OG&E Tower

[Teo9969]

One thing that I think this almost certainly guarantees: we're at least 2 weeks out from any sort of substantial information. How bad would it look if they came out next Thursday and changed the initial announcement from 20 stories to 40 stories with xyz tenant, etc. etc.

I guess the only interesting thing we "learned" from this announcement is that there may be a spec development aspect to this project to which we were heretofore ignorant. If it is indeed the E/C MLP then that would actually make sense. Build a 40ish story tower only need 25 to 30 floors to start, but over the next 10 years slowly take over the entirety of the building.

I think Pete's summary works, but I also think the reverse could also be true: It sounds like to me there's the possibility that things are still very up in the air with the MLP and that OKC may not end up getting very much at all. It would make more sense to me that the reason we only 20 stories "guaranteed" at the moment is that we don't know exactly what is on it's way to OKC.

Objectively, speaking, I think this is only another example of how little is still known about the future of the MLP operations

[OKCTalker]

Huh?

Provided contrast with OKC. Not bashing, just stating facts.

[OKCTalker]

Many lessons to be learned here, among them these two: 1) Assuming it's Enogex/Centerpoint, they'll build Class A spec space for their own expansion needs so they don't end up pinched like Devon. This building is perfect because the office center of gravity shifted west when Devon announced their building, existing Class A product is in demand by both small and large users and unavailable, the newest Class A is 30 years old, and no existing player was moving to make this happen. Williams' experience with BOK Tower has given him six years of experience owning, managing and leasing Class A/B space in the CBD, and he's got the equity partners to do this and negotiate favorable debt terms (this isn't Devon - debt will be required).

2) "We" must be careful when designing buildings for the arts. Non-profits in general and arts organizations in particular are typically not good owner-occupants of single-purpose, free-standing buildings. Their income streams are irregular, they don't understand capital investments, they gravitate more to the aesthetic rather than the pragmatic. Again - not bashing, just stating a fact. This lesson was taught to me by none other than Jim Tolbert years ago. Learn this lesson.

[Teo9969]

Many lessons ... 2) "We" must be careful when designing buildings for the arts. Non-profits in general and arts organizations in particular are typically not good owner-occupants of single-purpose, free-standing buildings. Their income streams are irregular, they don't understand capital investments, they gravitate more to the aesthetic rather than the pragmatic. Again - not bashing, just stating a fact. This lesson was taught to me by none other than Jim Tolbert years ago. Learn this lesson.

Blah ... I don't know exact figures by any means, but if you moved 10% of the money spent on sports in this city (public and private) to the arts you'd probably increase the arts budget by somewhere between 50% and 400%...if not more.

[Pete]

I'm traveling today and will be gone/busy all weekend so I apologize in advance for not being able to stay on top of this as much as I'd like.

Still trying to get more information about what may be going on behind the scenes but I'm increasingly confident that the anchor will be the HQ for Enogex/Centerpoint, although that obviously is not set in stone as of yet.

[G.Walker]

Wow, this is a disappointment, we still don't know more that what we did 6 months ago, we all knew a tower was going to be built, all this soft announcement did was confirm what we have been saying all along. We still don't know how tall its going to be, what company will occupy it, nor when it will get started, wow, back to waiting for a real announcement, another 90 days.

[hoya]

It's not a disappointment -- now we KNOW.

[Pete]

We do know that Stage Center has been sold to a developer who plans to demolish the existing structures, build a tower of at least 20 floors with a parking garage and that there will be restaurant/retail space on the ground floor. That's significant news.

It also sounds like we will see at least preliminary renderings within 90 days and the anchor tenant will also be revealed.


I believe this is just this is just the first step towards a long, fluid stream of information about several towers, developers, sites and companies.

If this has just been for OG+E plus some element of Enogex, we'd know more but it would have also meant that there wasn't necessarily more development that was imminent. I'm actually excited about this and look forward to quite possibly several large developments, rather than just one.

[ABryant]

Isn't the Braniff Building and the former Sandrige Amenities Building soon to be open class A office space. I know the intent for these buildings was not for this, but I think the idea that no new buildings have been built and are for lease with no exact tenant since Leadership square are slightly disingenuous.

[Just the facts]

The biggest surprise in this whole story is that despite its prime location, large size, and multiple bidders - the site was sold for a mere $4.3 million. There has to be a digit missing between the '$' and the '4'. If this sale price is accurate, anyone hoping that the price for the Ford site would force the convention center onto another lot can forget that idea.

[OKCDrummer77]

What about something like this?

Oh, there you are, Perry.

[Pete]

Isn't the Braniff Building and the former Sandrige Amenities Building soon to be open class A office space. I know the intent for these buildings was not for this, but I think the idea that no new buildings have been built and are for lease with no exact tenant since Leadership square are slightly disingenuous.

Good point.

It also doesn't take into account the remodeling for SandRidge Tower to Class A status, although that hasn't been for lease; the other two buildings you mention are definitely being marketed with the Braniff Building being very close to move-in ready and the Parkside Building coming on-line sometime next year.

[Snowman]

What about something like this?

While more whimsical than a lot of towers, I do not even want to imagine it having any characteristics that have there roots more in 60s or 70s tower design (even though the tower in the picture was built later than that) than in the types of design we have been seeing downtown recently

[Anonymous.]

The biggest surprise in this whole story is that despite its prime location, large size, and multiple bidders - the site was sold for a mere $4.3 million. There has to be a digit missing between the '$' and the '4'. If this sale price is accurate, anyone hoping that the price for the Ford site would force the convention center onto another lot can forget that idea.

This was my first "wow" with this soft announcement. $4.3M for the currently primest land available in DT OKC? Mind blowing.

[LakeEffect]

Good point.

It also doesn't take into account the remodeling for SandRidge Tower to Class A status, although that hasn't been for lease; the other two buildings you mention are definitely being marketed with the Braniff Building being very close to move-in ready and the Parkside Building coming on-line sometime next year.

Who is marketing them, by the way?

[BoulderSooner]

The biggest surprise in this whole story is that despite its prime location, large size, and multiple bidders - the site was sold for a mere $4.3 million. There has to be a digit missing between the '$' and the '4'. If this sale price is accurate, anyone hoping that the price for the Ford site would force the convention center onto another lot can forget that idea.

4.3 mil ..for 3.168 plus demo costs ... which i would guess = at least 500-700 k .. putting it at 5 mil .. for develop-able space ...

CC site is 20 acres ..

using the same price puts it at 30 mil .. give or take .. which would be over acquisition budget ... but still within reach

[Pete]

The sales price (just over $1 an acre) also puts into perspective the fact that Chesapeake has been paying more for this on average for crappy mid-bock industrial properties, as opposed to this property, which is arguably the most valuable in all of OKC.

[OKCTalker]

4.3 mil ..for 3.168 plus demo costs ... which i would guess = at least 500-700 k .. putting it at 5 mil .. for develop-able space ...

CC site is 20 acres ..

using the same price puts it at 30 mil .. give or take .. which would be over acquisition budget ... but still within reach

$5 million / 138,000 sf = $36.28/sf for developable dirt. That's not giving it away in my book.

[hoya]

While more whimsical than a lot of towers, I do not even want to imagine it having any characteristics that have there roots more in 60s or 70s tower design (even though the tower in the picture was built later than that) than in the types of design we have been seeing downtown recently

60s and 70s architecture makes fine filler. You know, the stuff in the background that you look past to see the cool buildings. If we get like 4 new towers downtown I wouldn't mind one of them being in that style.

[metro]

Yeah I can already see the resistance to this ramping up. Something big, ready to break ground needs to be announced soon if only for the purpose of calming those up in arms about the possible loss of the Stage Center.

I don't think the resistance is as big as everyone is making it out to be. Most OKCitians refer to Downtown as Bricktown and don't even know a tower is being built. Most don't care or even aware of the architectural significance of SC. A very small, vocal group with no money will object and be seen as obstructionists and the local media as always will barely cover the protractors. Our city has proven time after time throughout the decades we don't care about demolishing historic structures (Sandridge ala India Temple and KerrMac come to mind as well as Film Exchange). 98-99% of OKCitians are probably intellectually lazy and just don't care but the 1-2% who are informed and active are on this message board. Just an observation, not necessarily my full opinion.

[metro]

The biggest surprise in this whole story is that despite its prime location, large size, and multiple bidders - the site was sold for a mere $4.3 million. There has to be a digit missing between the '$' and the '4'. If this sale price is accurate, anyone hoping that the price for the Ford site would force the convention center onto another lot can forget that idea.

I believe the first national sold to last developer for $1 MILLION if that tells you anything

[lasomeday]

This really sounds like its not og&e. why would they use some other entity to buy the lot and build the tower and then lease office space when they own their own office space. It could be office space for the mlp but it doesn't sound like it is for Og&e.

There are many other small companies that are growing and could use office space in a new tower. The timing of this could suit Tom wards new company. In three years when it's built he could have a hundred or more employees that could use 3 or 4 floors. Devon could lease the space for the mlp until they get a feeling for how big it will be. Another 5 floors there..... Rki in three years could be at 300 employees downtown. That's 6-8 floors. Continental could lease space until they decide to build. That could be 10 floors probably 5. There are many other service companies looking for more space.... Halliburton, etc that could lease space.

Just throwing out ideas here. We still don't know.... And okc really needs a new tower just for future growth for companies that could eventually build their own towers. This is like incubator space for companies to grow and fall in love with okc and want to stay and grow.


Maybe this is a new company moving to okc? We just aren't 100% sure yet.

[Teo9969]

I think at this point it is obviously not OGE. The only reason OGE was the speculated company is because the assumption was that the announcement would reveal the main company and that only OGE could possibly fit the bill...well: we didn't get the tenant...

[G.Walker]

This really sounds like its not og&e. why would they use some other entity to buy the lot and build the tower and then lease office space when they own their own office space. It could be office space for the mlp but it doesn't sound like it is for Og&e.

There are many other small companies that are growing and could use office space in a new tower. The timing of this could suit Tom wards new company. In three years when it's built he could have a hundred or more employees that could use 3 or 4 floors. Devon could lease the space for the mlp until they get a feeling for how big it will be. Another 5 floors there..... Rki in three years could be at 300 employees downtown. That's 6-8 floors. Continental could lease space until they decide to build. That could be 10 floors probably 5. There are many other service companies looking for more space.... Halliburton, etc that could lease space.

Just throwing out ideas here. We still don't know.... And okc really needs a new tower just for future growth for companies that could eventually build their own towers. This is like incubator space for companies to grow and fall in love with okc and want to stay and grow.


Maybe this is a new company moving to okc? We just aren't 100% sure yet.

Like I said earlier, we still don't really know more that what we did 6 months ago. The only educated guess I can give, is that it being such a controversial site, OG&E or the Enogex/Centerpoint MLP did not want to look bad publicly as the company that demolished Stage Center, so they worked out some sort of deal with developer who will buy the site, demolish Stage Center, develop tower, then lease it back to OG&E or new Enogex/Centerpoint MLP who will in turn eventually buy it in the long run. Just so people can't say OG&E was the company that demolished Stage Center, the fingers would be pointed at the developer not the company, keeping OG&E's reputation somewhat clean.

[s00nr1]

Well, I hate to say I was right but......




Just seems right for how this whole thing has unfolded.