OKC's Image Issue

[CaptDave]

One thing I always tell my out of state friends and visitors is there is plenty to do in and around OKC - and Oklahoma. You just have to look for it - nothing is as obvious like Disney Land / World or Pike's Peak. What really differentiates us here is the cost of living is so low that IF I cannot find it here, I can still afford to go to wherever "it" is.

[OKCisOK4me]

I just wanted to chime in here and shoot down any ridiculous ideas that our city's image has anything to do with the lack of an "African-American" scene or "Urban" radio. The whole "Urban" radio is simply the entertainment option for thugs. Listen to the lyrics. Much of it is racist, sexist, violent, and is definitely better suited for DC than Oklahoma City. I'm always concerned when I see young people, of whatever color, being lured in by these thugs who claim to be "musicians." The thump-thump-thump bass of "urban" radio (that has to be played at full volume) is one of the single most irritating things to deal with - especially at 2:30 in the morning. If wanting to keep that whole gangsta crowd out of Oklahoma City hurts our image - bring it on. Don't Detroit my Oklahoma City.

Wow, nice POV. Personally, I'm 34, White, and an average American citizen. I don't go around packing a pistol in the back of my pants and slapping women around calling them names. It's not always about the lyrics and trying to imitate them. It's just unfortunate that a lot of kids try to.

Also, I listen to techno...that doesn't make me a homosexual.

[Roadhawg]

Also, I listen to techno...that doesn't make me a homosexual.

Yet.... just kidding lol

[MikeOKC]

Wow, nice POV. Personally, I'm 34, White, and an average American citizen. I don't go around packing a pistol in the back of my pants and slapping women around calling them names. It's not always about the lyrics and trying to imitate them. It's just unfortunate that a lot of kids try to.

Also, I listen to techno...that doesn't make me a homosexual.

It's actually a POV that a lot of people hold but just won't talk about. I think our country is on the way to ruin thanks to "diversity." So as to not completely derail the topic, my point is that the lack of black this and that has NOTHING to do with our image. The less bangers ruining our city the better. "Urban" music hangouts are a magnet for bangers. Not all black folks are bangers either - we've got some great AA posters right here at OKCTalk. Something can be pretty all-encompassing without it being 100%.

[OKCisOK4me]

The only time I bump in my car is on the highway or when I see people like you cause I like that reaction...ya know, "that dude is white and he's shaking my car". Every city has bangers. Do research and find me one American city to your living standards that doesn't have one banger, please.

Heck, I lived in Chillicothe, MO, (pop. 8,000 or so) and there were still thug bangers there. You will never escape it.

[MikeOKC]

The only time I bump in my car is on the highway or when I see people like you cause I like that reaction...ya know, "that dude is white and he's shaking my car". Every city has bangers. Do research and find me one American city to your living standards that doesn't have one banger, please.

Heck, I lived in Chillicothe, MO, (pop. 8,000 or so) and there were still thug bangers there. You will never escape it.

That was really my point.

Just a post or two above, you said you can listen to that crap and not be influenced. I would argue that you wanting to "bump in the car" - just to get a reaction - is evidence to the contrary. (See below.)

The only time I bump in my car is on the highway or when I see people like you cause I like that reaction...ya know, "that dude is white and he's shaking my car".

You can see people like me?

[OKCisOK4me]

When you see "people like me"....can you read minds?

No, but it's pretty easy to spot the old White guy that's looking around with the disgruntled look on his face trying to find where that noise is coming from.

Honestly though, I turn it down too when sitting at an intersection. Only really when I'm moving & definitely not within a 2 mile radius of where I live. I don't need anyone breaking into my car.

[Bunty]

Here are some interesting facts about medical marijuana:
-Current opinion polls show 70% of Americans are in favor of it, this is a rapid increase. Just ten years ago, less than half of people polled were in favor of it, if memory serves.
-This doesn't mean that 70% of voters are in favor of it. The average voter is much older than the average person capable of voting. This is because old people vote at much higher rates.

My personal view is that medical marijuana will become law in Oklahoma when the baby boomers start thinning out and Generation X ers are the new old people. This would be about year 2030.

It could come about sooner than 2030, especially if Colorado votes to legalize marijuana in November and if Arkansas votes to legalize medical marijuana in Nov. Arkansas has until July 6th to gather enough signatures to vote on the issue. To see how far Oklahoma is behind the rest of the nation in approval for medical marijuana, a creditable poll needs to be taken. However, I think the marijuana issue in Oklahoma is far from popular. Intense apathy rules the issue. Many Oklahoma politicians don't want anything to do with legalizing marijuana, because they think it's a gateway drug, but the gateway theory has been proven to be of little significance.

[LandRunOkie]

I personally don't think fully legal marijuana will pass in any state any time soon. CA was the pioneer of medical marijuana and their full legalization ballot failed November 2010, getting about 47% of votes. But even if it did pass, it would be Obama's decision about whether/how to enforce federal law, not a state's rights issue (assuming he gets reelected). If he doesn't get reelected, whatever passes in CO would be rendered virtually meaningless. It seems like Obama is going after the swing voters and would ease enforcement in valuable states like CO and CA if he were reelected.

[BoulderSooner]

I personally don't think fully legal marijuana will pass in any state any time soon. CA was the pioneer of medical marijuana and their full legalization ballot failed November 2010, getting about 47% of votes. But even if it did pass, it would be Obama's decision about whether/how to enforce federal law, not a state's rights issue (assuming he gets reelected). If he doesn't get reelected, whatever passes in CO would be rendered virtually meaningless. It seems like Obama is going after the swing voters and would ease enforcement in valuable states like CO and CA if he were reelected.

it is the same with med marijuana ... it is not legal from a justice dept point of view

[OKCTalker]

I'm happy not to have uncontrolled, legalized marijuana here. Or meth. Or coke. Or heroin. We don't need any more impaired or addicted people than we already have, or addicts. Too many people are having a hard enough functioning while sober - let's not hamstring them any further by legitimizing street drugs, or risking a "life sentence" of addiction.

[Jim Kyle]

I'm happy not to have uncontrolled, legalized marijuana here. Or meth. Or coke. Or heroin. We don't need any more impaired or addicted people than we already have, or addicts. Too many people are having a hard enough functioning while sober - let's not hamstring them any further by legitimizing street drugs, or risking a "life sentence" of addiction.

If the current criminalization were any more successful than were our 52 years of being a "totally dry" state, I might agree with you. However that does not seem to be the case, and the "zero tolerance" approach by the feds in particular is actually damaging to some of us -- non-addicts who have been advised by their doctors that some relief from pain is possible.

As for the "life sentence of addiction" it would be mercifully short if all controls were removed from the really bad stuff and incurable addicts were allowed to OD at will. An added bonus would be that the drug dealers would follow the bootleggers into the dustbin of history, once their product was made legal and freely available at competitive prices.

I have no delusions that such will ever happen in our culture, but I can still dream of a rational universe in which we might live! And I long ago learned to conquer my ties to that much more addicting substance: tobacco. Addiction can be overcome, if one is sufficiently determined to do so... Meanwhile, we ought to try the Edmondson-Cannon approach and enforce existing law to the fullest, against all who break it. That would test our determination at the cultural level.

[Larry OKC]

Why? Is it because it's the LOW income religious conservatives who changed their party registration to Democrat so they could vote for Randall Terry? Or do political experts believe those were real Democrat votes?

Where are the progressives in Oklahoma, other than in OKC where Councilman Shadid and new State Sen. McAffrey live?

Very few folks changed their registration to Democratic, so apparently those that voted for Randall Terry were "real Democrat" voters

Oklahoman (3/4/12) sorry, don't have the link
Political party affiliation changes since Dec. 1

More than 5,000 Democrat and independent voters have swapped their registration to the Republican Party since Dec. 1. The deadline to change party affiliation was Feb. 10 and the application had to be postmarked by that date. Oklahoma has a closed primary, so voters cannot vote in any race other than for their registered party.

Prior >>> Current No. of voters

Ind >>> Dem 340
Rep >>> Dem 405

Dem >>> Ind 452
Rep >>> Ind 341

Dem >>> Rep 3,947
Ind >>> Rep 1,152

Source: State Election Board

The chart implied that the registration changes may be due to the closed primary system and most are changing just so they can vote in the opposing parties primary, possibly to get what they perceive as the weakest candidate selected. And then they will move their registration back for the general election. Of course, for the general, voter registration doesn't matter. While it is certainly possible that this is happening, I would suspect most of these are "permanent" changes as, lets face it, voter apathy is rampant and it is hard enough to get folks out to vote at all, much less take the extra steps of constantly changing one's registration. Sure there are probably a handful of hardcore zealots out there in all 3 camps….

[Jim Kyle]

When I turned 21 and first registered to vote, just about ALL races were decided by the Democrats' primary. Many times, no Republican candidate even filed. In those days it was a no-brainer; one had to register as Democrat for the vote to have any meaning.

This past summer, I finally realized that in many cases (such as national offices) the situation had reversed, and the Republican primary was the place where my vote could be most effective.

I'm glad to see that 3,945 other folk agreed with me and my wife! Now if only the state legislators would quit trying to play "payback time" and act like adults, I'd be even happier...

[LowRyter]

I just wanted to get people's thought on why OKC and Oklahoma for that matter has such a negatvie image nationally. This issue has been discussed on many threads on this site.

Watching the election coverage on Tuesday I heard one of the correspodents on NBC act as though Oklahoma was all low income religous conservatives. Also I keep hearing people say "There's nothing to do in Oklahoma." One of the correspodents on NBA TV covering the Dwight Howard trade made the comment "Better hope Dwight loves the rodeo, because there’s nothing else to do in OKC."

I just don't know what the other cities have that OKC doesn't. We have casinos, we have clubs, we have great restaurants, we have great bars, etc.

I'm not mad about the issue, just curious as to why and what OKC do to change the thinking. I think we are doing a great job now of changing the thinking. But what more can we do?

unfortunately, it's pretty accurate. How do you thnk it will be when we have all those gun owners openly carrying side arms?

[Bunty]

I'm happy not to have uncontrolled, legalized marijuana here. Or meth. Or coke. Or heroin. We don't need any more impaired or addicted people than we already have, or addicts. Too many people are having a hard enough functioning while sober - let's not hamstring them any further by legitimizing street drugs, or risking a "life sentence" of addiction.

Most people who want marijuana legalized want it controlled like alcohol and tobacco.

It's amazing how people feel so much safer with what we got now, an illegal, uncontrolled, underground market of marijuana with some kids finding it's easier to get a hold of a joint than alcohol. Little surprise, if that's true, since narcs on the front page of the Oklahoman have admitted before they only seize around 10% of the underground drug market. Oh, well, maybe it would be too frightening of a sight if marijuana was made legal and convenience stores started plastering their windows with huge photos of the marijuana leaf to direct a sale on joints. For now, it seems safer to have sales of it out of sight and out of mind.

[Larry OKC]

Jim Kyle: I have heard that before and I think it was still true when I moved back home in the mid '80s but I have always been a registered Republican (it was a flip of the coin at the time) and didn't really see a need to change registration. While my historical voting ratio would fall on the Republican side, I have voted for several Democrats. Currently I am fed up with both parties and have considered changing to Independant. But with our closed primary system, that would leave me out of being able to vote in those races.

[Jim Kyle]

Sounds like my own story, Larry. I've always been Independent at heart, and have never participated in party politics. A pox on both their houses might well be my motto -- and these days I feel more akin to the Libertarians than to either established party. However, our state's voting system being what it is, I have to register as one of the two major parties to have any say in things!

[ThomPaine]

Most people who want marijuana legalized want it controlled like alcohol and tobacco.

It's amazing how people feel so much safer with what we got now, an illegal, uncontrolled, underground market of marijuana with some kids finding it's easier to get a hold of a joint than alcohol. Little surprise, if that's true, since narcs on the front page of the Oklahoman have admitted before they only seize around 10% of the underground drug market. Oh, well, maybe it would be too frightening of a sight if marijuana was made legal and convenience stores started plastering their windows with huge photos of the marijuana leaf to direct a sale on joints. For now, it seems safer to have sales of it out of sight and out of mind.

Bunty - Do you think the underground drug market would go away if marijuana was legalized, taxed and sold in stores? Don't you think other marijuana would continue to be sold, and just marketed differently: "This stuff is way stronger (or cheaper) than that crap you can buy in the store!"? Teenagers, who I assume would still be prohibited from buying/legally smoking would still buy and smoke, and probably at higher levels, as the stuff would be more available.

Anyone who smokes now, and calls it a victimless crime has evidently failed to look south of the border. How anyone can partake with a clear conscious is beyond me. And the "I only smoke what I grow" argument is silly and pointless as there are still tons of the stuff coming across the border.

A more shocking, and possibly effective approach might be to actually prosecute and convict the middle-class white kids who get caught at the same rate as some of the others who get caught and spend time in jail/prison.

[RadicalModerate]

I find it difficult to believe that anyone thinks Oklahoma City has an image problem.

On they on dope 'r whut?

[Bunty]

Bunty - Do you think the underground drug market would go away if marijuana was legalized, taxed and sold in stores? Don't you think other marijuana would continue to be sold, and just marketed differently: "This stuff is way stronger (or cheaper) than that crap you can buy in the store!"? Teenagers, who I assume would still be prohibited from buying/legally smoking would still buy and smoke, and probably at higher levels, as the stuff would be more available.

Anyone who smokes now, and calls it a victimless crime has evidently failed to look south of the border. How anyone can partake with a clear conscious is beyond me. And the "I only smoke what I grow" argument is silly and pointless as there are still tons of the stuff coming across the border.

A more shocking, and possibly effective approach might be to actually prosecute and convict the middle-class white kids who get caught at the same rate as some of the others who get caught and spend time in jail/prison.

I'm all for legalizing marijuana like alcohol. Doing so would take the underground market for it away from criminals and cartels. People would not have to engage in pushers enticing them to try out something worse, like meth. I don't hear of pushers trying to make money by selling something legal, such as alcohol and cigarettes to kids or anyone else. With alcohol so widely available, what accounts for underage kids saying marijuana is easier to get a hold of than alcohol? Or do you think that is only a ridiculous myth and far from true?

Trying to put more people in overcrowded prisons over marijuana convictions would lead further in wondering where do you house them without crowding out murderers, rapists and child molesters.

An Oklahoma lawyer and former judge has suggested what can be done to do away with the insane laws against marijuana in Oklahoma. Raid frat houses at OSU and OU. Parents would be outraged over the charges and possible severe punishments while demanding their legislators do something about it. Stepping on the toes of rich people can get results.

Marijuana is without a doubt less harmful to health than alcohol and cigarettes. If the result of legalizing marijuana means less partaking of alcohol and cigarettes, then good. Tobacco farmers could turn to marijuana or hemp if made legal. That would be very good, too. Banning marijuana has gone on as a failed experiment upon society more than long enough.

[Jim Kyle]

One additional point you didn't mention: once made legal and taxed, as are alcohol and tobacco, the full weight of law enforcement descends on anyone who attempts to create an untaxed underground market. You don't see much moonshine being sold in these parts, nor bootleg cigarettes. Even in the days when our area was "dry" the bootleggers were careful to keep their FEDERAL taxes paid...

If anyone does try the strict enforcement, though, I hope they will also employ the "total confiscation" laws to the fullest. Taking over the frat houses and students' automobiles would be guaranteed to get these laws off the books also!

[Kokopelli]

Just for grins and giggles lets say that 6.25% of Oklahomans are currently spending a hundred dollars a month for marijuana. Lets say that it is taxed at a rate of 20% the state would now be collecting 45 million annually or about 3.75 million monthly. Additionally the cost to regulate the industry would probably be lower than the current cost of enforcement.

[okcpulse]

Guys, this is about OKC's image. We are off topic discussing politics and laws outside the scope of state powers.

[OKCRT]

How much does it cost the tax payer when the police take someone to jail then court for a joint or a bag of weed?
Just asking because I have no idea what the answer is but I know it has to be quite a bit from start to finish. I imagine that the Lawyers/Bail bondsmen would be against passing maryjane.

But if you want to change OKCs image then get that on the ballot. Put the dealers out of business and save the tax payer millions of dollars.