OG&E Tower

[Rover]

Rover what exactly is your problem?

Are we not allowed to post ideas anymore? I must have missed that memo. Get over yourself.

You are right. Only posts that agree are permissible. All others are subject to scolding.

[Bellaboo]

I was thinking...shouldn't it be a good sign that the majority of OKCitians seem to be against the demolishion of the Stage Center at this point? Wouldn't it be more alarming if a tower like the Valliance Bank Tower was announced and people were gung ho and excited about destroying a unique landmark for it? Most of us here on OKCTalk were expecting a huge, game changing, skyline changing announcement. Now that it appears to be turning out differently, even civic boosters here are turning against it. Anybody think this may signal the end of the "development at any cost" attitude, the attitude that gave us Lower Bricktown and Belle Isle and the Pei Plan, that has pervaded this city for so long? Could this be the beginning of an era where OKCitians are finally starting to demand better?

Just don't understand how anyone can think this may NOT be a game changer..... nobody really knows at this point. I've seen this thread make about 4 turns on how people think. This is like a mob.

[drinner-okc]

Centerpoint will continue to exist, only one division or segment of them is involved in forming this new entity. They will own stock in the new to be named soon MLP just as OG+E will. But it's a new Company (or Corporation, however you want to call it) not part of OG+E, Centerpoint or Arklight. Enogex employees are supposed to learn the name (officially), how & why the name was chosen this week. I believe a similar meeting will occur at the same moment in Houston & Shreveport. And (I know bad grammar) no employee is guaranteed a job at the NEW company.

[Bellaboo]

Who Will Seek a Sales Tax to Save Stage Center? | News OK

I can guarantee where this vote would go, if it came into question.

[soonerguru]

Nothing is impossible for those who don't have to pay for it.

Jerky comment.

[Bellaboo]

^^^ Good idea, catch22. I was actually thinking about that possibility. Not sure how feasible it would be though.

The Holy Ghost building in Denver did a similar thing, they built around the existing church.....

[Rover]

Jerky comment.

Not trying to be a jerk. Just saying it is easy to fantasize, but the proposals have to be based on economic realities. If SC is to be saved then there has to be a reasonable alternative. All sorts of plans can be made or proposed but without solid funding it will be fantasy. The cost to preserve SC or the cost to encapsulate it in a building would be extroardinary....technically possible, but not feasible. If it was a serious question/proposal, then the serious answer is yes, it can be done, but at huge expense with no real opportunity for payback based on marketable value produced.

[catch22]

Not trying to be a jerk. Just saying it is easy to fantasize, but the proposals have to be based on economic realities. If SC is to be saved then there has to be reasonable alternatives. All sorts of plans can be made or proposed but without solid funding it will be fantasy. The cost to preserve SC or the cost to encapsulate it in a building would be extroardinary....technically possible, but not feasible. If it was a serious question/proposal, then the serious answer is yes, it can be done, but at huge expense with no real opportunity for payback based on marketable value produced.

Okay Rover, I apologize because I forgot to do a full engineering and cost analysis on my 10 minute Google Sketchup. Obviously I did not do soil or water table tests either. I promise to be more thorough in any future ideas I have. I will also be sure to consult the best of the best air conditioner repairman before I build this tower....

Get over yourself, this a forum to express ideas not an engineering contest. Lord have mercy.

[PhiAlpha]

As for a spec tower (as in market speculation), that would be a real estate development that instead of being built for a client or by the owner (like Devon Tower), this is being built by a developer who will solicit several different tenants. Rainey Williams will be involved in the Enogex-Centerpoint MLP formation in determining whether OKC or Houston will win the HQ, but in the event it goes to Houston, Williams will still build a spec tower to avoid the specter of public rejection for OKC. It's a smart plan for the ED play, but I don't think anybody wants to see the spec tower we'd get if the deal falls through..

Why would Centerpoint HQ want to leave this building?



[/QUOTE]

Centerpoint's HQ will remain there. Their pipeline/midstream division is spinning off and merging with enogex, og&e's pipeline/midstream division to form the new MLP that might locate its HQ here.

[Rover]

Okay Rover, I apologize because I forgot to do a full engineering and cost analysis on my 10 minute Google Sketchup. Obviously I did not do soil or water table tests either. I promise to be more thorough in any future ideas I have. I will also be sure to consult the best of the best air conditioner repairman before I build this tower....

Get over yourself, this a forum to express ideas not an engineering contest. Lord have mercy.

Now who is being snarky?

[Snowman]

I'm no architect or engineer.

Is it possible to build a building around the stage center?

The inside curved area could be an all glass mezzaine retail/lobby area looking into the stage center area.

The NE corner would front the street while the west and southwest is held up by supports and essentially hovering over the stage center.

...

Just an idea...drank too much caffeine tonight

Something like that has been done before with smaller buildings, it is pretty unrealistic to do so here It would be a terrible compromise in that it probably it really screws up the buildings functionality while simultaneously loosing some of it's most valuable space, so much of the interior would be taken up by stage center the mechanical/elevators/service space needs to be shifted to the outside so makes ground retail out of the question. They also need a parking garage, is that on stilts about the other part. After all that Stage Center is probably still not repaired and would no longer be visible, if it was though it would then look even worse visually. Building in a different location or demolishing the building are probably the two ways forward.

[jn1780]

Centerpoint's HQ will remain there. Their pipeline/midstream division is spinning off and merging with enogex, og&e's pipeline/midstream division to form the new MLP that might locate its HQ here.

Yes, I dont think he was saying they were. People just say Enogex-Centerpoint enity because new company doesnt have a name yet. Its pretty likely that this new company will not be in the same buildings of either Centerpoint energy or OGE energy. The two companies would want to keep it separate.

[Doug Loudenback]

Who Will Seek a Sales Tax to Save Stage Center? | News OK

Having already said that, "my present position is not fixed," I must say that the almost 10 minute YouTube video of Johansen included in Steve's blog does give me pause for thought about the matter. It is well worth listening to and thinking about as part of the consideration of Stage Center's prospects. I've embedded the YouTube video below.

[Praedura]

After thinking about the updated speculations on the new tower, I decided to revisit my original mockup.

We now no longer feel confident about a very tall (700 ft) building, only being guaranteed 20 stories. Perhaps it will still turn out to be a 700 footer in the end. But maybe not.

Steve also stated in his last chat that the new building will likely have "a much wider mass". So this leads me to ponder on the prospects of a not as tall, but wider and bulkier tower.

Not having any better image to work with, I grabbed the photo of the Duke Energy Center again, but simply chopped off the top. I'm attempting to scale the thing to about 510-520 feet (slightly taller than Chase Tower).
I then just duplicated the image several times horizonally to achieve the extra width. And then futzed around with it a bit to make it look more three dimensional, as if it actually belonged in the aerial shot.

Here's the result:



Something to think about.

[Bellaboo]

That's pretty slick, but can you actually see through the Devon Tower like that ??

[G.Walker]

I like the fact now we can speculate on the architect and design, as we know we will be getting a new office tower. I like that mock up Praedura, bring on the new office towers. I wish we could find out the architect, that would answer a lot of our questions. On a side note, Chase Tower looks so dark and dull, its due an upgrade, it would be great if they did a new facade, it would work wonders for the skyline.

[OKCTalker]

It appears to be the same height as Chase Tower (515,000 sf), so if the same depth, it would contain around 1.5 million square feet. That won't happen.

[UnFrSaKn]

Devon Energy Center Aerials (July 26 2013) - a set on Flickr

[Anonymous.]

I am not sure what is so difficult to understand. Yes there is a lot of empty spaces a tower could go. This is not about tearing down SC to build a tower, it is about tearing down SC to expose the most prime space in the newly expanded CBD. This is a piece of property that borders the Gardens and eventually will provide further framing of these gardens once the Cox superblock is opened for private development.

There is a weird consensus that some people want to bulldoze SC because "they don't like it". No, we want to bulldoze it because it is occupying critical space in the new era of the CBD. The gain of the land and economic impact of its removal outweighs anything the vacant SC could bring in the immediate future.

There is an on-going and normally supported renaissance in downtown OKC, why throw a wrench in the gears now?

[Snowman]

Do new OKC skyscrapers have to go downtown? A Parisian possibility
Do new OKC skyscrapers have to go downtown? A Parisian possibility - BatesLine

This is some of the reasons I hope we either can get interest enough to either build a new residential tower or convert 1st national or another with a lot of vacancies to residential and continue to develop tall downtown with street interaction of the buildings downtown at ground level. I have a hard time seeing us ever developing a proper mass transit system any other way than building up from the core. Plus building outside the core is more likely to cause the building to be more like some of the towers along NW Expressway, where you are encouraging job sprawl (with that suburban sprawl) and the buildings have such large grounds they loose core reasons you build tall verses a campus style.

Another thing though was stage center was not any better on street interaction than the towers they talk about being built today that are the problem, at this point one of the few details we know is it is intended to have first floor retail, so is almost sure to be more urban than stage center was.

[Teo9969]

Do new OKC skyscrapers have to go downtown? A Parisian possibility
Do new OKC skyscrapers have to go downtown? A Parisian possibility - BatesLine

I barely even skimmed through part of the article, and I'm sure he addresses the following points, but:

1. The answer is of course: No, they don't *have to*. The best case for this is Valliance, Founders, and Union Plaza. I wouldn't mind seeing more sky scrapers line NW Expressway.

2. However: We simply need the money downtown still. OKC's DT is not dense or live enough yet, and towers are the best way to fill the under-utilized space.

3. While I'm not for getting rid of the Stage Center for a bland development (if it indeed turns out to be bland) it is at best architectural heritage. It is mostly wasted space and functionally terrible. With the plentiful amount of surface parking lots or far less interesting buildings that OKC already has, I wish that this option was left off the table until those options were filled, but getting rid of the Stage Center isn't even on the same level as getting rid of something like the Renaissance Hotel were that option to be presented.

[UnFrSaKn]

July 26 2013

[HangryHippo]

I am not sure what is so difficult to understand. Yes there is a lot of empty spaces a tower could go. This is not about tearing down SC to build a tower, it is about tearing down SC to expose the most prime space in the newly expanded CBD. This is a piece of property that borders the Gardens and eventually will provide further framing of these gardens once the Cox superblock is opened for private development.

There is a weird consensus that some people want to bulldoze SC because "they don't like it". No, we want to bulldoze it because it is occupying critical space in the new era of the CBD. The gain of the land and economic impact of its removal outweighs anything the vacant SC could bring in the immediate future.

There is an on-going and normally supported renaissance in downtown OKC, why throw a wrench in the gears now?

+1

[OKCTalker]

Can someone clarify the south boundary of the Stage Center property? Does it include the E-W brick section with trees bordering it on north and south, or does that belong to the OKC Arts Council?

[td25er]

I think OKC needs more towers any we we can get it. It's not that impressive from afar because central Oklahoma is so friggin flat. It looks like a tiny cluster of mostly short-medium sized buildings. Stage Center is kind of neat because it's different, but it's kind of an eye-sore in its current state. I'd prefer to keep it, but come on, more towers=good.