OKC Mayor Race 2014

[Pete]

I would argue that the issues with northwest OKC have to do with TOO MUCH spending on infrastructure in far north OKC.

Basically, the City keeps building roads and providing utilities that only encourage turning cow pastures into tract housing and thus, people keep moving further and further out. And of course, there is absolutely no planning involved... Just rubber stamp every new plat that gets submitted.

I've posted this many times but the huge percentage of the people I went to Putnam City with in '70's now live in the Edmond school district and our old neighborhoods have really gone downhill.

This has much more to do with the City spending funds that encourage ridiculous sprawl. If anything, the investments downtown give people some reason to stay closer in.

[sunshinepatriot]

Regarding the suburban wasteland critique:
http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-...ed-nw-okc.html

Actually, the outdoor/parks were the highest approved program in MAPs 3. Streetcars had more support than dissent, but not a majority in the poll.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griff...ollResults.pdf

I am simply echoing the neighborhoods-first argument brought about by Shadid. By nature, focusing somewhere means that you are not focusing somewhere else. Does that mean I am advocating ceasing the downtown projects? Of course not. But is it dangerous to continue ignoring corridors like 10th street west of Penn? Yes, it will eventually lead to a mobilization of anti-downtown and pro-neighborhood folks.

[CaptDave]

I would argue that the issues with northwest OKC have to do with TOO MUCH spending on infrastructure in far north OKC.

Basically, the City keeps building roads and providing utilities that only encourage turning cow pastures into tract housing and thus, people keep moving further and further out. And of course, there is absolutely no planning involved... Just rubber stamp every new plat that gets submitted.

I've posted this many times but the huge percentage of the people I went to Putnam City with in '70's now live in the Edmond school district and our old neighborhoods have really gone downhill.

This has much more to do with the City spending funds that encourage ridiculous sprawl. If anything, the investments downtown give people some reason to stay closer in.

Agree 100%. The usual cycle of suburban decay is not Mayor Cornett's fault and has nothing to do with MAPS 1, 2, or 3.

Now if one wants to really address sprawl/decay, why not ask why the vast majority of the $700 million bond issue work is going on in the suburban areas? Streets weren't fixed in the inner suburban areas, they were doubled in size along the far extremes further enabling the vicious cycle. Certainly seems like those funds could have been better used. But once again it wasn't Mayor Cornett's "fault"

[Patrick]

From a blog post...

"This race can potentially derail Oklahoma City’s political status quo. If Shadid wins, he will need to learn how to play nice with the downtown growth activists.... If Cornett wins, he must find a way to reconcile complaints from the relatively ignored, quasi-suburban neighborhoods left behind by his MAPs-centric tenure. Failure on either side will potentially jeopardize Oklahoma City’s revitalization efforts."

bit.ly/1ev6yuX

'

Again, I don't know how we've been ignoring the suburbs. I live in the burbs, and frankly, if I see another street reconstruction project around NW 164th, I'm going to puke.

[betts]

Regarding the suburban wasteland critique:
http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-...ed-nw-okc.html

Actually, the downtown park was the highest approved program in MAPs 3. Streetcars had more support than dissent, but not a majority in the poll.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griff...ollResults.pdf

I am simply echoing the neighborhoods-first argument brought about by Shadid. By nature, focusing somewhere means that you are not focusing somewhere else. Does that mean I am advocating ceasing the downtown projects? Of course not. But is it dangerous to continue ignoring corridors like 10th street west of Penn? Yes, it will eventually lead to a mobilization of anti-downtown and pro-neighborhood folks.

The best hope for 10th and Penn is the Plaza District. Restaurant/retail centers usually lead to surrounding gentrification in cities. It's actually good old fashioned capitalism that does the most good in blighted areas. However, that makes the area suddenly unaffordable for those currently living there. To where should they move? Unless we have massive redistribution of wealth, neighborhoods too become a version of whack a mole. You move the have nots to housing projects or they find newly blighted areas in which to live and unless you change something that area becomes the new problem. Fostering neighborhood pride and creating a sense of community works better than almost anything.

But I would agree with previous posters. It's rather condescending and elitist to assume people without a lot of money don't enjoy downtown amenities. They have leisure time too, and aren't really so different from anyone else.

Most of the complainers dont seem to have bothered to educate themselves, though. I don't know how many I've had to tell about the almost billion dollar bond issue we passed, much of which was earmarked for road improvement. Or the ruling about sidewalks. They conveniently forget that there are sidewalks, trails and senior centers MAPS projects outside the core. MAPS is what has created the incredible city-wide momentum we are all enjoying.

[king183]

Cornett barely beat Hunt. You guys are in denial if you think he wins in a landslide. Cornett is a puppet. At least Shadid stands up for the people and what is right and makes sense. He is also not afraid to do so. MAPS 3 is for special interest not the people. Unlike its predecessors.

I've worked in politics basically my entire adult life. In no situation is getting 58% of the vote considered "barely beat(ing)" anyone, especially when you don't actively campaign. In fact, most campaigns would consider garnering 58% a very solid buttkicking.

And, actually, if Cornett wanted to turn truly nasty in this campaign and operate as if he's running typical partisan campaign, which I don't believe he does or will do, he could absolutely DESTROY Shadid in South OKC where Cornett did poorly last time. Just tell all the conservative, Church-going south OKC voters about the details of Shadid's run for the Green Party nomination and it's game over.

Again, I don't think Cornett wants to get partisan because I don't think that's his nature or style, but if push came to shove came ground and pound, I have no doubt Cornett's campaign could unleash an neutron bomb of an attack that would sink Shadid.

I'm a betting man and I'm willing to bet Cornett gets at least 58% of the vote against Shadid in March.

[adaniel]

Regarding the suburban wasteland critique:
http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-...ed-nw-okc.html

You would be wise to go back and read that thread. Most people echoed the decline in rental properties as the main culprit in NW OKC's issues. It is certainly not a wasteland, however. And ironically, save for a precinct or 2, NW OKC was the most enthusiastic about MAPS3.

Actually, the outdoor/parks were the highest approved program in MAPs 3. Streetcars had more support than dissent, but not a majority in the poll.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griff...ollResults.pdf

I consider 49.9% pretty dang close to a majority.

I am simply echoing the neighborhoods-first argument brought about by Shadid. By nature, focusing somewhere means that you are not focusing somewhere else. Does that mean I am advocating ceasing the downtown projects? Of course not. But is it dangerous to continue ignoring corridors like 10th street west of Penn? Yes, it will eventually lead to a mobilization of anti-downtown and pro-neighborhood folks.

It will only lead to a mobilization of anti-downtown types if certain politicians feel the need to create an "us vs. them" mindset in order to get elected, versus confronting the complicated but real consequences of sprawl.

[Mikemarsh51]

Being a surgeon and being mayor are two different things.

Being a sportscaster definitely prepares one to be Mayor!

[Mikemarsh51]

But you cant do it without the usual "poor old, abused public safety BS"

Bro! I was only pointing out the fact that the Mayor is bragging about his accomplishments!

[sunshinepatriot]

And adaniel has come full circle, agreeing with the main point of the argument.

Shadid at least is willing to work on MAPs 3 projects. The next pro-neighborhood guy might take a far more anti-downtown stance. The emergence of a group that is outwardly belligerent towards boosting downtown will be what jeopardizes revitalization. The way to solve this problem before it starts is convincing folks in Cornett's spot to work with the folks in Shadid's spot.

This political pattern can be seen in plenty of cities transitioning from major minor cities to minor major cities. It would be far better to have cooperation (like San Francisco or Atlanta) than to have discord.

[betts]

Regarding the suburban wasteland critique:
http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-...ed-nw-okc.html

People moved to the new shiny houses being built on farmland even farther out in the periphery or in the suburbs. It has everything to do with developers needing to keep developing, as it's their job, and farmland being cheaper than tearing down and rebuilding in the inner city. But again, the more you improve amenities in the center, the more appealing it is to move back to those blighted neighborhoods and revitalize them. Our next generation understands that. If my kids lived here, they'd be buying property near the Plaza, I know. It's just like the neighborhood they live in in Chicago. They're not afraid of a little grunge and don't want everything to be bright and shiny. The next generation will likely be the salvation of our cities, IMO.

[betts]

Shadid at least is willing to work on MAPs 3 projects.

You're sure about this?

[Teo9969]

I've said this before: The "All the investment is going into Downtown" trope that is being discussed in this thread is not only false on the basis that plenty of money is indeed being spent elsewhere in OKC, it's also disingenuous on the basis of centrality of major public projects.

You cannot make the argument that the MAPS park is a downtown development. It's a grand centralized park...it's an investment in NW, NE, SE, SW and Central Oklahoma City, as are many of the other public projects that end up in downtown. You simply can't make the argument that too much money is going downtown without sounding like NW-OKC elitist...people in the other 3 quadrants deserve equitable access to these amenities that are for OKC, not downtown specifically.

The true downtown-specific developments (Streetcar for one) from public monies are probably in the correct proportion to downtown-ish population and suburban-ish population

[CaptDave]

Shadid at least is willing to work on MAPs 3 projects.

You're sure about this?

I think he meant "work over" MAPS projects with mis/disinformation until they are not built as promised.

It is very disappointing Ed has chosen that path. If he wanted to change the way MAPS was structured, then work on doing so with MAPS 4. I can see where that may be something that should be considered but not by violating the public trust by destroying MAPS3. I liked many things Ed did as a councilman and went all in on the boulevard. But lately I have been let down by the willingness to be a divisive force that cannot affect changes of any sort because the rest of the city leadership has been alienated to the point their focus is on the messenger rather than the message.

[Dubya61]

Shadid at least is willing to work on MAPs 3 projects.

You're sure about this?

Yeah, the best feel I get for this is that Dr. Shadid is at least willing to work to get MAPs 3 money to go towards things he thinks are important, but not necessarily those in the minds of the voters.

[Doug Loudenback]

I really don't have the time or inclination to review all of the posts in this thread to this point. My immediate concern is my wife who is in recovery from open heart surgery and will be for several more days. That said, I will offer this:

Regarding Cornett: I am an admirer of Cornett for what he did to escalate Okc's chances to getting an NBA team located in Oklahoma City; he undertook and accomplished that task very admirably and well -- I see this as his greatest accomplishment for the city; I am less of an admirer of his role in the MAPS 3 campaign in which he presented an incomplete, if not intentionally misleading, picture of what OKC would get if MAPS 3 passed, and I do believe that he assisted in stifling legitimate news in the Oklahoman's news coverage during the campaign in concert with David Thompson, former OPUBCO CEO and Chamber president during the MAPS 3 campaign; I am even less impressed with his public presentations which seem to suggest that he be given credit for the overall MAPS successes -- they don't belong to him, but instead belong to his predecessors, and I don't see him shying away from that fact as much as I would like. Good or bad, Cornett had nothing at all to do with the original MAPS or MAPS for Kids. He hit the bell-gong by hitting the NBA carnival hammer throw just right. And he did.

Regarding Shadid: As a public official purist, I really do like this guy who stands unabashedly for openness in government, one who did not like the subterfuge by Cornett and the Council/Thompson during the MAPS 3 campaign; I do not like the manner in which he been treated by most of his fellow council members, including Cornett, before this point in time; it is almost as though some of his council-member peers think that he should be penalized for not towing the same rope that they have been towing, before his election; conversely, I do not like his explicit or implicit suggestions that the modern streetcar element of MAPS 3 might need to be looked at again by another public vote -- I presently see this matter as having been decided by the MAPS 3 vote, whether rightly or wrongly, and that the streetcar element of MAPS 3 should be completed to its successful or unsuccessful end, as the case may be.

That's all for now; I am leaving now to visit my wife at the Oklahoma Heart Hospital. But the ultimate truth, as far as the mayoral campaign is concerned, is that it will take many months of candidate input for me to reach a final decision about how I will cast my vote.

[betts]

Yeah, the best feel I get for this is that Dr. Shadid is at least willing to work to get MAPs 3 money to go towards things he thinks are important, but not necessarily those in the minds of the voters.

Dr. Shadid chose not to vote in the MAPS 3 election. He had his chance to participate in the MAPS 3 discussion, pre-vote, just like the rest of us and did not. He assumed his seat on the City Council after the election.

I agree with Capt. Dave. He has every right, as a citizen and City Councilman, to try to influence any future MAPS votes, and obviously any other future decisions the city makes regarding new funding sources for projects he supports. But, picking and choosing projects in MAPS 3 based on what he thinks is important is paternalistic at best and, IMO, unethical at worst.

[CaptDave]

I really don't have the time or inclination to review all of the posts in this thread to this point. My immediate concern is my wife who is in recovery from open heart surgery and will be for several more days.

You've a far more important task Doug. I hope all goes well.

[bradh]

best wishes for your wife Doug

[betts]

I really don't have the time or inclination to review all of the posts in this thread to this point. My immediate concern is my wife who is in recovery from open heart surgery and will be for several more days.

So sorry to hear that Doug. I wish her well.

[soonerguru]

Agree 100%. The usual cycle of suburban decay is not Mayor Cornett's fault and has nothing to do with MAPS 1, 2, or 3.

Now if one wants to really address sprawl/decay, why not ask why the vast majority of the $700 million bond issue work is going on in the suburban areas? Streets weren't fixed in the inner suburban areas, they were doubled in size along the far extremes further enabling the vicious cycle. Certainly seems like those funds could have been better used. But once again it wasn't Mayor Cornett's "fault"

Shadid is just searching for an issue to resonate, but this one is a canard. I visited Shadid's boulevard forum and he was mocking the city for doing street widening projects in far Northwest OKC. His ward is getting a major street scape project, new sidewalks, etc. so it's goofy for him to suddenly start critiquing the city for only focusing on downtown. Heck, he is having his campaign rally downtown. Is he now against inner city development? I'm sure he has many supporters who would be unenthusiastic to find out he has done an about face on the importance of revitalizing OKC's urban core.

[Steve]

Doug, when you first shared your concerns with me on that all to short visit on your porch a couple weeks ago, I was really hoping all would turn out ok. That is still my hope and prayer. You are in my thoughts, my friend, and if you need any assistance or just a friend to vent to, call me. I'll be texting you shortly to see if you need me tonight. Take care friend.

[Urban Pioneer]

Best wishes to you and your wife Doug.

[soonerguru]

Thinking of you and your wife, Doug.

[Mikemarsh51]

I really don't have the time or inclination to review all of the posts in this thread to this point. My immediate concern is my wife who is in recovery from open heart surgery and will be for several more days. That said, I will offer this:

Regarding Cornett: I am an admirer of Cornett for what he did to escalate Okc's chances to getting an NBA team located in Oklahoma City; he undertook and accomplished that task very admirably and well -- I see this as his greatest accomplishment for the city; I am less of an admirer of his role in the MAPS 3 campaign in which he presented an incomplete, if not intentionally misleading, picture of what OKC would get if MAPS 3 passed, and I do believe that he assisted in stifling legitimate news in the Oklahoman's news coverage during the campaign in concert with David Thompson, former OPUBCO CEO and Chamber president during the MAPS 3 campaign; I am even less impressed with his public presentations which seem to suggest that he be given credit for the overall MAPS successes -- they don't belong to him, but instead belong to his predecessors, and I don't see him shying away from that fact as much as I would like. Good or bad, Cornett had nothing at all to do with the original MAPS or MAPS for Kids. He hit the bell-gong by hitting the NBA carnival hammer throw just right. And he did.

Regarding Shadid: As a public official purist, I really do like this guy who stands unabashedly for openness in government, one who did not like the subterfuge by Cornett and the Council/Thompson during the MAPS 3 campaign; I do not like the manner in which he been treated by most of his fellow council members, including Cornett, before this point in time; it is almost as though some of his council-member peers think that he should be penalized for not towing the same rope that they have been towing, before his election; conversely, I do not like his explicit or implicit suggestions that the modern streetcar element of MAPS 3 might need to be looked at again by another public vote -- I presently see this matter as having been decided by the MAPS 3 vote, whether rightly or wrongly, and that the streetcar element of MAPS 3 should be completed to its successful or unsuccessful end, as the case may be.

That's all for now; I am leaving now to visit my wife at the Oklahoma Heart Hospital. But the ultimate truth, as far as the mayoral campaign is concerned, is that it will take many months of candidate input for me to reach a final decision about how I will cast my vote.

I could not have put my thoughts down any better than how you said that, totally agree! Godspeed your wife and her recovery?