OKC Mayor Race 2014

[BoulderSooner]

The City's legal guy who wrote the Ballot admitted this would have been the best way to do it when grilled by Councilman Shadid, but stated that the Mayor/Council made a "policy" decision.

that is not what he said .... he said it would have been one way to do it .. he did not say the best way ..

[warreng88]

I guess for Larry, the best thing to do is under promise and over achieve. What if they came out and said $120 million will get us four miles of streetcar. Then, when it comes back that we get 5-6 with that same amount of money, everybody's happy? No, people will be saying, "I am not going to vote yes for $30 million/mile when the average is $20 million/mile! Why can't we get six miles of streetcar?" They went with the information provided to them with the research they did.

I knew for a fact that there was going to have to be a phase 2 of the convention center when San Antonio just approved $325 million for an expansion of 684,000 sq ft.

I knew $250 million wasn't going to get us a brand new perfect convention center. There were rumblings that $50 million or so was going to have to be used as incentive to built a CC Hotel.

Maybe I knew about this because I am very active on this board and read the business section of the Oklahoman, Tulsa World and the Gazette every day.

I guess I am in the crowd where the ends justify the means. If we had to double the cost of the original MAPS to get what we did (which, if you are not aware is an NBA team, world class rowing events, a vibrant downtown and city overall, top of the line horse shows, a revamped civic center, the canal and the top AAA baseball stadium in the country) then SO BE IT! I would be willing to do more than just give $0.01 in sales tax for every dollar spent in this city to keep us doing what we are doing.

[zookeeper]

Who makes the editorial decisions for the City Sentinel? Who reads it? There might only be two of you. I'm joking, but the City Sentinel endorsement is even less meaningful than the Friday newspaper's endorsement of Mick Cornett.

The City Sentinel didn't endorse Shadid. It was just one story looking at Shadid's alternative ideas. I doubt the Sentinel will be endorsing Shadid for Mayor as long as Pat McGuigan has anything to do with the newspaper.

[Bellaboo]

nm

[Bellaboo]

The City Sentinel didn't endorse Shadid. It was just one story looking at Shadid's alternative ideas. I doubt the Sentinel will be endorsing Shadid for Mayor as long as Pat McGuigan has anything to do with the newspaper.

krisb thinks it did.....

[betts]

The City Sentinel didn't endorse Shadid. It was just one story looking at Shadid's alternative ideas. I doubt the Sentinel will be endorsing Shadid for Mayor as long as Pat McGuigan has anything to do with the newspaper.

Sorry. I assumed there had been an announcement in the paper along with the story.

[LakeEffect]

The City Sentinel didn't endorse Shadid. It was just one story looking at Shadid's alternative ideas. I doubt the Sentinel will be endorsing Shadid for Mayor as long as Pat McGuigan has anything to do with the newspaper.

No, but the stories they've posted about Shadid have appeared cut-and-paste of press releases or campaign materials...

[krisb]

I was only responding to the previous statement that it was an endorsement, that's why I put the word endorse in quotes. Perhaps I should have began with, "If that were the case...". I saw it as an article in a newspaper, nothing else.

[krisb]

krisb thinks it did.....

I was only responding to the previous statement that it was an endorsement, that's why I put the word endorse in quotes. Perhaps I should have began with, "If that were the case...". I saw it as an article in a newspaper, nothing else.

Sorry for the duplicate post above.

[kevinpate]

Looks like 49 other states have found a way to make it work.

Young sir, perhaps, though also somewhat irrelevant.

I did not indicate if changing the property tax structure is a grand thought or an Alexander thought. Merely that it can only happen with the Legislature being on board.

Again, pitch the idea to your local rep. and senator that the property tax should be fair game for play by cities and towns. Then report back.

Perhaps there are many who would make this a cornerstone of their 2014 reelection campaigns. Not the bet I would lay down, but to each their own chips.

[Dubya61]

You are right. But that wont stop him from repeating the same thing, over and over, and over again.

It's almost like he's taking a stance ... almost.

[PhiAlpha]

It's almost like he's taking a stance ... almost.

Or he's been listening to the same broken record for the last 15 years...

I get wanting the projects to be voted on separately, but the overpromised and underdelivered, failed to deliver on time thing? Give me a freaking break. Go downtown and take a look around for a little while. The ends justify the means. The Devon Tower didn't turn out exactly as it was proposed, it is 4 floors shorter. Does that mean it's some type of failure? MAPS 1 and likely MAPS 3 when all is said and done could have been executed better, but I am far more than happy with how MAPS 1 ended up and I'm sure I won't feel that much differently about 3. Most massive city or state projects are not going to turn out how they are originally proposed. I'd much rather dream big and have to scale back a little then never shoot for it at all. You can always add on to projects in the future.

[PhiAlpha]

In a completely surprising move, the FOP has endorsed Ed Shadid for Mayor of OKC...

Fraternal Order Of Police To Back OKC Mayor's Challenger - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

[Midtowner]

Still stinging from losing the MAPS III vote...

[SoonerDave]

In a completely surprising move, the FOP has endorsed Ed Shadid for Mayor of OKC...

Fraternal Order Of Police To Back OKC Mayor's Challenger - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

In other news, Water is Wet, Sky is Blue, and Marriage Found as Leading Cause of Divorce....

[kevinpate]

And PT Barnum rolls over, smiles and gives another little wink

[Larry OKC]

That might have been true had he not kicked off his campaign so incompetently. I'm not sure who designed his campaign, but his thinly-veiled strategy of having a lackey declare war on MAPS, he alienated, oh, nearly everyone in town. With the exception of Larry, I suppose. And you.

That's two.

Make it one. While I agree with him on most issues and MAPS 3 being unconstitutional, he lost my vote for Mayor. For many of the "flip-flops" that others have detailed, but also for breaking the most basic promise to his constituents, that he will serve his entire term. If he is elected Mayor, there is still 1 year to go on his Council seat.

The article starts by explaining how his entire proposal violates state law. …

Oh the irony…LOL

And for the nonce. the GO Bond issue is estimated to occur in 2019 with the possibility of another MAPS in 2017. ...

2019? What's pushing it back - needing to do Maps first?

That was an estimate by city finance a few months ago related to the Bond rating, values, and letting. I guess it could change, but that I thought 2017 too and they suggested otherwise.

Did they change their mind & push it back? Granted the link below essentially says they won't do another bond election before 2017….

City of Oklahoma City | 2007 Bond Issue Proposal

How often are bond issue elections held?
Oklahoma City last held bond issue elections in 1989, 1995 and 2000, so they've been spaced roughly five or six years apart. Since this is a 10-year bond issue, the next bond election won't be until 2017.

warreng88: that would be better than what they do now is over promise and under achieve.


BoulderSooner & Sid: I went back and watched the video and I stand corrected, it was one way to do it (the "best way" comment was in there somewhere but not precisely on that point)...Page 24 of this thread, post #582) benign at the 52:30 mark:

Shadid asks the Municipal Counselor
Kenneth D. Jordan, if the projects could have been mentioned (to prevent the Council from diverting money from one purpose to another), on the Ballot (like they were in MAPS 1 as a all-or-nothing). The answer was that you could have but would have had to have come up with a single subject where you could unite all of those various projects which would probably not be possible to do…that you would need multiple propositions.
Does the Single Subject rule apply to cities? Mr. Jordan agreed and also agreed that logrolling wasn't allowed. You can't make the voter's choose between unpopular and popular projects in hopes to get the unpopular ones to pass. He was having trouble putting it into worse but said a good example is you couldn't put the Convention Center and Senior Centers into the same proposition. Might have been able to put the Wellness Centers and the Park under a Parks & Recreation proposition.
Apparently quoting Mr. Jordan again…
Taxation can not be the single subject of the ordinance because it is too broad…it appears impossible to include a mandate for all of the MAPS 3 projects in one limited purpose or special purpose ordinance…can't combine the Fairgrounds improvements with the Recreation Centers because it would leave the voter with the "unpalatable all-or-nothing choice" … we can't be too ambitious and try to unite too many items in case the Supreme Court decides to disagree how we tried to unite them into a single ordinance and proposition.
So then there was a choice, once the City came down to the 8 projects, to list them separately or put the 8 projects together, Shadid asks if there was anything that prevented the City from listing the projects as separate propositions. The answer was no, that it was a policy decision. Shadid went on to say that the City misled voters by saying they had to put everything into one all-or-nothing ballot (that they "must" do it that way). That the City tried to circumvent the body of laws and the State Supreme Court.

Taken in their entirety, Mr. Shadid's conclusions are correct. (Not that I am going to vote for him for Mayor).

[Midtowner]

Oh the irony…LOL

Show me where Maps III is unequivocally unconstitutional and I'll concede the point. Again, you're reaching your seemingly concrete conclusion, so I'll again ask you what sort of legal expertise do you have which allows you to reach this conclusion? I've given you the law and applied it to these facts. For the Court to say this is unconstitutional would be another ratchet past where we're at now. Right now, did the bill have a single subject? Yes. Money for capital improvements for OKC. Is it being spent on anything but that? Nope. Can it be? Nope. It has to be spent on capital improvements. Did the voters have a clear choice as to whether they wanted capital improvements? You betcha--much to the chagrin of police/fire who want to raise your taxes to hire more public safety workers without addressing the issue of sales tax revenue to begin with--which MAPS III does and will be responsible for huge growth in sales and ad valorem revenues.

Taken in their entirety, Mr. Shadid's conclusions are correct. (Not that I am going to vote for him for Mayor).

If you feel misled, you were living under a rock and didn't read the ballot. The question as to whether this money could be diverted from the 8 projects has been thoroughly discussed in the public sphere.The only way the voters could be misled is if they didn't understand what capital improvement means.

[soonerguru]

Show me where Maps III is unequivocally unconstitutional and I'll concede the point. Again, you're reaching your seemingly concrete conclusion, so I'll again ask you what sort of legal expertise do you have which allows you to reach this conclusion? I've given you the law and applied it to these facts. For the Court to say this is unconstitutional would be another ratchet past where we're at now. Right now, did the bill have a single subject? Yes. Money for capital improvements for OKC. Is it being spent on anything but that? Nope. Can it be? Nope. It has to be spent on capital improvements. Did the voters have a clear choice as to whether they wanted capital improvements? You betcha--much to the chagrin of police/fire who want to raise your taxes to hire more public safety workers without addressing the issue of sales tax revenue to begin with--which MAPS III does and will be responsible for huge growth in sales and ad valorem revenues.



If you feel misled, you were living under a rock and didn't read the ballot. The question as to whether this money could be diverted from the 8 projects has been thoroughly discussed in the public sphere.The only way the voters could be misled is if they didn't understand what capital improvement means.

Should we start a separate thread for Larry? How about "Larry's Musings on City Government, Right and Wrong"? It could serve as a place for Larry to critique all city issues, from MAPS to city bond elections. Then, we could get back to discussion on the mayoral race.

[kevinpate]

I'm not certain the OKC mayoral race for 2014 and M3 will ever become separate discussions until the votes are counted, and possibly several months beyond.
Not saying it ought to be that way. Just it seems headed that direction.

[Midtowner]

Should we start a separate thread for Larry? How about "Larry's Musings on City Government, Right and Wrong"? It could serve as a place for Larry to critique all city issues, from MAPS to city bond elections. Then, we could get back to discussion on the mayoral race.

I'm sure we could all benefit to hear his "expert" opinions on these matters.
=

[krisb]

South OKC on the path to victory for Shadid | 200 Walker OKC

[betts]

That headline is a bit misleading and grammatically a bit iffy.

[Urban Pioneer]

I really don't know why this guy keeps reffering to the Hunt election as relevant data. There isn't really any relevant comparative data except for the MAPS 3 election. And even that could be considered as something of a stretch.

[DoctorTaco]

I really don't know why this guy keeps reffering to the Hunt election as relevant data. There isn't really any relevant comparative data except for the MAPS 3 election. And even that could be considered as something of a stretch.

There is not much data available. Dude is doing the best he can.