OKC Not Alone In Downtown Investments

[G.Walker]

If you really put it into perspective, Oklahoma City only has two major Fortune 500 companies and that is Devon and Chesapeake, which both have expanded tremendously in recent years. In comparison, Houston is a energy sector hot bed home to the largest oil and gas companies in the U.S. Houston has the second highest number of Fortune 500 companies, only behind New York City, and a majority of those companies have some direct or indirect relation to the oil & gas industry.

[HangryHippo]

adaniel, perhaps I should have asked my question differently as it did come off kind of whiny, but when I visit Houston, their energy companies seem to have much more "presence" in Houston than say Chaparral, Gulfport and Mustang have here. Do you disagree? Are OG companies in Houston that much bigger than Chaparral, Gulfport, Mustang? To be honest, I've never heard of Mustang and only occasionally see the first two mentioned in business blurbs in the Oklahoman. Are they small?

[G.Walker]

I am not adaniel, but i can answer your question...yes companies like Mustang, Chaparral, etc... are a lot smaller, maybe couple hundred employees. Big oil companies in Houston like ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips, BP, BHP, have thousands of employees. ExxonMobil is so big in Houston, you could put Devon in ExxonMobil, and no one would even notice, lol, try 10,000 employees on one campus, wow.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christop...uston-complex/

[Teo9969]

I mean, Exxon is only the 2nd largest and most profitable [company] in the entire world...

[Thanks Praedura...that was a pretty bad gaffe]

[Praedura]

I mean, Exxon is only the 2nd largest and most profitable country in the entire world...

I would call it a company myself... but I catch your drift.

[Praedura]

Devon may become one of the big boys too -- eventually, if they keep growing and continue to conduct their business in a sound, prudent manner as they have in the past.

[adaniel]

adaniel, perhaps I should have asked my question differently as it did come off kind of whiny, but when I visit Houston, their energy companies seem to have much more "presence" in Houston than say Chaparral, Gulfport and Mustang have here. Do you disagree? Are OG companies in Houston that much bigger than Chaparral, Gulfport, Mustang? To be honest, I've never heard of Mustang and only occasionally see the first two mentioned in business blurbs in the Oklahoman. Are they small?

Yes, I would say most companies in Houston are as a whole much bigger than what you would see in OKC. If Houston acts as a hub of the energy business similar to what San Jose/Silicon Valley is to IT, then we are at best an Austin; an important but smaller secondary hub of industry. That's okay though, 200 jobs here has the same effect as 1,000 jobs down there. Because the shale boom is largely centered in the US, it is increasingly unnecessary for a lot of companies that work exclusively in these areas to have operations in Houston, which is why OKC, Pittsburgh, Denver, etc. are seeing their OG jobs go up. In this light I do not see why Tulsa cannot hold on to its OG companies.

I'm not sure I understand your point about oil companies having more of a presence there than here. Tit for tat I don't see much of a difference. Everywhere I turn I feel like Devon, CHK, SandRidge, etc. has its name plastered on something. The smaller companies simply don't have the resources to do the same though. They still provide lots of high paying jobs and their activities are certainly felt in this area's economy. Also, understand you are comparing a metro area of 1.3 million to one of 6.1 million. Apples and oranges.

[ou48A]

I mean, Exxon is only the 2nd largest and most profitable [company] in the entire world...

Actually Exxon- Mobil is now the world's largest publically traded company as determined by market cap.


XOM’s market cap dwarfs the market cap of all Oklahoma based oil and gas companies combined.

If XOM spun off its chemical company division it would be the largest chemical company in the free world.

They have a huge Houston work force but the company is headquartered are in the Dallas metro area in Irving.
I have a relative that played an important part in recruiting XOM from New York City to the Dallas area. It was very interesting.
I have been following the company closely since about 1980 when the Exxon CEO came and spoke to a class I was attending at OU.

[Buffalo Bill]

Actually Exxon- Mobil is now the world's largest publically traded company as determined by market cap.

As of a few minutes ago, Apple had XOM beaten by about $23B. Subject to change, though

[ou48A]

As of a few minutes ago, Apple had XOM beaten by about $23B. Subject to change, though

You are right.
XOM price has dropped enough in recent days to make its CAP fall below AAPL

[G.Walker]

I don't understand how Austin can just keep putting out tower after tower after tower. The city is growing so fast, its remarkable. They are rated high on pretty much every list that comes out, always at the top in population growth, its just crazy how this city is developing, they are the only city I know that is seeing astonishing development and growth and they don't even have a pro-franchise....#AmazingAustin:

Amid building boom, first of several new apartment towers... | www.statesman.com

[Teo9969]

I don't understand how Austin can just keep putting out tower after tower after tower. The city is growing so fast, its remarkable. They are rated high on pretty much every list that comes out, always at the top in population growth, its just crazy how this city is developing, they are the only city I know that is seeing astonishing development and growth and they don't even have a pro-franchise....#AmazingAustin:

Amid building boom, first of several new apartment towers... | www.statesman.com

Those players are paid and you know it!!!!!

But seriously...Austin is going to struggle to get a pro franchise because of how close they are to Dallas and San Antonio. They'll get one if they really push for it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're not clamoring for one.

They are unique in this area of the country and will probably end up being the most sustainable city around here in the long run, as they have found just an amazing balance in their economy, developed practical development standards, and wield a lot of power.

[CaptDave]

I don't understand how Austin can just keep putting out tower after tower after tower. The city is growing so fast, its remarkable. They are rated high on pretty much every list that comes out, always at the top in population growth, its just crazy how this city is developing, they are the only city I know that is seeing astonishing development and growth and they don't even have a pro-franchise....#AmazingAustin:

Amid building boom, first of several new apartment towers... | www.statesman.com

Could it be people are actually moving to Austin the city rather than a suburb? It seems most people move to OKC because of a job and usually not the city itself. These people often end up living in Edmond, Mustang, Moore. or Norman and very few live in downtown OKC. We are making progress in this, but Austin itself is the primary draw and employment often secondary. So the demand for more housing exists in Austin proper, and the surrounding suburbs, is inverse to OKC present development pattern. We haven't reached the tipping point of making downtown OKC more attractive than our suburbs to large numbers of incoming residents yet. I think we are seeing the beginning of the trend but we have a ways to go before OKC proper matches the desirabilility of Austin and in turn the demand for housing.

[stlokc]

What amazes me most about that story are the rental rates. Average of $2300 per month? The one mentioned that was in the $3000s and the occupants don't have lawyer/doctor level professions. The target seems to be young-ish people. And we're not talking about NYC. For all it's dynamism, it's still a southwestern/Plains city. Speaks well for OKC possibilities if we can get the mix right.

[Rover]

Could it be people are actually moving to Austin the city rather than a suburb? It seems most people move to OKC because of a job and usually not the city itself. These people often end up living in Edmond, Mustang, Moore. or Norman and very few live in downtown OKC. We are making progress in this, but Austin itself is the primary draw and employment often secondary. So the demand for more housing exists in Austin proper, and the surrounding suburbs, is inverse to OKC present development pattern. We haven't reached the tipping point of making downtown OKC more attractive than our suburbs to large numbers of incoming residents yet. I think we are seeing the beginning of the trend but we have a ways to go before OKC proper matches the desirabilility of Austin and in turn the demand for housing.

You must not be familiar with the huge high tech job growth there. And their suburbs are also growing quickly. With UT being downtown, the state offices being there, and the explosion of high tech, As well as having a vibrant lifestyle, it is no wonder downtown is growing. Would love to see what OKC downtown would be like if you dropped 2 or 3 OUs a few blocks away...that's what UT is.

[CaptDave]

I am not terribly familiar with Austin. I drove through once over nearly twenty years ago and about all I recall is seeing UT and being surprised it was so close to downtown. I know Round Rock has several tech companies but I wasn't sure about the proximity to Austin downtown. Does Dell have as large a presence now? I think OKC is moving in the right direction and one day our downtown could be the same draw Austin is now.

[Teo9969]

UT is pretty much Heritage Hills/Mesta Park...except I think slightly bigger, with at least 30,000 more people living in the area.

According to Google, Round Rock is about the same distance as Norman.

Think about it this way: If Austin manages to keep 30% of the UT students that start school in Austin, that's 15k people/year. (Now they probably don't keep *that* many...but they probably don't do too bad either).

Make no mistake. UT makes a profound difference in that city.

[bluedogok]

Austin had a slow down on residential towers during the downturn, financing was difficult to get so many projects went on hold. It started picking up around the time I moved to Denver in the fall of 2011. Most of the newer, taller towers have been built since I had moved down there in 2003. The Dell campus in Round Rock is on the east side of I-35 around Parmer Lane, they have sold off quite a few buildings as they have downsized the local operations there over the years.

The UT campus had a chance to move in 1909 from the original "40 Acres" to the Brackenridge Tract along the river (now Lady Bird/Town Lake in West Austin) when the Brackenridge family donated 500 acres to the university along with plans for the Pease family to donate an adjacent 500 acres to create a 1,000 acre campus. This campus would have been just to the west of Mopac & 24th Street. The Pease family declined but Colonel Brackenridge went ahead with his portion. Through politics it was decided not to move the campus, many Austin leaders felt that it was "too far out of town" and the campus was never moved.

UT Brackenridge Tract - Erwin History

[G.Walker]

#EmbraceCharlotte

[Mississippi Blues]

^^Charlotte is my favorite boom city even though the unemployment there is quite bad.

[G.Walker]

Seaholm redevelopment ready to break ground at last | www.statesman.com

Glad to see this site finally redeveloped, its a long time in the making, good for downtown Austin, and a downtown Trader Joe's is part of this project, nice.

[bluedogok]

Seaholm redevelopment ready to break ground at last | www.statesman.com

Glad to see this site finally redeveloped, its a long time in the making, good for downtown Austin, and a downtown Trader Joe's is part of this project, nice.

Some former co-workers were trying to get me to follow them over to STG to work on the Seaholm project, sent a resume over and talked to some people there. One of them is heavily involved in the project having been dedicated to it since it started for them. Then we decided we were tired of the 8 months of summer heat in Austin and I got a job here in Denver. If I hadn't of found a job up here (not the first time that I had interviewed in Denver) then I would have probably gone to STG and be on that project now. It is a pretty impressive project.

[Just the facts]

Jacksonville is on a similar roll around downtown. A new 310 unit complex was annouced this morning and it will include a national grocery chain featuring 'natural' foods. It is next door to another residential complex that broke ground a few months ago. Combined they will have over 500 units.

New mixed development next to 220 Riverside in final approval stage | jacksonville.com

[G.Walker]

I really don't understand how Austin can keep pushing out tower after tower, this is borderline ridiculous, wow.

Proposed project: 3 downtown towers, one up to 65 stories | www.mystatesman.com

[bluedogok]

There was a lull in tower construction there after August 2008 until just recently with these new ones starting back up. We had several (smaller) downtown projects just stop at the end of 2008 because of the economy with no hope of starting back up even when I left there in 2011-12. Part of it is driven by the in-migration of 11,000 people monthly on average.