OG&E Tower

[kwhey]

How full is First National Center. Or are the facts on the FNC page old and outdated?

[Just the facts]

FNC isn't class A. It is class C. If not for a corrupt owner that is getting ready to go to jail for 30 days FNC would be on its way to redevelopment already.

[kwhey]

Gotcha. I don't just want to buildings just for the sake of filling the skyline. I want to make sure they to capacity or close it.

[GoOKC1991]

This city's skyline will eventually be Dallas like...not that it should, but it will be.

[Just the facts]

I suspect that any 'mostly vacant' downtown building that isn't already converted (or in the process of being converted) to office will be converted to housing/hotel. This is where Rick Dowell is losing lots and lots of money. If he would have worked with a residential developer for the Dowell Center he would be collecting rent right now.

[ljbab728]

FNC isn't class A. It is class C. If not for a corrupt owner that is getting ready to go to jail for 30 days FNC would be on its way to redevelopment already.

Exactly right. Any unused office space in the FNC has nothing to do with demand. Class A office space in downtown is in very short supply and new space will be snapped up quickly in whatever new towers are built.

[ljbab728]

Gotcha. I don't just want to buildings just for the sake of filling the skyline. I want to make sure they to capacity or close it.

I promise that no developer is going to build a new tower just to fill up the skyline.

[Plutonic Panda]

I promise that no developer is going to build a new tower just to fill up the skyline.

unfortunately, you're right. lol

[Spartan]

Yay. Another tall building in downtown. How about we fill up the other buildings first.

Lolwut?

[Spartan]

True, but once you add its location back to the mix, residential use makes a great deal of sense, even though it is headed another direction.
Beautiful, when properly maintained, park to the east.
New elementary school to the west
Excellent library a short stroll away.
Close in to many employment opportunities in a wide, wide range.

I agree mixed-use should be considered the highest and best use but it's not. OKC wants new office skyscrapers, nothing more or less, I guess.

[Rover]

There are a great number of open spaces in the immediate area suitable for residential. Sometimes best use is to provide a facility suitable for housing high paying jobs which supports residential growth. This should be a great facility in a good spot to draw companies willing to invest in high quality jobs.

[catch22]

I don't think we are going to see a ton of mixed use large projects for the short term future.

As long as we have large amounts of open space, you will have basically single use structures. When vacant land becomes scarce, developers will need to diversify the use of their land developments to get a maximum return on investment.

[Spartan]

There are a great number of open spaces in the immediate area suitable for residential. Sometimes best use is to provide a facility suitable for housing high paying jobs which supports residential growth. This should be a great facility in a good spot to draw companies willing to invest in high quality jobs.

These jobs don't necessarily support downtown residential growth. An inordinate portion of downtown residents still commute home TO downtown from the suburbs.

And likewise, there are a great number of open spaces in the immediate area suitable for office. It's just that OKC development does have warped priorities.

[Rover]

Yes, jobs and commerce sure are warped....who needs them. We can all work for min wage and support a great city. Lol.

[HOT ROD]

also, I'm sure (and rightfully so) that downtown will always have more jobs/employment that will draw on the suburbs. We surely do not want it to be the other way around do we?

What we want is a healthy downtown business district with healthy entertainment and residential districts ringing the CBD; hence the design of downtown OKC as it is today. The main issue aside from the healthy CBD (which we're working on, significantly - thankfully) is the residential population (which we're also working on, organically - thankfully). These all take time but I am sure things will be like we all want in about 5-10 years.

I must say it is nice that OKC has its medical district (hence a 2ndary CBD) so close by. Having the Oklahoma Health Center + the Capitol Campus only 2 miles or less away takes the pressure off the CBD to be the high wage earner by itself, which is what is making central OKC successful right now until the CBD can reach critical mass (say 50,000+ office workers).

[BDP]

Some people are actually saying that Oklahoma City needs stop building skyscappers because of the fact that we have so many tornadoes

That would be a very bizarre thing to say. There reason it feels like we have more tornadoes now is because they do more damage and the reason they do more damage is because development keeps spreading out, effectively creating a larger target. You can never predict exactly where a tornado will go or what it will hit, even when its happening, but the odds of one hitting something go up the more cities spread out.

[Anonymous.]

That would be a very bizarre thing to say. There reason it feels like we have more tornadoes now is because they do more damage and the reason they do more damage is because development keeps spreading out, effectively creating a larger target. You can never predict exactly where a tornado will go or what it will hit, even when its happening, but the odds of one hitting something go up the more cities spread out.

This concept is actually very difficult to understand for general population (especially outside of tornado areas). It amazes me how many people think it is actually easy to get hit by tornados.

[Spartan]

Yes, jobs and commerce sure are warped....who needs them. We can all work for min wage and support a great city. Lol.

Nah jobs are great but for housing we can just throw the little worker bees in some tents or trailers or some other semblance.of workforce housing. Like ND

[Rover]

Nah jobs are great but for housing we can just throw the little worker bees in some tents or trailers or some other semblance.of workforce housing. Like ND

We have plenty of surface lots to build housing on too. We have been doing a pretty good job of getting housing starts downtown, especially affordable housing. Using this location for a Class A office use is a pretty reasonable and high use. Too many on here act like the ONLY thing that is important to build a strong core is cheap apartments and places to get drunk. It is nice to have a strong core of well paying jobs for all us minions to be able to afford those apartments and condos we want, and to have spending money to frequent the cafes and bars. Walking around on the street looking at all the cool urban architecture is not the end all and be all of urban development....affording it is also necessary. Don't know why this isn't considered a good office site by some. Especially since it has already indicated a couple of floors of retail at street level.

[Just the facts]

I must say it is nice that OKC has its medical district (hence a 2ndary CBD) so close by. Having the Oklahoma Health Center + the Capitol Campus only 2 miles or less away takes the pressure off the CBD to be the high wage earner by itself, which is what is making central OKC successful right now until the CBD can reach critical mass (say 50,000+ office workers).

Just think though if downtown, the medical complex, and the capitol complex where all in the same place. Alas, the modernist movement that influenced so much OKC development dictated that every use should be isolated from every other use (business goes over here, medical/education goes over there, government use goes up that way).

[sroberts24]

I tell people all the time, OKC would be just like Austin if we had our capitol district, medical district and OU all downtown.

[BDP]

I tell people all the time, OKC would be just like Austin if we had our capitol district, medical district and OU all downtown.

No doubt.

[Just the facts]

I hope we could do better than Austin - but I know what you mean. I would prefer Madison, WI (which will blow your mind if you aren't familiar with it).

[Spartan]

We have plenty of surface lots to build housing on too. We have been doing a pretty good job of getting housing starts downtown, especially affordable housing. Using this location for a Class A office use is a pretty reasonable and high use. Too many on here act like the ONLY thing that is important to build a strong core is cheap apartments and places to get drunk. It is nice to have a strong core of well paying jobs for all us minions to be able to afford those apartments and condos we want, and to have spending money to frequent the cafes and bars. Walking around on the street looking at all the cool urban architecture is not the end all and be all of urban development....affording it is also necessary. Don't know why this isn't considered a good office site by some. Especially since it has already indicated a couple of floors of retail at street level.

Yes, warped.

Sorry we have so many cheap apartments and places to get drunk, I guess it's that pesky free market thing. Nobody can afford what you'd consider to be not a cheap apartment.

OKC's best development site needs to see a major mixed-use development like the kind we sorely lack, it's that simple. Not another energy corporation. As for this project, as far as I'm concerned we don't have a proposal yet, so your attempts to pigeon hole urbanists in a corner are premature. I don't know if I like this tower or not because I know nothing about it and nor does anyone else.

I'm just saying that I wish we weren't surrounding these beautiful parks with nothing but energy corporations. Your attempt to frame a land use and urban design debate on pro vs anti JOBS is absurd and smacks of trolling.

[Praedura]

I tell people all the time, OKC would be just like Austin if we had our capitol district, medical district and OU all downtown.

Some helicopter flyover videos of Austin for comparison:

Lady Bird Lake Hike and Bike Trail Helicopter Tour in Downtown Austin Texas - YouTube

Helicopter Ride Over Austin - YouTube

Downtown Austin Condo Helicopter Tour 555 Capitol of Texas Terrace on Shoal Creek Nokonah - YouTube