For all its momentum, Automobile Alley literally has zero bars (restaurant bars don't count). 23rd has a new successful one, others nearby, and 3 on the way. While Automobile Alley may may be good theoretically, I'm not sure how you could think it's on its way to becoming a bar district before it even has one planned for the area. Midtown, with Fassler/Dust Bowl on the way, or Deep Deuce are better picks right now also...

Peloton

The point though, is that 23rd will never be a bar district, neither will Midtown, nor DD, nor Film Row, nor the Plaza, nor even Bricktown. Those may be places with lots of bars, but none will ever be almost exclusively bars(/restaurants with good bars). If we want to have a *bar* district (like Austin's 6th St.), that area East of Broadway is the only place I can conceive of one at the moment, unless we put it in C2S.

[catch22]

The plaza would make an awesome little bar district. Zoning laws prevent full service bars (has to have a restaurant).

[Teo9969]

The plaza would make an awesome little bar district. Zoning laws prevent full service bars (has to have a restaurant).

I agree.

[Urbanized]

The Plaza District folks prefer it that way. Also Automobile Alley will probably never have BARS - that is, ABC-3 places that don't have to serve at least 50% food - at least along Broadway, because of the proximity to churches lining Robinson.

[dankrutka]

Peloton

The point though, is that 23rd will never be a bar district, neither will Midtown, nor DD, nor Film Row, nor the Plaza, nor even Bricktown. Those may be places with lots of bars, but none will ever be almost exclusively bars(/restaurants with good bars). If we want to have a *bar* district (like Austin's 6th St.), that area East of Broadway is the only place I can conceive of one at the moment, unless we put it in C2S.

Forgot about Peloton. You seem to have a pretty narrow definition of a "bar district." All I mean is any area with enough bars that people can hop around. Examples include the Brady District or even Cherry Street, Blue Dome, or Brookside in Tulsa and Campus Corner in Norman. In all these places, you can just go to the district with a group and you have a number of options. Outside of Bricktown (which is good, but different), OKC has lacked an area where you can really do that. The closest might have been if you crossed Northwest Expressway to Edna's from the 3 spots on the other side of the street. Anyway, I think 23rd might emerge as a "bar district" broadly defined within the next few years.

[Urbanized]

Haha you must not have ever done a Western pub crawl. An Oklahoma City cultural institution for more than a quarter century. Walkable, however? Not really.

[Rajah]

I agree. 23rd could be a great bar district. There is a lot of vehicular traffic, but not at night. Crossing 23rd on foot is much less of a challenge than crossing Broadway on foot.

[onthestrip]

The plaza would make an awesome little bar district. Zoning laws prevent full service bars (has to have a restaurant).

The Plaza District folks prefer it that way. Also Automobile Alley will probably never have BARS - that is, ABC-3 places that don't have to serve at least 50% food - at least along Broadway, because of the proximity to churches lining Robinson.

Isnt there a bar on that side street towards the west end of the plaza, Scorecards or something? Does that place serve food? Or maybe its not officially considered part of the plaza?

[Pete]

Isnt there a bar on that side street towards the west end of the plaza, Scorecards or something? Does that place serve food? Or maybe its not officially considered part of the plaza?

Yes, Scorecards is a very old-school bar on Indiana, just of 16th.

Don't think they serve food.

[warreng88]

Scorecards was grandfathered into the Plaza zoning laws. That is how they get away with only being a bar and not serving food.

[bchris02]

No.

The best place for that would be the area between Broadway/9th/Oklahoma/6th. Relatively little car traffic, close to OKC's densest neighborhoods (Midtown/Deep Deuce), and good mix of existing building stock to give the area character but still empty lots to bring in some fresh life as well.

There's too much vehicular traffic on 23rd, IMO.

23rd would do best if it had a great music venue in the Tower Theater development that could frequently draw people in from all over the metro and keep the area hopping on a predictable schedule.

The Tower Theater is the key to 23rd St. Without its revitalization I don't see 23rd ever reaching full potential. Improving yes but not becoming everything it could be.

Building a true bar district may be difficult in OKC not only because of the culture but how difficult it is to get that kind of liquor license. Plus, it seems like restaurant/bars are the rage right now and pure bars are not. This is evidenced by the owner of JDM Place wanting a restaurant rather than another bar to replace Skyy Bar. It makes sense as bars have a very narrow customer base while a restaurant has a much larger base. If a bar district were to develop in OKC, my bets are midtown or 23rd but I see both of those as being ultimately an uphill battle. From my perspective, a bar district can have restaurants but still has plenty of bars. If it's all restaurant/bars it's not a bar district.

[amaesquire]

Isnt there a bar on that side street towards the west end of the plaza, Scorecards or something? Does that place serve food? Or maybe its not officially considered part of the plaza?

They also don't serve liquor. Only 3.2 beer.

[dankrutka]

The Tower Theater is the key to 23rd St. Without its revitalization I don't see 23rd ever reaching full potential. Improving yes but not becoming everything it could be.

Building a true bar district may be difficult in OKC not only because of the culture but how difficult it is to get that kind of liquor license. Plus, it seems like restaurant/bars are the rage right now and pure bars are not. This is evidenced by the owner of JDM Place wanting a restaurant rather than another bar to replace Skyy Bar. It makes sense as bars have a very narrow customer base while a restaurant has a much larger base. If a bar district were to develop in OKC, my bets are midtown or 23rd but I see both of those as being ultimately an uphill battle. From my perspective, a bar district can have restaurants but still has plenty of bars. If it's all restaurant/bars it's not a bar district.

Are Tulsa's laws and culture that much different from OKC? What about every other major city in the U.S., including regional ones like KC?

[bchris02]

Are Tulsa's laws and culture that much different from OKC? What about every other major city in the U.S., including regional ones like KC?

Is it possible that Tulsa's urban university has made it more favorable for vibrant bar districts than OKC? I really can't think of any other reason why they are so far ahead in that area. Kansas City is so much larger it really is an entirely different ballgame.

[adaniel]

Are Tulsa's laws and culture that much different from OKC? What about every other major city in the U.S., including regional ones like KC?

No offense, but you are completely discounting Bricktown. Just because it doesn't have the bars that YOU like doesn't make it any less a "bar district."

[Urbanized]

Scorecards in Plaza is a 3.2 beer bar. No mixed beverage license, no strong beer, no liquor, no wine.

[PhiAlpha]

Really if the "restaurants" have a large bar, are open till two and are located walk-ably close to each other in an urban or somewhat urban setting, who the hell cares what they're considered. To me, a bar district is any area with walkable mix of restaurant/bars and bars that are open till two. I would much rather have districts full of restaurants that operate as bars at night so that they are not completely dead and not causing the street/sidewalk life around them to be completely dead during most of the day. If you all are stuck on that definition of a bar district, I don't want one in midtown, AA, or Uptown.

All of those districts mentioned in Tulsa are primarily composed of restaurants that double as bars or bars that double as restaurants. Under your definition of a bar district, none of them would be considered true bar districts, especially if you don't consider Bricktown one. Same goes for uptown in Dallas, midtown and Montrose in Houston, any district in Ft. Worth, Bourbon Street in NO, and LoDo in Denver. The only true bar district I can think of under that definition is 6th Street in Austin and even that has several restaurants sprinkled in.

[PhiAlpha]

The Tower Theater is the key to 23rd St. Without its revitalization I don't see 23rd ever reaching full potential. Improving yes but not becoming everything it could be.

Building a true bar district may be difficult in OKC not only because of the culture but how difficult it is to get that kind of liquor license. Plus, it seems like restaurant/bars are the rage right now and pure bars are not. This is evidenced by the owner of JDM Place wanting a restaurant rather than another bar to replace Skyy Bar. It makes sense as bars have a very narrow customer base while a restaurant has a much larger base. If a bar district were to develop in OKC, my bets are midtown or 23rd but I see both of those as being ultimately an uphill battle. From my perspective, a bar district can have restaurants but still has plenty of bars. If it's all restaurant/bars it's not a bar district.

I think it's somewhat narrow-minded to say that the success of the whole Uptown District relies on one venue. It would be great if someone turned the Tower Theater into something awesome, but if it doesn't happen for awhile, it isn't the end of the world (though incredibly frustrating, how Dillon can't find a way to finance this thing is beyond me). Its success does however depend on the development of that block. The Tower block is massive and with an exception of 23rd street body piercing, completely vacant. If the majority of those store fronts are filled, the rise and everything behind it takes off, the other store fronts on 23rd are leased to solid retail/restaurants/bars, and some of the empty lots are developed, I don't know how you could consider the district anything other than a major success even without the Tower Theater being redeveloped. The Tower Theater would be a valuable asset as an Anchor for Uptown, but the district's success doesn't completely hinge on it.

[PWitty]

Is it possible that Tulsa's urban university has made it more favorable for vibrant bar districts than OKC? I really can't think of any other reason why they are so far ahead in that area. Kansas City is so much larger it really is an entirely different ballgame.

I have never been to Tulsa so I can't comment on that, but all the "bar districts" in KC are not full of only bars. The majority of them are restaurants or bar and grills that turn into bars at night. Even in a place like P&L most of the places are open during the day and serve food.

I agree with PhiAlpha, there aren't really any "bar districts" in other cities that are strictly bars only, and I would prefer it that way as well. Even all the bars in Lawrence, down on Mass St., are all bars/grills that have a half that stays open during the day and serves food.