Maps3, Senior Centers and the Downtown Park

[Mikemarsh51]

A friend of mine went to a coffee discussion at Willow Creek. Pete White spoke about Maps3 and the implementation process. Pete White was upset because it didn't appear that things were going to turn out the way they were sold to the public. Apparently the Central park is going to look like a golf course with no holes. Because of duplication of amenities involving the Myriad Gardens, the park will have little to none. He also had little to no knowledge of if or when the Senior Centres would be built.

I am not complaining. Only looking for information, does anybody know about these projects?

[Pete]

There is still $130 million budgeted for the new Central Park. I'm sure they haven't decided the exact plan but it was always meant to be an open space with nice plantings but not heavily programmed like the Myriad Gardens. More playfields, ponds, etc.

As far as the senior centers, they just completed their final study. You can see it here:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/s...inalreport.PDF

There is more about the senior centers in this thread:

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=senior

[Snowman]

A friend of mine went to a coffee discussion at Willow Creek. Pete White spoke about Maps3 and the implementation process. He was upset because it didn't appear that things were going to turn out the way they were sold to the public. Apparently the Central park is going to look like a golf course with no holes. Because of duplication of amenities involving the Myriad Gardens, the park will have little to none. He also had little to no knowledge of if or when the Senior Centres would be built.

The Oklahoma River, State Fair and Trails improvements were the only ones that had a detailed Master Plan at the time of the election. Their were ideas in various forms of development for the others but not yet concrete. Most of the others were a hypothetical concept based off preliminary studies for what city leaders believe needs are. Given how early in the development phase they were it was likely that at least parts would not look like what was in the conceptual renderings for the convention center & park. The senior centers were pretty vague as what they would be at all. The transit was vague but would confirm a minimum distance, it would be a real street car this time and a hub was included.

[krisb]

They are still working on a conceptual plan for the central park. One idea is that the park is built in three phases, with the amenities being added later. A large open lawn surrounded by trees is not a horrible idea...very similar to the National Mall in Washington, DC.

[MDot]

They are still working on a conceptual plan for the central park. One idea is that the park is built in three phases, with the amenities being added later. A large open lawn surrounded by trees is not a horrible idea...very similar to the National Mall in Washington, DC.

That's the most common conception I've heard regarding the central park. I've also imagined it looking similar to the way the OP described it, but that's just the idea I've developed about it based on what city leaders have described it as.

[Doug Loudenback]

A friend of mine went to a coffee discussion at Willow Creek. Pete White spoke about Maps3 and the implementation process. Pete White was upset because it didn't appear that things were going to turn out the way they were sold to the public. Apparently the Central park is going to look like a golf course with no holes. Because of duplication of amenities involving the Myriad Gardens, the park will have little to none. He also had little to no knowledge of if or when the Senior Centres would be built.

I am not complaining. Only looking for information, does anybody know about these projects?

I consider Pete a friend of mine, but, just the same, if Pete did say the emphasized part, above, he should be the last one to talk since Pete was, I think, the 1st council member to opine that perhaps Maps 3 projects might need to be different than was advertised ... the possibility of derailing the downtown streetcar element of Maps 3 (pun intended) in favor of rubber tire buses ... even if he kinda sorta backtracked away from his Dec 2010-Jan 2011 remarks a bit later. See http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2011/01...g-earnest.html ... and the same was contemporaneously discussed here at OkcTalk as well.

[betts]

I believe I read that the city is looking for a partner for the first senior center, and that planning for it has commenced. According to the timeline, the four will be built over the duration of the MAPS 3 timeline, with the first one scheduled as one of the first MAPS 3 projects. If Pete is upset that all four won't be built right away, perhaps that was his concern.

As far as the Central Park goes, I'm hoping it does look like a golf course without holes, so I'll be thrilled if he is correct. I feel claustrophic in the Myriad Gardens: there's too little space for each concept for me. I want a big Central Park with lots of green grass and trees. Perhaps we all have different concepts of what the park should be, which means some of us will be happy and some unhappy when it's completed. If Pete wants another Myriad Gardens, then perhaps he again has reason to be upset, but I hope for something different.

[Doug Loudenback]

It is good to remember, at this point, that what Pete may have said is second hand hearsay at this point. MikeMarsh51 was not at the meeting at Willow Creek so he does not really know what Pete said. MikeMarsh51 described what some other (unidentified) person had told him what Pete White had said.

That is not a good basis for reporting on what Pete actually did say at the Willow Creek Meeting.

[Snowman]

He has stated that he will make sure the voters get what was passed since but in his ward it did not pass, so he probably has the most leeway to be not be happy about individual items with his constants.

[Mikemarsh51]

I'm sorry, I should have said unnamed union official!!!!

[Doug Loudenback]

So, with a merging of MikeMarsh51 and Snowmans' posts, exactly what is it that Pete White said? More particularly, did he actually say that he was upset because it didn't appear that things were going to turn out the way they were sold to the public?

When attributing comments to others, including Pete White, it's important to be accurate and not sloppy in the attribution.

So ... what did Pete actually say?

[Snowman]

I was not at that event so I can not help on what he said their, what I was referencing something he said at a council meeting probably two to four months ago.

[Larry OKC]

There is still $130 million budgeted for the new Central Park. I'm sure they haven't decided the exact plan but it was always meant to be an open space with nice plantings but not heavily programmed like the Myriad Gardens. More playfields, ponds, etc. ...

It depends on which part of the "Central Park" we are talking about. The northern park was pitched to the public/voters as being heavily programmed...much like the Myriad Gardens but on a larger scale. There was talk about the duplication during the Chamber's pay-to-attend, Breaking Through luncheons where the head of the design firm for the Park talked about it. That said, the southern park of the Park (on the other side of I-40/pedestrian/Skydance Bridge) to be built later was the more open concept with athletic fields etc. The narrower park in the middle or "Promenade" one was to be a transitional mix of the N/S IIRC.

[Snowman]

It depends on which part of the "Central Park" we are talking about. The northern park was pitched to the public/voters as being heavily programmed...much like the Myriad Gardens but on a larger scale. There was talk about the duplication during the Chamber's pay-to-attend, Breaking Through luncheons where the head of the design firm for the Park talked about it. That said, the southern park of the Park (on the other side of I-40/pedestrian/Skydance Bridge) to be built later was the more open concept with athletic fields etc. The narrower park in the middle or "Promenade" one was to be a transitional mix of the N/S IIRC.

I think even before the Myriad Gardens possible programming duplication was discuses, elements of the conceptual rendering in the vote for the north park were already being scaled back or dropped due to more information coming in on build costs, maintenance issues and/or operational feasibility.

[Larry OKC]

Snowman: A couple of things that I recall being dropped pre-vote were some building structures (the Event Center that was to be near the Union Station) and the Underground parking (cost prohibitive). Are you aware of others? There were some other things that the Core 2 Shore report recommended the Park have that were dropped by the time MAPS 3 was formalized.

For reference here is what the 2008 Core to Shore report listed (which goes back to what Pete was saying but much had changed by the time MAPS 3 was unveiled. About the only things that remained the same were the Park boundaries (the renderings/layout look NOTHING alike), incorporating the highly programmed elements like the Houston park that the same designers worked on

Central Park should include
• Structures and spaces for community events such as the Oklahoma City Festival of the Arts
• A distinctive children's play area
• A small pond for changing seasonal uses
• Shaded open areas with attractive landscape for casual activity
• A "Great Lawn" for large events, concerts, and unstructured use
• Public art
• An events center
• A formal garden
• Underground parking

[Snowman]

I do not remember what was dropped when, but I remember most of those items being included at some phase.

[rcjunkie]

I do not remember what was dropped when, but I remember most of those items being included at some phase.

Discussed--yes
Included----no

There are no definate renderings or drawings, and never has been. The architect is in the planning/drawing process at this very moment.

[Snowman]

Discussed--yes
Included----no

There are no definate renderings or drawings, and never has been. The architect is in the planning/drawing process at this very moment.

If you had read my earlier posts I referee to them as concept renderings; also that the park was early in the design phase and the River, Fair Grounds and Trails were the furthest along on their plans at the time of the vote of any of the projects. The renderings I referee to do existed, were used in MAPS3 promotional material and I believe their were videos from 3D modeling software as well, I was not implying they were definite.

One of the reasons I clearly remember the renderings for the park and convention center at the time of the vote was I did not like the style for either and hoped that as time went on their would be changes. The convention center they proposed had enough extraneous art details and poor color choices I had no expectation it would ever happen that way. The park was harder to tell it they could build it that way on budget.

[metro]

A friend of mine went to a coffee discussion at Willow Creek. Pete White spoke about Maps3 and the implementation process. Pete White was upset because it didn't appear that things were going to turn out the way they were sold to the public. Apparently the Central park is going to look like a golf course with no holes. Because of duplication of amenities involving the Myriad Gardens, the park will have little to none. He also had little to no knowledge of if or when the Senior Centres would be built.

I am not complaining. Only looking for information, does anybody know about these projects?

We get your still upset about the election. Knowing that you were so anti-MAPS, I'm find it ironic you wanting more details for any other reason than to continue a diatribe. Won't you stay true when these are built and boycott them?

[Mikemarsh51]

Hey Metro, I did not vote for Maps3, true enough! But I'm paying my share of it. I keep my money in this city as much as possible. That is one reason I never moved out of the city. This thread was started because a council member was crying about the fact that things were not going to pan out as advertised. If nobody want to believe he said those things, it won't change that he did. As a concerned! voting citizen, I think it is everyone's duty to stay informed. Just passing around some info. Not voting for it doesn't mean I cant enjoy it.

[jungmuny]

Someone on here said that Google Earth updated their central OKC images so was looking around the proposed park and substation



They are debating about whether to move the substation with OGE and whether to pay relocation costs.
the article is here
http://newsok.com/options-for-oklaho...rticle/3623856
I have seen that substation and it is really tall and ugly. Not to mention, as you can see from the images, it is directly across from our grand new park! If you would rather have a park you can be proud of, call or email
city council
and tell them your opinion so we can get this thing built the right way.

[ljbab728]

Some progress for the senior centers and a few other projects.

http://newsok.com/maps-3-projects-mo...rticle/3659998

[Larry OKC]

If you consider progress to be cut backs....

[Richard at Remax]

I know it won't happen but Ill take an awesome golf course as part of the park, maybe along the river

[metro]

It is good to remember, at this point, that what Pete may have said is second hand hearsay at this point. MikeMarsh51 was not at the meeting at Willow Creek so he does not really know what Pete said. MikeMarsh51 described what some other (unidentified) person had told him what Pete White had said.

That is not a good basis for reporting on what Pete actually did say at the Willow Creek Meeting.

MikeMarsh51 is also a known hardcore union supporter that was very verbally harsh and inaccurate about MAPS3. Understandably he is frustrated fire and police don't have more funding, but MAPS3 wasn't appropriate as a permanent funding source, nor did the unions approach the argument well.