OG&E Tower

[betts]

There was a real plan to turn it into a Children's art museum, which would be perfect. They just couldn't get funding. And as I said, there is so much open land in downtown Oklahoma City that I don't see why the Stage Center site is the only option for a 20 story tower. That is a pretty significant piece of real estate. Are we so desperate for any construction downtown that we allow something as cool as the Stage Center to be destroyed for a tower being built on spec?

[Snowman]

I think the Stage Center would make a very nice museum of modern art. Ever seen the Pompidou Museum in Paris?

Even though the both have an unusual exterior, Stage Center center will be difficult to transition to anything but a theater, even that is prohibitively expensive and apparently it was not very flexible as a theater either.

[bluedogok]

Although MF does need room to expand(they've offered to buy 2 of CHK's buildings near them, which CHK was not willing to sell at this time), I can't see them being a tenant in the new SC tower for 2 reasons: 1)Jeff Records likes his office to be close to his home, and 2)He is a buyer, not a renter.

It could also be done as a "turnkey" project for a specific client, with the "tenant" purchasing the building after a CoO is issued.

[Just the facts]

Did you guys all of a sudden forget that it costs $30 million to fix it?

[Spartan]

Did you guys all of a sudden forget that it costs $30 million to fix it?

Nooooo....... it can probably be done for $5M. It's mostly flood damage.

I am willing to listen if we're talking about replacing this site with an iconic structure. That said, I'm just not willing to talk about tearing the Stage Center down until someone shows me an iconic structure they will build on the site.

It's that simple. We all got caught up in assuming an iconic structure was in the works. I'm not saying I don't think one is in the works, either, but it sounds far from being 100%.

In this case I don't yet think we are ready to entertain tearing the Stage Center down. Like I said, it's that simple. Let's be reasonable here, we should NEVER be gung ho about tearing down an icon, nor we should we prevent something truly magnificent for fear of change. I'm not fighting a preservation battle this time, I'm just saying that both sides need to be reasonable and give a little.

[bluedogok]

Nooooo....... it can probably be done for $5M. It's mostly flood damage.

I think the number is somewhere in between. The 30MM figure was floated out by those wishing to see the building gone knowing that it was such an absurd number to justify their position.

[RadicalModerate]

So won't putting another tower almost right next to the Devon Tower sort of screw up the view (from the Devon)?
Or is that just a misplaced urbane feng shui concern?

[Snowman]

So won't putting another tower almost right next to the Devon Tower sort of screw up the view (from the Devon)?
Or is that just a misplaced urbane feng shui concern?

Unless they like the view of stage center it should not be blocking any key points of interest at the current time. Building on the Preftakes block could block some peoples view of sunset parts of the year depending on how tall, wide and exact position it is

[CaptDave]

Interesting find in the NewsOK.com comments on Steve's downtown demolition story - does this refer to the area south of Stage Center or the Preftakes block?

Matt McDowall · Follow · London, United Kingdom
What about the millions of parking lots downtown? Surely they could be consolidated into a multi-storey structure and towers built in the remaining empty lots.
Reply · Like · Follow Post · 8 hours ago

Steve Lackmeyer · Top Commenter · Business reporter and columnist at The Oklahoman
Matt, in the downtown core those surface parking lots have pretty much disappeared. The only lots left are the ones across from Stage Center that are set to be used as part of another development. I understand your frustration and I'm not taking sides - just showing why we've gotten where we are now.
Reply · Like · Follow Post · 7 hours ago

[Snowman]

With all the talk of parking limited downtown, has the old car dealer site been considered for temporarily used for parking till they construction gets to the point the asphalt needs to go. Of hand I do not remember any cars being parked there in a long time during the day.

[architect5311]

I hope it does'nt turn into one of these type projects. A pretty picture which turns into a nondescript spec office building...

[Just the facts]

Nooooo....... it can probably be done for $5M. It's mostly flood damage.

I am willing to listen if we're talking about replacing this site with an iconic structure. That said, I'm just not willing to talk about tearing the Stage Center down until someone shows me an iconic structure they will build on the site.

It's that simple. We all got caught up in assuming an iconic structure was in the works. I'm not saying I don't think one is in the works, either, but it sounds far from being 100%.

In this case I don't yet think we are ready to entertain tearing the Stage Center down. Like I said, it's that simple. Let's be reasonable here, we should NEVER be gung ho about tearing down an icon, nor we should we prevent something truly magnificent for fear of change. I'm not fighting a preservation battle this time, I'm just saying that both sides need to be reasonable and give a little.

Well for some reason the people who tried to save it said it would take $30 million. A city study in 2003 estimate it would cost just over $17 million to bring it up to modern standards, and that was before the 2010 floods and damage and 10 additional years of neglect.

Saving Johansen’s Stage Center | News | Architectural Record

[Spartan]

Look, high cost or not, modern standards notwithstanding, skyscraper or not, I just don't want Stage Center torn down for this:

I hope it does'nt turn into one of these type projects. A pretty picture which turns into a nondescript spec office building...

I wouldn't mind tearing it down for a 20 story residential tower. But I don't think we need to surround the Myriad Gardens with anymore nondescript office buildings. If it's office, on that site, it needs to match the standard established by Devon Tower or it needs to accommodate some mixed-uses beyond just a first floor retail arcade.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, where's that developer at? We've been waiting & calling on him for quite awhile, but we're still sitting here looking at an empty Stage Center.

To be realistic, I don't think there is one. If I had millions to blow, I would do it. I highly doubt whoever invest in it would ever get their return, or it would take a really long time. What we need is a dev who has heart and can see that this is something we will likely miss down the road.

Someone said in the retail thread that the only reason we want an Ikea or QT or these other stores that really aren't that big of a deal, is they aren't here. So the only reason we want it, is because we don't have it. Once we get it, it won't be that big of deal in year or two. Bass Pro is the same way, when it was first built it was like "ah we're going to Bass Pro AWESOME!!!!" now it's more like "we're going to Bass Pro, meh cool". This is reversed for the Stage Center. Once it's gone and a new tower is built, not many people will likely miss it, but down the road, I think we will regret it as this "awesome" office tower ages and isn't really significant in any way, esp. if we get 3-5 more super-tall buildings(50-80 story). Even if it is 30 years down the road, we will still hate ourselves.

What I'm trying to say is, when this building that will replace the Stage Center is built, it will be cool and impressive for some, but down the road in 20 years when we have other massive buildings built and this thing starts to age, I think we will regret it.

[Plutonic Panda]

Unless somebody can fix up the Stage Center & make it function properly again then I don't care if it's a 20 story tower or an 80 story tower, an unused building shouldn't just be sitting there doing nothing on such a prime spot that has proposals lined up to build something that will actually function with the rest of downtown.

Well, I'm still sticking to my statement, if it were a taller building, I'd be less sympathetic, but now that I really think about it, I still think it could be built somewhere else. Just my opinion though. I'm not attached to the Stage Center and never gave it much thought until now, but I think it will be missed and there isn't much like it anywhere.

[Plutonic Panda]

There was a real plan to turn it into a Children's art museum, which would be perfect. They just couldn't get funding. And as I said, there is so much open land in downtown Oklahoma City that I don't see why the Stage Center site is the only option for a 20 story tower. That is a pretty significant piece of real estate. Are we so desperate for any construction downtown that we allow something as cool as the Stage Center to be destroyed for a tower being built on spec?

Agreed and this is one of the things that bothers me the most now.

[Plutonic Panda]

Nooooo....... it can probably be done for $5M. It's mostly flood damage.

I am willing to listen if we're talking about replacing this site with an iconic structure. That said, I'm just not willing to talk about tearing the Stage Center down until someone shows me an iconic structure they will build on the site.

It's that simple. We all got caught up in assuming an iconic structure was in the works. I'm not saying I don't think one is in the works, either, but it sounds far from being 100%.

In this case I don't yet think we are ready to entertain tearing the Stage Center down. Like I said, it's that simple. Let's be reasonable here, we should NEVER be gung ho about tearing down an icon, nor we should we prevent something truly magnificent for fear of change. I'm not fighting a preservation battle this time, I'm just saying that both sides need to be reasonable and give a little.

Very reasonable and fair approach to this.

[UnFrSaKn]

I heard that one possible reason One North Hudson (Hotel Black) is being emptied is to house the construction workers while they are working on the new tower. Just rumors.

[Praedura]

I heard that one possible reason One North Hudson (Hotel Black) is being emptied is to house the construction workers while they are working on the new tower. Just rumors.

Interesting. Well, there's probably nothing to it, but I really like the idea. Why?

Rainey Williams has already stated that the Arts Festival 2014 (in late April) will not be affected by construction (meaning they won't have started yet), but would not say the same for the festival in 2015. That means the absolute earliest that construction on the tower would begin is early May 2014. If the old Hotel Black is actually being prepped for worker housing, that would imply that this very early, fast track schedule for beginning construction could actually take place.

So, I like that rumor.

[bchris02]

To be realistic, I don't think there is one. If I had millions to blow, I would do it. I highly doubt whoever invest in it would ever get their return, or it would take a really long time. What we need is a dev who has heart and can see that this is something we will likely miss down the road.

Someone said in the retail thread that the only reason we want an Ikea or QT or these other stores that really aren't that big of a deal, is they aren't here. So the only reason we want it, is because we don't have it. Once we get it, it won't be that big of deal in year or two. Bass Pro is the same way, when it was first built it was like "ah we're going to Bass Pro AWESOME!!!!" now it's more like "we're going to Bass Pro, meh cool". This is reversed for the Stage Center. Once it's gone and a new tower is built, not many people will likely miss it, but down the road, I think we will regret it as this "awesome" office tower ages and isn't really significant in any way, esp. if we get 3-5 more super-tall buildings(50-80 story). Even if it is 30 years down the road, we will still hate ourselves.

What I'm trying to say is, when this building that will replace the Stage Center is built, it will be cool and impressive for some, but down the road in 20 years when we have other massive buildings built and this thing starts to age, I think we will regret it.

I think we'll have to wait until a rendering comes out to know for sure. I agree we shouldn't destroy the Stage Center for a mediocre 20 story tower, but that may not be what is planned.

[Plutonic Panda]

I think we'll have to wait until a rendering comes out to know for sure. I agree we shouldn't destroy the Stage Center for a mediocre 20 story tower, but that may not be what is planned.

Hell, I'm sure Charlotte was getting a new 20 story announced once a month or more lol

[Praedura]

A few days back I created a graphic containing my best guesses for basic info on the "mystery tower".

But now that the Mystery Tower has been revealed, I'm posting an updated version of the graphic that contains all the information that we now know about the tower:



Man, I'm sure glad that the mystery is finally over!

[Bellaboo]

Well, I'm still sticking to my statement, if it were a taller building, I'd be less sympathetic, but now that I really think about it, I still think it could be built somewhere else. Just my opinion though. I'm not attached to the Stage Center and never gave it much thought until now, but I think it will be missed and there isn't much like it anywhere.

The problem is, no one on this board knows the height of the new proposed building. It's just all presumptions it'll be around 20 floors. Also, if it's absolute first class ala Devon, that takes a new development a long way. I'd still like seeing the north elemsnt somehow worked into the new tower, but who knows if that's possible.

[Bellaboo]

I heard that one possible reason One North Hudson (Hotel Black) is being emptied is to house the construction workers while they are working on the new tower. Just rumors.

This is what happened when Devon was being built. Not really emptied, but the construction management teams took a few floors.

[catcherinthewry]

I think the Stage Center would make a very nice museum of modern art. Ever seen the Pompidou Museum in Paris?

Yes I have, and it is one of the few buildings in the world that is uglier than Stage Center. Plus, I don't think OKC would be a good place for a modern art museum.