OKC Council rips "embarrasing" state legislature

[Jersey Boss]

Talking points and catch phrases are all it takes to the vote of the sheep out there. Congress has a 14% approve rating, but most will win re-election. The general American public is politically stupid. They vote according to a color chart (red or blue), what someone tells them, or because they can't see through the BS. Nothing we can do about it. It would be interesting though to see what happens if voting was required by law, giving everyone the first Tuesday in November time off as a holiday, but also giving people the chance to select "abstain" on a ballot (still required to submit one). Would we get the same results we do now?

Ah well. For now the mice will continue to follow the piper. Faith, Family and Freedom!

Which begs the question, "Is an uninformed vote better or worse than a non vote?"

[Questor]

The process is not fine. I am sick of the state government telling this city what it can do with alcohol sales, locations, and public festivals. I am sick of this state government telling this city how it should conduct its business with public schools when clearly it can't manage even the smallest of districts in our state. I am sick of this state government telling cities that they don't have the right to decide for themselves about issues regarding public health and safety that are unique to this state's only city of over one million that they could seem to care less about. I am sick of this state constantly upgrading highways in the middle of nowhere while our metropolitan state-designated highways crumble. I am sick of the jury-rigged redistricting that occurs every decade that does nothing but water down the powers of the largest metropolitan areas in this state. I am sick of the two-house system in Oklahoma whose only purpose is to grant powers to small counties that are excessively out of balance with their relative sizes. I am just sick of it all.

Good job OKC Council for speaking out. Let's have a Constitutional Convention and fix this mess once and for all. I am tired of small town Oklahoma dictating the laws of this state. Either they need to back off, or we need to take over that legislative body and give the rest of the state a dose of their own medicine.

Is there a political action committee pushing for a Constitutional Convention? How do I contribute?

Look at this population map. It is insane to let so much of this state push these idiotic laws on us and to constantly prevent OKC from making the progress it needs to make.

[Questor]

So I just read that the re-districting I mentioned is going on right now. My dream layout for both houses would be about 60% of all districts occupying the OKC metro, 30% Tulsa, and one giant district for the entire rest of the state. Is it possible? Discuss.

[windowphobe]

I am sick of the two-house system in Oklahoma whose only purpose is to grant powers to small counties that are excessively out of balance with their relative sizes.

Except for the minor detail that it doesn't do that; each House district, from 1 to 101, has approximately the same population. When you get a chance, take a look at 61, which includes the entirety of the Panhandle plus parts of three other counties.

[boscorama]

Questor, redistricting took place last year. This is done every ten years, based on the latest census results and, yes, some gerrymandering, to be sure.

[bluedogok]

That's ridiculous. We have such poorly drafted laws because we don't have enough lawyers in the legislature. Exploitative conduct comes from all types, being an attorney reflects nothing about character.

Having many lawyers at every level of government does not ensure well written laws, in fact most laws are poorly written even with many lawyers in the legislatures (at the federal level and every state) with tons of unintended consequences and in conflict with other existing laws....of course one of the main reasons for this is the legislators that are lawyers don't actually write the laws, the lobbyists write the laws for their own benefit and feed to them a legislator who is on their side. Most of the bills are not vetted but passed right on through to committee for consideration. I know for a fact that is how things happen in Texas and in DC and I would bet that it happens in Oklahoma as well. The DMCA is a prime example of an industry writing legislation and I would bet that every bill that Kern introduces was written by her husband and the elders in his church.

You are right about people exploiting their position or connections for personal gain. I know of someone who was doing a remodel in Crown Heights and wished to use the high end Pella windows but the design committee required "true divided light" windows of which (at that time) there was only one manufacturer (not Pella). The rep for those in OKC had connection to someone on the CHDC and he used those connections to get his windows as the only approved replacement/new window for use in Crown Heights. I think the only variance from those would have been for the steel windows on the few "modern style" houses in the area. That was about 12 years ago so I am not sure if that is still the requirement there.

[Midtowner]

The real problem is that we no longer have statesmen in the legislature. We have a bunch of guys who all think they're the next Gene Stipe. Trouble is that term limits don't allow legislators to grow and build power and constituencies. We might have thought folks like Gene Stipe were bad. What's worse is that now, the power is held by unelected lobbyists.

Getting rid of term limits and allowing the people to have their say back in who stays in office is what we ought to do. Let politicians build their own power bases which don't depend on lobbyist dollars.

[Bunty]

So I just read that the re-districting I mentioned is going on right now. My dream layout for both houses would be about 60% of all districts occupying the OKC metro, 30% Tulsa, and one giant district for the entire rest of the state. Is it possible? Discuss.

You obviously want Oklahoma City to win on every vote, if it's in its best interest.

[NoOkie]

You obviously want Oklahoma City to win on every vote, if it's in its best interest.

Not to mention forgetting that Tulsa is 3/4ths the size of OKC, not half. I guess they don't count, because they're Tulsa.

[kevinpate]

So I just read that the re-districting I mentioned is going on right now. My dream layout for both houses would be about 60% of all districts occupying the OKC metro, 30% Tulsa, and one giant district for the entire rest of the state. Is it possible? Discuss.

I'll presume, merely to save some time, that the two largest greater metro areas actually comprise 60 and 30 per cent of the populace. Now, as to your one large district covering the, again presumed, 10% remaining Oklahmans, might you be so kind as to compare and contrast the needs wants and preferences of the good folk in these counties: Cimarron, Cherokee, Choctaw, Harmon, McCurtain, Ottawa, Noble, Kay, Latimer. Go ahead, take your time We'll wait.

[Questor]

The point was that in my perfect world, I don't care at all about anything outside of OKC. Yes, I realize that is unrealistic. But I'm frustrated with the rest of the state seemingly always ganging up on us and would like to return the favor for a few decades. Fairness has nothing to do with politics at all.

[adaniel]

The point was that in my perfect world, I don't care at all about anything outside of OKC. Yes, I realize that is unrealistic. But I'm frustrated with the rest of the state seemingly always ganging up on us and would like to return the favor for a few decades. Fairness has nothing to do with politics at all.

Not that I disagree with you, but the most recent crop of crazies at the capitol (Mike Reynolds, Sally Kern, Ralph Shortey, Randy Terrill, Mike Christian) are all from South and West metro area. Which in itself says something about our local politics.

[Bunty]

Not that I disagree with you, but the most recent crop of crazies at the capitol (Mike Reynolds, Sally Kern, Ralph Shortey, Randy Terrill, Mike Christian) are all from South and West metro area. Which in itself says something about our local politics.

Interesting how people didn't mind recently electing by a large margin the state's first gay state senator who's also from the metro and who doesn't seem crazy.

[NoOkie]

To your credit, the State layer of government is needed less and less, which is actually the scary part. We need to start capping legislation in my opinion. Society, at least from a governance standpoint, isn't changing enough that we can keep dozens and dozens of lawmakers busy. Again, in my opinion. We need to push more control down to the local level and push the state more into a sustainable flight pattern. The book of the month is The Wealth of Cities and I submit that states should follow the "Norquist Law" as a starting rule of thumb and focus almost entirely on reducing taxes and debt at the state level.

Of course, I am a fan of cities so my preference probably isn't one you would hear come from someone who lives on a farm. But truthfully, states have been paving far too many rural roads and spending too much time on social issues. Again and lastly -- in my honest opinion.

But those rural roads serve a purpose. Aside from the people that live out there, there is industry out in the sticks. How are service trucks supposed to get to the wind farms and well sites? How are we supposed to get our agricultural goods out of the rural areas? I recognize that with stuff like the well sites they make their own roads for the last few miles. But those roads can be very difficult to move equipment or fluid over due to the weather(I know a few truckers that do well pad delivery) so they aren't practical for more than a few miles. Also, having spent some time going to job sites out in little towns, many of our rural roads aren't in great shape. I don't think they pour any more than the bare minimum into them.

[kevinpate]

The point was that in my perfect world, I don't care at all about anything outside of OKC.

I can actually understand it, even if I disagree with the viability of it. When I was a youth and then a young adult living over in southeastern OK, pretty much anyone and everything 3 miles west of Hwy 69, north of I-40, south of Octavia, and east of the Arkansas River seemed pointless and unnecessary for my quality of life. There were limited exceptions for kinfolk in Carolina and Texas, and a few friends who ended up in Tulsa (even joined them and lived there for a spell in 80.) Local preferences are great, but in time we grow out of them, and that's not all bad.

[RadicalModerate]

I'm all for fixing the (rural) bridges . . .
Back in the day . . . I used t' drive an oil-field type haul truck over wood and steel bridges in which I was way less than confident.

Dang: I probably contributed to the problem!

Ironically, I was working for a "Paving/Former Oil-Refining" company at the time!

The upside is that, at least once, I was almost certain that "This Is It" . . .
(Right before I hit that long, unexpected, wooden bridge over by HInton or Binger in the vicinity of Anadarko as fast as I could, with a load) hoping against hope that at least the tractor/cab would make it to the other side. =)

[Larry OKC]

Not entirely correct, but mostly so. ...

I worked for the company that printed the bills for the House and that is exactly how it works, if the committee doesn't recommend it (either as written or with a Committee Substitute etc), it doesn't leave the committee and is killed. We actually had a bill forwarded to us for printing and the committee recommendation was "Do not pass". We noticed it and called them to see if there was a typo (should have said "Do pass"?) or not. There was no typo and it should have never made it to us. The bill was dead.

A LOT of bills (usually over 1,000) do get filed every year but the vast majority are funding/appropriations. These "shell" bills (where the amount of the appropriation is left blank) are filed in double, triple and sometimes even more times with the ONLY difference being the bill number. Not usually numbered sequentially (101, 102, 103) but often skipping numbers (101, 103, 105 or 101, 121, 141). Often wondered the point of the exact extra bills because if they defeated it one time, why would they suddenly be in favor of it just because the bill number changed? The odd thing about it is even though they have gone to the unconstitutional "logrolling" of or omnibus appropriations bill a few years ago, they continue to file these separate bills. If they eliminated all of the duplication, it would be much more manageable.

The House and Senate both have limitations in the number of bills a member can file (think it is currently 8), some members (like Appropriations Chair) are exempt from that rule and the rules can be suspended. IIRC, the Senate has a similar limit.


Then there is the time management element. I tracked it for a couple of years and they only work 4 months a year (Feb thru May). The typical work week is Monday thru Thursday. They rarely meet before Noon on Monday and adjourn before Noon on Thursday (effectively making it a 3 day work week). Even when they do work late during the "deadline weeks", they are required to adjourn before midnight. The State Supreme Court has also ruled that the Legislature can define what constitutes a "legislative day" (does not have to coincide with the calendar in any way). That is why sometimes when they have to have a "Special Session", it can happen the same calendar day as a regular session day (Reg in the morning, adjourn and then reconvene in the afternoon for the Special Session). Anyway, I got off point a bit there but about a 1/3rd of the time they meet for 20 minutes or less! Rarely are they in session for a full 8 hours. Some legislators claim that it doesn't count the rest of the time when they are meeting with constituents and committee meetings. For those that do meet with the voters, more power to them. But for those that claim the committee time, it largely doesn't exist as the Oklahoman has reported numerous times that 90% of the committees NEVER meet. Sometimes the committee consist of just the chairman and in many cases they just get on the phone and do the "I'll vote for your bill, if you vote for mine" stuff.

I agree completely that the "system is both terrible, and better " but there are areas were it could be greatly improved.

[Larry OKC]

Interesting. I don't follow local politics too closely, but isn't the killing of the personhood bill a good sigh along these lines?

ironically, the Personhood bill was aborted?

[Larry OKC]

I certainly agree that the product of the state legislature is pitiful, no doubt about that. If someone has a link on the percentage of attorneys occupying state legislative office, I'd bet it's less than a quarter of legislature.

Not sure what the current numbers are (each house publishes a membership booklet that shows years of service and occupation: lawyer, teacher, farmer etc) but from an issue of the Oklahoma Bar Journal had it at roughly 20%

People have talked about too many lawyers in the Legislature, although of the 149 members of the 2006 Oklahoma Legislature, only 31 are lawyers.

[NoOkie]

I would never submit that rural roads don't serve a purpose. And especially rural bridges. But, rural roads are usually best kept gravel. Farm trucks destroy asphalt roads and we end up spending far too much in the long run. This is why you are seeing milling come back. They are returning these roads to gravel.

I am all for great bridges and very functional rural roads. But that is different than seeing them all paved with a hard surface.

I also draw a serious distinction between incorporated areas and unincorporated areas, which I think was really the direction your reply was targeting. And I agree, there needs to be a balance. But not to the tune it is. Rural economies don't support our city centers like they once did and I don't believe they should be subsidized as much as they have been. Could be wrong, though. Just seems like it is the cities turn in Oklahoma to give it a go. When you look at sales tax alone, the state and the counties still get the lion's share. I hope that the future sees a reversal of that.

I assume you mean turn the county roads to gravel, but keep the state highways paved? I've been on a few trips "out yonder" that were partial gravel, always hate how they dinged up my car.

I suppose that begs the question: If the cities have the majority in both money and population, why does the rest of the state manage to command the lions share of the sales tax? I certainly don't want the people in the counties to have no governmental support. But if it meant I got bike lanes and trails, I'd make them all drive on old washboard roads.

[BDK]

Did you all see this today? Maybe the state legislature has crossed the Rubicon this session. Certainly it seems like there is a growing divide between business/growth-oriented republicans and social issue-oriented republicans.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-gop-lawma...man-editorials

[NoOkie]

Did you all see this today? Maybe the state legislature has crossed the Rubicon this session. Certainly it seems like there is a growing divide between business/growth-oriented republicans and social issue-oriented republicans.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-gop-lawma...man-editorials

I've been wondering if we're going to see a party split in the GOP sometime in the next 10 years. It really seems like there are two factions that are agreeing less and less.

[Bunty]

Legislators wanting to play doctor to legislate morality should have the good sense to seek the second opinion of a real doctor.