OKC Mayor Race 2014

[betts]

I'm also going to add that my biggest concern about Ed is that he gives no evidence that he cares about the electoral process or the will of the voters. I see that as a totalitarian viewpoint and don't see how that makes him a better person /candidate than those he criticizes.

[soonerguru]

Doug,

I'm not sure which of my remarks weren't "comprehensive thought" in your opinion, so I don't know how to respond. I have taken issue with things Shadid has said in the public record that are well documented. Some of these positions are in contradiction with previous positions Shadid has made.

It is also true that Shadid has not made many of his positions clear to the public, e.g. his position on the streetcar.

Hope you and your wife are fairing well.

[bradh]

After much discussion, what it really boiled down to was: they support MAPS because they visibly see what it is doing. They feel it, and they trust the OKC chamber-types that have been its champions. They don't really trust Washington or anybody there to do what they say or to spend in a way that will show any kind of results.

As the words "progressive" and "conservative" are bandied about with respect to local politics, I think there are strange bedfellows all over the place.

Man this is so true. I have zero problem paying an increased tax if I can actually see where the money is being put to use. The only time or place that happens is on local levels.

[kevinpate]

In light of strange bedfellows and interesting, if somewhat oddly joined coalitions, would it be completely off the wall to wonder if through Shadid and his followers we might be seeing the beginning of a new party - the Green Tea Party?

Probably not as humorous for others as it was when it flitted through my brain, but then, in my head there is so very little resistance.

[Laramie]

The bottom line comes down to this, do we continue with the momentum who have or do we decide that MAPS' renewal is no longer needed for our city?

There is still much to be done for a city of our size which does an outstanding job in managing our growth. Look for a city of our character to begin experiencing accelerated growth heading toward 2020. Some postesr can't look past two years up the road. The really aggressive cities plan five to ten years ahead.

Much of what we have just accomplished in MAPS I & II was proposed way back in the late 60s. It took us forever to get the proposed 15,000-seat Myriad built in 1973 and when finally completed we were about 1,500-seats short of the events for which there was stiff competitive bidding (NCAA finals). Our arena (The Peake) was originally suppose to seat 19,599; patterned much like the 19,911-seat Energy Soluctions Arena in Salt Lake City. We do have comfortable seating for 18,203 which puts us in the middle of current NBA arenas.

Oklahoma City's future will be based entirely upon visionaries who can plan for our citiy's future or we are going to be talking about tearing down the $23 million Myriad we built in 1973 and paid $50 million to renovate in MAPS 1993. We should have gone with our original plans to downsized the Myriad to seat 7,500 in the arena and add exhibition space which we would have now.

What are our future plans for the Chesapeake Energy Arena, Bricktown Ballpark, Library & Bricktown Canal? What are our stadium needs for the future? Can we think outside the box?

We need solid plan for the future if we are going to be prepared to attract the kinds of events, expositions and exhits. Having he facilities in place will make the difference.

[Patrick]

The arena originally had that number of seats (19,163 or something like that) but this was decreased with the addition of the terrace suites.

We already studied plans to downgrade the arena in Cox and convert space to convention use, and all studies indicated it would be cheaper to build a new convention center.

[krisb]

In light of strange bedfellows and interesting, if somewhat oddly joined coalitions, would it be completely off the wall to wonder if through Shadid and his followers we might be seeing the beginning of a new party - the Green Tea Party?

Probably not as humorous for others as it was when it flitted through my brain, but then, in my head there is so very little resistance.

It's awfully hard to pin him down isn't it? That's impressive in a world of caricatures and media-driven stereotypes.

[betts]

Actually, being hard to pin down is not a positive attribute in a politician.

[catch22]

Actually, being hard to pin down is not a positive attribute in a politician.

Exactly, you want to know what representation you are voting for. You don't want to be voting for a wandering politician.

[Doug Loudenback]

As I've said, my final opinion, and vote, is yet to be formed, and probably won't be until after the mayoral contestants begin answering the hard questions which should be rightly be posed to both of them, and that will likely only occur many months from now.

But, for many if not most of you, it appears that your minds are already made up, even before such answers are given by the candidates. I fail to see an even-handedness here in even a preliminary analysis of the candidates, well before they are called upon to give their answers to their respective sets of tough questions. As I see it, both candidates have some tough questions to answer. Shadid has some tough questions to answer, but, then again, so does Cornett.

Other than me, I don't see anyone here who is willing to critique and/or fault Mayor Cornett, who worked hand in hand with David Thompson during the MAPS 3 campaign, for his role during the MAPS 3 campaign. None, other than me, apparently see it is as a blemish to the mayor that (1) he was complicit in the stifling of the press (at least, the Oklahoman's part of it) during the MAPS 3 campaign, and (2) the campaign included at least some measure of deceit in not mentioning that a convention hotel would also require a substantial measure of public funding, at least in part, during the MAPS 3 campaign, over and above the taxpayer costs via the MAPS 3 sales tax.

It is almost as though you who have already made your minds as to whom you will vote are quite willing to give Mayor Cornett a pass on any and everything associated with his role in the MAPS 3 election. I'm not willing to give Shadid a pass on his public transit remarks made in February; neither am I willing to give Cornett a pass on his complicity in stifling the Oklahoman press or misleading voters about the REAL costs of a convention center (i.e., it needing a hotel, to boot, most probably also funded at least in part by the taxpayers.)

If you buy into the proposition that ends justify means, then you may not care about the kinds of issues I've raised concerning Mayor Cornett. That's your privilege. If you want to wait for Shadid to square his downtown streetcar concerns with the fact that voters have already approved that part of the package ... the integrity of the public vote ... then you can join me in waiting for him to make his pitch about that.

But I have little doubt that city government under Shadid would be far more transparent than has been the case with Cornett.

As for me, I'm awaiting the campaign when more information becomes available, all the way around. I'm for everyone having their day in court, so to speak, before final opinions are formed.

Thank you, Soonerguru, for your personal remark ... my wife is doing much better and will hopefully come home in a couple of days or so. Today is her 9th day at the Oklahoma Heart Hospital, which is one heck of a great place.

[Laramie]

The arena originally had that number of seats (19,163 or something like that) but this was decreased with the addition of the terrace suites.

We already studied plans to downgrade the arena in Cox and convert space to convention use, and all studies indicated it would be cheaper to build a new convention center.

Aware that we were going to have to build a new convention center as approved in the MAPS III ballot. They said we needed more exhibiion space. Dowtown hotels were in more demand.

What happened with the $50 million we voted in MAPS I to upgrade the Myriad (Now Cox) Convention Center? Did all of that go to improve the north facade entrance to the arena? Personally, I don't see where $5 million went into improvements of the old Myriad. The restrooms still have the old foot controlled hand washer--which my brother mistakenly urinated in on opening night when Dellas Reese was the guest in 1973s' opening. The $50 million renovation of the Civic Center Music Hall is clearly evident.

You are correct about the 19,163/19,165 figure being the capacity when the NBA arrived (ESPN used that figure in their stadium/Thunder site); however, I remember the 19,599 as being the original figure the DT Indoor Sports Arena was supposed to seat, some of the seats were taken out for camera/media purposes and others were taken out because of the cup holders/new terrace suites/boxes. Still, poor planning and/or design flaws. In all, we lost 1,250-plus seats from the original seating design. What was laughable, the Myriad seats were 19" wide' and the Peakes' seats were 22" wide yet the complaints were targeted toward the Peakes' seats.

[OSUFan]

(2) the campaign included at least some measure of deceit in not mentioning that a convention hotel would also require a substantial measure of public funding, at least in part, during the MAPS 3 campaign, over and above the taxpayer costs via the MAPS 3 sales tax.

I heard it mentioned several times during the campaign that a a convention center hotel would be needed at some point and that public funding would probably be needed. I don't see any deception there at all.

[Laramie]

Doug,

Cornett or Shadid? With whom do we place the future of OKC. I know Mick Cornett's record and it is with certain flaws as you have mentioned. Shadid is a different character in that he has openingly talked about his disapproval with the function of MAPS and its role in advancing our city.

You are correct, it doesn't hurt to listen to both candidates and as you mentioned that most of us have already made up our minds.

[David]

But I have little doubt that city government under Shadid would be far more transparent than has been the case with Cornett.

I'd like to believe we'd know far more about Shadid's stance on transit issues if transparency was his actual goal.

Also, as a fellow David I'm starting to feel a little hurt.

[Doug Loudenback]

I heard it mentioned several times during the campaign that a a convention center hotel would be needed at some point and that public funding would probably be needed. I don't see any deception there at all.

That's not the case, in my recollection, and I covered the MAPS 3 campaign very closely. If you can point to an example supporting what you say, please do so and I will reconsider what I said.

I will wait to see if any of Cornett's issues/flaws receive the same attention and discussion as do Shadid's.

[soonerguru]

I am not aware of your allegation about Cornett controlling what was published in the Oklahoman. Perhaps you are privy to info I am not.

But yes, I have made my mind up to support Cornett. He has done a fabulous job as mayor and I don't trust Shadid any more for several reasons. Sad but true. I also see him as less than transparent -- for example he has turned on the streetcar and is not living up to his campaign promise to build MAPS as it was intended by the voters.

I see one guy who "gets" MAPS and one who doesn't. That simplifies the choice for me but doesn't represent all of the reasons I support the mayor in his reelection.

Most of all, I view Shadid as a divisive figure, which I don't view as a positive attribute for OKC mayor.

I certainly respect your right to disagree.

[Frustratedoptimist]

FWIW, less than 2 cents, I interpreted the transit part of the MAPS 3 vote as a larger, more regional-focused bus system and then once enough funds were secured through a regional tax, we would have commuter rail, then a streetcar. Bus improvements first, commuter rail second, streetcar third. I never thought we would be investing in the streetcar without the other two first. I also assumed that the MAPS funds were to pay for the capital items and equipment only (buses, trains, stops, hubs, etc.) and the regional tax would be in place to pay to operate all of it. I think this was why many voted for MAPS 3 and for Cornett to see it through. Now that I see that the order of things appears to have shifted and priority is with the downtown streetcar, I probably won't support Cornett again. I know RTD2 is underway, but last I heard, it is moving at a snail's pace with Cornett chairing again.

[ljbab728]

I really don't see how you ever got that idea about the last MAPS projects. I never saw anything like being proposed or talked about.

[Snowman]

FWIW, less than 2 cents, I interpreted the transit part of the MAPS 3 vote as a larger, more regional-focused bus system and then once enough funds were secured through a regional tax, we would have commuter rail, then a streetcar. Bus improvements first, commuter rail second, streetcar third. I never thought we would be investing in the streetcar without the other two first. I also assumed that the MAPS funds were to pay for the capital items and equipment only (buses, trains, stops, hubs, etc.) and the regional tax would be in place to pay to operate all of it. I think this was why many voted for MAPS 3 and for Cornett to see it through. Now that I see that the order of things appears to have shifted and priority is with the downtown streetcar, I probably won't support Cornett again. I know RTD2 is underway, but last I heard, it is moving at a snail's pace with Cornett chairing again.

The got several studies done about regional rail and one consistent message was you need the streetcar before the commuter rail, I am not sure if the studies touched much on the normal bus system, at least one included bus rapid line concepts.

Realistically though even getting the current system to take out some of the most underutilized routes, segments of a route or odd quirks has been talked about for years and keeps seeming like we are about to do something. It is apparently just a political nightmare to actually try to relocate resources once you have a system, some of it sounds like it is complected by accepting federal money and rules with what you can do with lines that ridership is mostly low income.

[betts]

FWIW, less than 2 cents, I interpreted the transit part of the MAPS 3 vote as a larger, more regional-focused bus system and then once enough funds were secured through a regional tax, we would have commuter rail, then a streetcar. Bus improvements first, commuter rail second, streetcar third. I never thought we would be investing in the streetcar without the other two first. I also assumed that the MAPS funds were to pay for the capital items and equipment only (buses, trains, stops, hubs, etc.) and the regional tax would be in place to pay to operate all of it. I think this was why many voted for MAPS 3 and for Cornett to see it through. Now that I see that the order of things appears to have shifted and priority is with the downtown streetcar, I probably won't support Cornett again. I know RTD2 is underway, but last I heard, it is moving at a snail's pace with Cornett chairing again.

Here's what is on OKC.gov. I believe the words "rail-based streetcar system" were prominently featured everywhere MAPS 3 was discussed prior to the election. I don't ever remember buses ever being mentioned as part of MAPS 3. I never thought I was voting for anything but a streetcar. I know that when polling was being done prior to the initiatives being created, some people's surveys mentioned they would like to see improvement in the bus system, but that's the last time I ever saw it mentioned.

"A rail-based streetcar system will serve the downtown vicinity, and related transit infrastructure will connect other rail-based systems and/or a multi-modal transit hub. A maintenance facility will be constructed to service the streetcars. The number of miles of track constructed will be determined by available construction dollars. The budget provides for construction of five to six miles of track."

Here's a link to OKC.gov's "Yes For Maps" campaign that was created at the time of the election:

About.com: http://www.yesformaps.com/
In the above link, if you click on "About the proposal" you'll see what was outlined for the transit portion of MAPS while campaigning was underway.

ACOG is hosting meetings on creation of a regional transit system. That's a very ambitious project and I've been impressed that Norman, Edmond and Midwest city leaders are already on board. It is going to move somewhat slowly simply because you have to create consensus among varied groups of people with disparate ideas about what the project should entail and how to fund it. I've actually been impressed with the vision of this group, although I have only attended a couple of meetings. Hutch could probably give a far more comprehensive assessment since he is a member of the group.

[Urban Pioneer]

I interpreted the transit part of the MAPS 3 vote as a larger, more regional-focused bus system... I see that the order of things appears to have shifted....

No offense, but the MAPS 3 program was never promoted as a larger regional bus system once the resolution was passed and the program has not "shifted". Not shifted at all. It was always promoted as being for a rail-based streetcar with a hub and connections to it.

I never heard of it campaigned or promoted otherwise. So to even hint that there might have been a shift of any kind as of yet would be a substantial misnomer.

[warreng88]

I remember hearing that the streetcar and hub were the start and the bus system and rail would come next, but I never heard anything but streetcar and hub for this phase. Maybe for the next GO Bond we will see bus system improvements but rail is going to be on a county level, not city. Correct me if I am wrong.

[CaptDave]

It will take a Regional Transit Authority (like DART) before commuter rail - and an improved bus system - ever comes to central OK. It will involve several municipalities and at least three counties I think, Oklahoma, Cleveland, and Canadian. Maybe more. But that is a couple steps away.

The MAPS streetcar was never advertised as anything other than a downtown circulator system. It will be the "last mile" for people coming to downtown on those future modes of transit. They will arrive at the transit hub that is part of MAPS 3. Oklahoma CIty stepped up to the plate and is building a way for commuters from central Oklahoma to move around once the RTA is established. Otherwise they would have been dumped off at EK Gaylord and left to walk across town to their final destinations. It makes sense to have the "last mile" in place so future modes of transit can be successful while simultaneously providing a quality of life enhancement for people living, working, and visiting downtown now.

[Doug Loudenback]

I am not aware of your allegation about Cornett controlling what was published in the Oklahoman. Perhaps you are privy to info I am not.

Yes, I am. It was the Cornett/Thompson tandem that did so, though, not just the mayor.

[Doug Loudenback]

No offense, but the MAPS 3 program was never promoted as a larger regional bus system once the resolution was passed and the program has not "shifted". Not shifted at all. It was always promoted as being for a rail-based streetcar with a hub and connections to it.

I never heard of it campaigned or promoted otherwise. So to even hint that there might have been a shift of any kind as of yet would be a substantial misnomer.

I completely agree with the accuracy of your statements.