Biggest needs in our city

[ChristianConservative]

Lower Bricktown, beginning with Bass Pro, has been a HUGE lost opportunity that we actually paid for. As a thriving retail center (the way it was pitched) it is looking like a lost cause.

You're preaching to the choir! Right on, brother!

[Easy180]

Still have to keep in mind companies aren't beating down the door to come here

[ChristianConservative]

Still have to keep in mind companies aren't beating down the door to come here

I we were going to subsidize a private retailer to come here, my first choice wouldn't have been Bass Pro Shops. If we're going to subsidize Bass Pro, why not subsidize Jim Tolbert to build a unbique book store downtown? Or Crest Foods to locate a small grocery store downtown? Or Balliets to locate a unique clothing store downtown? Who in the heck decided it was appropriate to put a mega-hunting and fishing store in the middle of downtown?

[Easy180]

What major company that is currently or was interested at that time in coming to Oklahoma would you rather have in that spot at the very end of bricktown?

[Patrick]

I personally think a small shopping village, or a craft village would've fit better than one big-box retailer.

[Spartan]

This is a very wide question, almost begging the question, "What is life?"

Biggest need is stylish mass transportation at this point. All the development in the world will follow after that point.

[OU Adonis]

Actually, Bricktown is struggling. The businesses down there have seen profts decline, and crowds flocking to Bricktown have decreased.

Do you have any links to say that? I am not doubting what you say, but I find it a bit hard to believe. Specific businesses may be having problems, but I think overall the money is still there.

What I HAVE heard is a certain bar down town has driven off a lot of business. Also the north side of OKC is really picking up as far as entertainment with more bars and restaurants opening up so there is a bit more competition for the entertainment dollar.

[floater]

This is Academy's argument all over again. Bass Pro isn't just a store; it was meant to be an attraction in itself already. Even urbanites like myself have tooled around the ATVs, boats, and golf clubs. I will probably never purchase something at Bass Pro, but it's still fun to walk around.

Whether or not it is the catalyst for LB is debatable, but LB was a lost cause before then. IMO, when Hogan decided to develop it in pad sites, the chance for a new urban environment ended. Instead formulating a master plan with buildings forming an urban wall around the canal, he did it piecemeal. This alone isn't a crime; it's the fact that it looks piecemeal. Instead of empty spaces within new buildings you have empty lots between standalone buildings, ala suburbia.

Anyway, I second the ideas of bringing in local retailers and a craft village. That is the answer to Spartan's question about what to do at that end. Destroy Bass Pro, keep that inlet, and develop around it. Have storefronts facing that and Reno. Bricktown is in desparate need of diversions and shopping.

[BDP]

Still have to keep in mind companies aren't beating down the door to come here

Where would they go!? There never was any plan to even build buildings which would house any retail, so the retail anchor pitch was a lie and a scam from the beginning. Basically, there was no plan at all. If you were a business, especially a very successful retail business, would you commit a location in a development with no plan?

Like you said, they weren't knocking down the door to locate here and we did the exact opposite thing we should have done: we publicly financed a big box store, which committed a lot of the prime property along the canal to parking, and established ZERO plan to foster retail in the area. There isn't even any plans for anything that could be considered a plaza or retail oriented facility. Basically, we were sold Bass Pro as a retail anchor for an area that had absolutely no plan to even become a retail district. Forget that Bass Pro is a ridiculous anchor for an urban retail district to begin with, there is no retail district at all and there was no plan for one when we bought into it.

No doubt bricktown has lost some steam and that has a lot to do with the strange ideas by developers. Again, there is no large competition for access into bricktown, yet rental rates are that of a full district doing above average volume per square feet. If people aren’t begging to come here, why do we keep hearing about developers turning away locals and entrepreneurs?

There is a reason that large nationals are not knocking down the door to locate there and it’s because it’s poorly managed and half assed at best. National chains want to see comprehensive plans. To this day, there is not one for lower bricktown and its ability to attract big name tenants will not get any better until it gets one.

[Patrick]

It seems like all of the buildings Hogan built have been leased. In the original plans, I always thought 3 or 4 story buildings with open retail space for lease were part of the plan. At least that's what the pictures showed.

Take the open pad spot next to Toby Keiths. Why can't Hogan just build a 6 story building, lease out the top 4 floors to private offices, and lease the lower two floors to retail and restaurants? I don't see what's so hard about that.

Instead of having pad sites for certain restaurants to locate, he should've built large buildings and leased out the space. Toby Keiths should have never been a stand alone building. It should've been located in a larger building with other tenants.

[Patrick]

Oh, there was a plan for a huge retail district, but it wasn't from Hogan.

The reason I always liked Moshe Tal's plan was because he had certain sections of Lower Bricktown designated for certain types of development, which he called "nodes." And he actually had a master plan that was to be completed over a 10 year time frame, something Urban Renewal thought was too long and ambitious at that time, but now we're seeing it's taken Hogan at least that long to throw together his joke of a development.

Where the theater and Centennial Building is currently located was slated for a high rise Marriott Hotel (20-30 stories) and a 3 level shopping mall, for upscale shops (would've been about the size of the Galleria Mall in Dallas). Where the Sonic Building is located was slated for ESPN Zone and Hard Rock Cafe, both of which David Cordish had agreements from to build here. They would've been part of the lower level of the extending mall/retail building which would've been connected over the canal by skybridges.

Underneath the mall would've been a 4 level parking garage, and above the parking garage inside the mall would've been an 8-10 screen movie theater, plenty large for that area IMHO.

Where the Bass Pro Shop now sits would've been a Country Music Hall of Fame and Auditorium Center, larger than Toby Keith's and more versatile in uses. Toby Keith's probably could've leased out the bottom level. Next door would've been the internation HQ for the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame, which is now in the First National Center. Both of these "nodes", as he called them, would've been built right up on the canal.

Where the movie theater lot now sits was slated to be the Arts and Crafts village, a series of small buildings similar to Paseo only more in a village arrangement. He had agreements from some of the artists in Paseo to set up 2nd retail locations there. In the same area would've been a permanent Farmer's Market.

Unlike Hogan, Tal had plans south of I-40 and designated this an area for mixed use, where he planned a residential tower and an office tower, both with retail and restaurant space for lease on the bottom floors. He envisioned the canal switching from a more entertainment-oriented venue up north, to a more park-like, neighborhood setting farther south.

David Cordish was going to build and finance all of this, and lease out the space as he signed on tenants. Total investment was well over $400 million at the time....probably would've been almost double this now with inflation.

Now, we basically have no space for lease, except maybe some in the Sonic Building, but that isn't as conducive to retail/restaurant uses.

There were NO surface lots included in the plan, as the buildings were so densely packed into the land that there wouldn't have been space.

[Patrick]

Here are the pictures we were promised from Hogan:

[Patrick]

Entertainment’s OK in

Oklahoma City’s Bricktown District

Entertainment and specialty retail will find another home in America’s heartland with the anticipated spring 2000 opening of Bricktown Entertainment Center in the old warehouse district of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

The $120 million, 400,000-square-foot project under design by Perkowitz + Ruth Architects, Inc. (949-721-8904), will revolve around a $30 million, 22-screen Edwards megaplex theater featuring an IMAX 3D component, plus 75,000 to 80,000 square feet of retail and restaurants in phase one, a colorful boulevard with kiosks for retailers, cafes, a high-tech video arcade, a new canal weaving through the complex, and extensive landscaping. Phase two includes a mid-size hotel and additional retail.
Names of other tenants were not released, but project sources said they have an eye on a high-tech restaurant/entertainment entity that would occupy 40,000 square feet.

Crafting a Visionary Oasis

"We are crafting what should be a visionary oasis where a diversity of entertainment, retail and commercial elements will attract local residents and visitors to a very special destination," commented Marios Savopoulos, director of design at Perkowitz + Ruth’s Newport Beach office.
The project’s developer is TMK/Hogan (405-270-4659), a joint venture between Hogan Property Management LLC of Oklahoma City and Stonegate Management Co., of Birmingham, Alabama, a wholly owned subsidiary of Torchmark Co., a publicly traded insurance and diversified financial services holding company.
Bricktown is the name given to the city’s warehouse district for its predominance of brick buildings. The Bricktown Entertainment Center is being built on 50 acres of vacant land where some of the smaller warehouse buildings once stood but were acquired and demolished by the city over the years. The new center will continue the theme with the liberal use of decorative brick, cobblestone-like pavers, slate accents and textured concrete, and will expand on an already popular community of restaurants in downtown Oklahoma City. According to Randy Hogan of Hogan Property Management, the warehouse district began converting to restaurants and office uses many years ago and now contains a variety of trendy spots such as Spaghetti Warehouse, Obuelo’s, Chilini’s, Bricktown Brewery and Crabtown.

Area Attractions Draw Crowds

Visitors to Bricktown topped 3.6 million in 1997, Hogan said, partly due to the restaurant traffic and partly for a series of events such as the annual Blues Festival and the July 4th celebration, which draws 40,000 to 60,000 people each year. The University of Oklahoma in Norman is a half-hour drive away and provides considerable customer flow on weekends, Hogan said.
At the core of Bricktown Entertainment Center will stand the 134,000-square-foot Edwards Theatres complex framed by two enclosed lobbies ­ a grand lobby for entrance and tickets, followed by an inner lobby for concessions. The 22 screens will accommodate 6,000 customers in extra-wide seats with state-of-the-art projection and audio equipment. Hogan said Edwards expects to draw 1.5 million viewers annually, adding that he hopes the Bricktown Center will boost the district’s total traffic to between 5 million and 7 million.
The nearest comparable movie theater is a new 20-screen Cinemark Tinseltown about four miles away in the northeast sector of the city, according to David Jones of the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority (OCURA). "There may be an old movie theater closer in, but I don’t think so," Jones said, adding that he considers the Cinemark theater "a bit of a gamble" because there has been little retail development in that area, whereas Bricktown has an established traffic flow.

Massive Infusion of Public Funds

Bricktown’s revitalization is the result of a "massive infusion of public funds over the past 10 years," Jones said, transforming the area from a vast array of abandoned buildings to a thriving office and entertainment district by beefing up police patrols, improving streets and lighting and funding new public buildings. Yet to come in the district are a Hammond Hotel, a Renaissance Marriott and the new arena, all within walking distance of the entertainment project, he said.
Phase one, which also will include 75,000 to 80,000 square feet of retail and restaurants, Savopoulos said, is expected to cost about $47 million, including the canal and public amenities. In the second phase will be a mid-size hotel and additional retail, bringing the total project price tag to $120 million. The cost of the hotel alone could be $70 million to $80 million, he said.
"As conceived by the development and design team, Bricktown will emerge as a signature destination, enhanced by the use of theatrical lighting design, colorful building materials and a landscaping concept orchestrated with every architectural and planning element of the project," Savopoulos said.

Architects Help Set the Ambience

Perkowitz + Ruth is working with city officials on the design and construction of canal walks, fountains and plazas to provide the links between Bricktown Entertainment Center features and the rest of the Bricktown area. Bricktown is one of nine projects in a massive downtown revitalization project being conducted by the OCURA (405-235-3771). Public contributions to this project include a $28 million AAA baseball stadium for the Oklahoma Redhawks and an $18 million canal bringing water from the North Canadian River almost a mile away, according to Garner Stoll, city planning director.
The baseball stadium is directly across the street from the Bricktown Entertainment Center site, and a proposed 20,000-seat arena for ice hockey, basketball and other indoor events will be at the western end of the site. The canal, which will be accessible to the boating public, will enter the site from the north and weave through, passing directly across the front of the theater in a bowl-like public plaza, surrounded by broad brick-stepped terraces, which could be used as an amphitheater for outdoor stage events.
The public projects are being paid for through a Metropolitan Area Project (MAPS) tax program consisting of a one percent sales tax for five years that is expected to net $360 million. Other projects include a fairgrounds, a new convention center, a hockey/basketball arena, renovations to the performing arts center, a new library, reconstruction of the bombed-out Federal Building and the surrounding area, plus a memorial and museum related to the Federal Building bombing.

$24 Million (Private) for a Museum

A unique feature is a $24 million art museum being built downtown entirely with non-public funds, including $6 million from the Kirkpatrick Foundation, to replace the current city-owned museum located by the fairgrounds on the edge of the city, and which is too small to display all the art it owns, Stoll said.
The MAPS program ­ which originally anticipated $240 million and has now grown to $360 million ­ ends in January, 1999, and will result in debt-free financing for the public projects, although city officials are seeking an extension of the MAPS tax because they need about $11 million more.

Striking the Deal

TMK/Hogan and Edwards Theatres Circuits Inc. paid $3 million for the land they will use, but the Urban Redevelopment Authority put that $3 million back into development of amenities along the canal. "You could say they got free land," said Stoll.
City council has set a January deadline for final development contracts to be executed, and groundbreaking will follow, according to Stoll. The final choice by the city council of TMK/Hogan was "a very controversial selection," Stoll said. The developer had been selected already, when a competing proposal from another local firm forced a showdown. A council vote to reconsider the developer selection ended in a 5-4 vote in favor of TMK/Hogan last May. Wounds from that battle are "healing," said Stoll.

"This is our first entertainment center," Hogan said. "We’re fairly active in retail in the area," he said, noting that his firm represents Home Depot in the Oklahoma City area and is developing a waterfront restaurant on nearby Lake Hefner. Torchmark developed Rancho LaQuinta Country Club in LaQuinta, California, where the "Skins" game is played, and Liberty Park, a 2,500 acre upscale planned community in Vestavia Hills, Alabama, outside Birmingham. The development includes retail and office complexes of a traditional nature.
Management and leasing will be handled by TMK/Hogan and financing is not yet settled, Hogan said. "We have a couple of options, with letters of intent. We’ll start on that next month." Groundbreaking for the Edwards Theater is scheduled for April, 1999, and the grand opening is set for April, 2000.

[Easy180]

Some of Tal's plans are good, but also included those dreaded chain restaurants that some of you guys don't want in bricktown....I could also do w/o the country hall of fame

And why steal business from the Paseo district if we could just as easily go there

Good and bad in both developers plans, but there is no guarantee Tals plans would have turned out any better

I don't know who would have done better, but I just don't have any major problems with how bricktown is turning out...Still enjoy going there

[ChristianConservative]

I could also do w/o the country hall of fame

Would've been better than Toby Keith's restaurant.

Good and bad in both developers plans, but there is no guarantee Tals plans would have turned out any better

Couldn't have been any worse.

I don't know who would have done better, but I just don't have any major problems with how bricktown is turning out...

Then you must like the suburbs.

[Midtowner]

Some of Tal's plans are good, but also included those dreaded chain restaurants that some of you guys don't want in bricktown....I could also do w/o the country hall of fame

And why steal business from the Paseo district if we could just as easily go there

Good and bad in both developers plans, but there is no guarantee Tals plans would have turned out any better

I don't know who would have done better, but I just don't have any major problems with how bricktown is turning out...Still enjoy going there

Hard Rock & ESPN Zone > Sonic and whatever the flavor du jour is in the former Nothing But Noodles spot.

Tal was screwed. Hogan was friends with Humphreys, undue influence occured, Oklahoma City loses in the end.

[ChristianConservative]

Hard Rock & ESPN Zone > Sonic and whatever the flavor du jour is in the former Nothing But Noodles spot.

Tal was screwed. Hogan was friends with Humphreys, undue influence occured, Oklahoma City loses in the end.

Yes!

[Easy180]

We can all badmouth how it's turned out, but as we know plans fall through so there is no way to know how Tal's original concept would have materialized

Couldn't be any worse...Absolutely it could

As for Sonic...Since we only have a handful of larger Oklahoma based companies left I say let them build their HQ wherever they please

[ChristianConservative]

We can all badmouth how it's turned out, but as we know plans fall through so there is no way to know how Tal's original concept would have materialized

Plans fall through? How can plans fall through when you have no deals to begin with? Randy Hogan was making a lot of promises he knew he couldn't keep. He said he had deals signed to bring Edwards Theatres to town. That wasn't true. Then he said he had a deal signed to bring Sega Gameworks to town. That wasn't true. How much more are you going to believe Randy Hogan's lies.

This isn't the only project he's lied on. He lied to the citizens of Oklahoma City when he won approval to develop Lake Hefner. He promised retail, a bike shop for bike and roller blade rentals, and a boardwalk. I see none of that. All I see is ritsy offices for his buddies.

Couldn't be any worse...Absolutely it could

No, it couldn't be worse. The mound of dirt was nicer than what's currently there. At least it would be easier to find a new developer who could put a nicer development plan together. Now the land is used, and we can't do that. The damage been done. The land has been turned into a collection of concrete pre-fab buildings, no different than a strip mall on Memorial Rd. Go out to PF Changs sometime on Memorial Rd. The center court there in the midst of the restaurants looks similar to a Randy Hogan development. And that is on Memorial Rd.

As for Sonic...Since we only have a handful of larger Oklahoma based companies left I say let them build their HQ wherever they please

How about a Sonic Tower in the CBD? If they're that important of a company to our city, than they should respect what we're trying to accomplish downtown.

[Midtowner]

Conservative -- I really like what you're preaching as far as your vision for this city. I understand you're reasonably well connected (you have to be to get on the state fair board). If you ever want to run for office, you'll have my support.

[ChristianConservative]

Conservative -- I really like what you're preaching as far as your vision for this city. I understand you're reasonably well connected (you have to be to get on the state fair board). If you ever want to run for office, you'll have my support.

I'm not sure I'd much of a chance of winning if I ran for city office. I'm not well liked by the city state government. They know how I feel about helping your friends vs. doing what's right.

[mburlison]

I think definitely that companies look at beautification, the arts, the schools, the general atmosphere of a city when they consider moving to it. I do believe, though, that they may not be looking for the things we think they are. You'd be surprised how many want to get AWAY from the Left and East coast situations to more of a rock-solid environment in which to raise their kids and at the same time, enjoy a nice lifestyle. I know that wasn't the point made in the thread, just throwing it out there that we need not mimick "everything" about L.A., NYC, Baltimore, Philadelphia etc...

Another thing, does the job we did on GM (tax give then take away) still haunt us?

[ChristianConservative]

Another thing, does the job we did on GM (tax give then take away) still haunt us?

Yes, you shouldn't give tax incentives to a corporation, then take them back after the plant is built.

[BG918]

I think commuter rail should be a higher priority. Having rail from suburbs like Edmond, Moore, and Norman will give commuters from these areas another option instead of driving on I-35. Plus it could be the catalyst for more downtown development in the form of more offices and entertainment options as both rail line from the north and south would converge in downtown in between the CBD and Bricktown. Light rail could follow...

As for Bricktown, I was down there last night. I don't like the parking lots but within a few years I could see them redeveloped and a large, single parking garage built instead. There are about five lots around the theater, Sonic, and Bass Pro that could easily be redeveloped into residential with ground floor retail/restaurants. It will be interesting to see what kind of plans there will be for the new downtown blvd., it has real potential to be the main "drag" downtown with a wide mix of urban-scale retail along both sides.

[Midtowner]

Yes, you shouldn't give tax incentives to a corporation, then take them back after the plant is built.

The state shouldn't allow a group like OIA to exist and grant unconstitutional benefits to corporations.

It's a good thing Jan Eric Cartwright led the charge in the eventual dismantling of the OIA. I'm very proud of him for doing that. He was a great man, he would have had those OIA criminals in prison on various charges had Gaylord not convinced a rather stupid electorate that Mike Turpin (MIKE TURPIN!) was the better man for the job.