OKC's Image Issue

[knightrider]

I just wanted to get people's thought on why OKC and Oklahoma for that matter has such a negatvie image nationally. This issue has been discussed on many threads on this site.

Watching the election coverage on Tuesday I heard one of the correspodents on NBC act as though Oklahoma was all low income religous conservatives. Also I keep hearing people say "There's nothing to do in Oklahoma." One of the correspodents on NBA TV covering the Dwight Howard trade made the comment "Better hope Dwight loves the rodeo, because there’s nothing else to do in OKC."

I just don't know what the other cities have that OKC doesn't. We have casinos, we have clubs, we have great restaurants, we have great bars, etc.

I'm not mad about the issue, just curious as to why and what OKC do to change the thinking. I think we are doing a great job now of changing the thinking. But what more can we do?

[mcca7596]

It's all about the quality of the amenities, not just having them.

I'm telling you too, until one truly lives several other places (outside of Texas), you can't realize how less visible the evangelical Christians really are in other places. Unfortunately, progressives in Oklahoma, be it religious, political, or cultural, are just too much of a minority to shed the image yet.

Also, it's the HIGH income religious conservatives that hold the state back... organized religion is just the largest social control ever devised.

[Pete]

Much of the image is just perception and I think a lot of that is starting to change.

But there are way too many objective measures that reflect very badly on the whole state and thus OKC. We are near the bottom in almost every health measure such as obesity and smoking rates, and a bunch of other areas like education spending and teenage pregnancy.

Also, there seems to be a steady stream of state legislation (both implemented and proposed) that sets us apart, and not in a good way.


OKC is very much linked to the image of Oklahoma and even though we've come a long way, in many ways the state is still among the least progressive.

[BoulderSooner]

It's all about the quality of the amenities, not just having them.

I'm telling you too, until one truly lives several other places (outside of Texas), you can't realize how less visible the evangelical Christians really are in other places. Unfortunately, progressives in Oklahoma, be it religious, political, or cultural, are just too much of a minority to shed the image yet.

Also, it's the HIGH income religious conservatives that hold the state back... organized religion is just the largest social control ever devised.

could not disagree more with this post

[okcpulse]

Oklahoma's image problem has been and will continue to ride on a double-edged sword. It is a subject I have been impassioned about for years, because how people see Oklahoma - inside and out - clearly illustrates what has gone wrong with America and the problem is only going to get worse. Our country's society is heavily fragmented. Unless you are the type that stays well-informed or knowing micro-culture is specific to your job, you will never know what Oklahoma truly has to offer.

We as a people have become so ingrained in politically framing every single solitairy situation that we quickly get caught up in stereotyping, name-calling, making back-handed remarks and resort to belittling a group of people based on their political or religious views.

Here we have a situation where an NBC correspondent behaves in a manner that minimizes his own fellow countrymen based on the outcome of an election. It is unprofessional, and it makes him look stupid. To propagate the sterotype that conservatives are all poor, white and religious, much less the entire population of a state, is pure ignorance.

It is just as ignorant to assume there is nothing to do in Oklahoma as it is for Sally Kern to say that gays are a threat to society. Neither of the two are better than the other.

As far as the TNT correspondent, again, is a demonstration of pure ignorance. I don't expect him to be some expert on Oklahoma, but if you're going to make a remark about the city, you'd better have some solid data to back up your subject matter. Otherwise, if you know nothing about Oklahoma City, don't say anything about Oklahoma City. It's a simple equation. We all know that the supermajority of events in Oklahoma City do NOT involve a rodeo, and I don't expect him to know that, but he made the remark anyway because it is a habit Americans have taken. We are a society if assumptions - and bad ones at that.

It frustrates me because if the TNT correspondent was REALLY, TRULY curious about what there is to do in Oklahoma City, it is a simple click on the Google page. All of the actual, tangible information about everything Oklahoma is out there on the internet.

So, I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone who makes a smart ass remark about OKlahoma, especially TV personalities with a formal education because they DONT FREAKING CHECK THEIR WORK!!!

On the flip-side, there are Oklahomans that make Oklahoma look bad. We've hashed all of this out on the message board on many occasions. But, we pretend as though Oklahoma is the only state where embarassing legislation is passed, or where a church official or lawmaker makes an embarassing remark when we've seen this happen in pretty much every state. Even worse, we give people like Sally Kern WAY too much attention. We need to stop this.
Just food for thought.

[PennyQuilts]

The fact that Oklahoma is not a progressive/liberal state is nearly always why it gets hostile press. For many, there is nothing worse than a backwoods, conservative state with traditional values. The fact that many other states don't have their religion on their sleeve is nothing more than a fact until someone decides that is a good or a bad thing. Oklahoma is a wonderful state in many ways - low unemployment, great place to raise kids, etc. That's a good thing for many people, but if you are progressive/liberal/anti christian and in need of constant entertainment in an urban environment, it is not a particularly good place. Narrow minded people who see the whole picture only through a narrow filter of their own values have no trouble labeling the state as wretched, notwithstanding that it is a fantastic place for people to work and raise a family. They are entitled to their opinion, of course, but I wish they'd be fair about it. Just be honest and tell people to not go to Oklahoma if they are looking for nightclubs, smog, high unemployment, rain and mud, expensive health care, high cost of living, mountains, oceans and traffic.

[BBatesokc]

Name a city/state that isn't stereotyped in ways that can be taken both positively and negatively.

I know many families that purposely moved to Oklahoma from places like California and Nevada because of the positive image here that was such a contrast to where they had been living.

[PennyQuilts]

Name a city/state that isn't stereotyped in ways that can be taken both positively and negatively.

I know many families that purposely moved to Oklahoma from places like California and Nevada because of the positive image here that was such a contrast to where they had been living.

Exactly. The bad press comes from people who go to seed because Oklahoma isn't what THEY want. That doesn't mean there is anything "wrong" with it, necessarily. It just means the ones complaining so bitterly would perhaps be happier elsewhere or they are just chronic complainers so it wouldn't matter where they lived. I personally think young people who hate Oklahoma should spend several years someplace else and not come back until and unless they decide it isn't as awful as they thought. If they continue to think this is the armpit of the world, I'm happy for them to have made the jump to a place that makes them happier. And I say that confident that we have plenty of grown ups happy to live in Oklahoma who are doing their part to make it better and better. Look under any rock and you'll find people striving to improve the state who are too busy talking it up and loving being here to waste time trashing it like it is hell on earth.

[Pete]

Oklahoma is not a progressive/liberal state

Progressiveness has absolutely nothing to do with liberal or conservative.

It's about being forward-thinking and innovative; about strong initiates to attract businesses and help them flourish and about a large commitment to improving the quality of life through education, recreation, transportation, etc.

And considering the abysmal ratings the state gets in just about every health and education category, more progressive thinking and action is sorely needed.

There are lots of states in the middle of the country that do a much better job in all these areas.

[mcca7596]

Progressiveness has absolutely nothing to do with liberal or conservative.

It's about being forward-thinking and innovative; about strong initiates to attract businesses and help them flourish and about a large commitment to improving the quality of life through education, recreation, transportation, etc.

And considering the abysmal ratings the state gets in just about every health and education category, more progressive thinking and action is sorely needed.

There are lots of states in the middle of the country that do a much better job in all these areas.

+1

[metro]

could not disagree more with this post

2nd that

[adaniel]

Progressiveness has absolutely nothing to do with liberal or conservative.

It's about being forward-thinking and innovative; about strong initiates to attract businesses and help them flourish and about a large commitment to improving the quality of life through education, recreation, transportation, etc.

And considering the abysmal ratings the state gets in just about every health and education category, more progressive thinking and action is sorely needed.

There are lots of states in the middle of the country that do a much better job in all these areas.

Agree 100%. Before we start crying about why everyone is picking on us, maybe we should look in the mirror first. We would find that it probably has very little to do with politics and more to do with poor to nonexistent approaches many in this state take to cure our ills. OKC and its revival can only carry the state so far.

In that light, in regards to the NBA announcers, I say with complete respect that some need to grow some thicker skin. Every time some announcer clowns on OKC, everyone rages on. Um, every place gets picked on, its part of being a "big league city." Outside of NY, LA, and Miami, most media types just lump everyone together as flyover county filled with hayseeds and dumb rednecks.

[mmonroe]

I agree, we do have an image problem. That image problem is not caused by what you think it is. I believe, in my opinion of which I am entitled to, that the image problem lies in the lack of education about Oklahoma from people who are outside this state.

Our current stereotypes off the top of my head are:
! Dust Bowl
! Flat Land Prairie
! Religious Nuts
! Cowboys who ride horses and live in teepees
! Slow speaking and hickish
! Imbred backwood crackers

This was actually kind of fun making this list.

[G.Walker]

Well, when you have a Oklahoma reality show like Mudcats being watched by millions of Americans, what can you say? lol...

[G.Walker]

MUDCATS: Its a Oklahoma reality show about a bunch of back wood rednecks, with missing teeth, who get a joy out of going in muddy, snake infested water to see who can catch the biggest catfish with their bare hands. Then after its all over, they have a good ol' fish fry with country music and beer. WOW....

[Pete]

There is an image problem partially based on misconceptions that are slowly changing.

There is also an image problem that is earned and deserved based on actual facts that I've already listed.

Work on the second one will largely take care of the first. At the same time, the first can only change so much until we take care of the second.


I'm not saying we should aim for Colorado or Connecticut; buy why can't we get to at least the middle ground occupied by states like Kansas and Iowa?

As long was we are continually keeping company with Mississippi and Louisiana when it comes to health and education, a good part of any bad rep will be completely self-inflicted.

[Soonerman]

Progressiveness has absolutely nothing to do with liberal or conservative.

It's about being forward-thinking and innovative; about strong initiates to attract businesses and help them flourish and about a large commitment to improving the quality of life through education, recreation, transportation, etc.

And considering the abysmal ratings the state gets in just about every health and education category, more progressive thinking and action is sorely needed.

There are lots of states in the middle of the country that do a much better job in all these areas.

This

[gamecock]

I moved to Oklahoma from the East Coast 8 years ago, and I love it here. Sadly, most people who talk negatively about Oklahoma have never really seen what it has to offer.

There is also a political element at work, and Oklahoma is extremely conservative. I noticed these recent articles (links below) in my hometown paper that may be of interest.

Keep in mind, though, that there have also been a lot of very positive news stories about what's going on in Oklahoma, Oklahoma City, in particular over the past few years--in places like the Wall Street Journal, NY Times, Washington Post, and USA Today. I think it's unfair to say that all of the stories are negative.

By the way, I had never heard of Washington, Oklahoma, and I live less than 30 minutes away.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...6UxR_blog.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...R_gallery.html

[adaniel]

I'm not saying we should aim for Colorado or Connecticut; buy why can't we get to at least the middle ground occupied by states like Kansas and Iowa?

As long was we are continually keeping company with Mississippi and Louisiana when it comes to health and education, a good part of any bad rep will be completely self-inflicted.

I had a friend who used to joke that the state legislature should send a proclamation to Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, West Virginia, and Arkansas thanking them for their "service" in assuring that Oklahoma will never rank lower than 45th in any health or educational metric.

The frightening thing is that I actually think this is the strategy of some in the state house.

[MDot]

Oh, c'mon guys. Quit dogging on Mississippi! That's my native state right there. LOL

[Pete]

Do you realize we have actually fallen BEHIND some of those states now?

This is a very highly respected ranking system of key health indicators and not only is Oklahoma 48th (thanks only to MS and LA) overall, we have fallen from around 30th in 1990:

http://www.americashealthrankings.org/OK

Not only is the obesity rate trending up at an alarming rate, but the smoking rate (again, we're 48th) hasn't dropped at all in the last 15 years! When you see something like that you have to recognize there are serious problems tied to education as much as anything.

[okcpulse]

Despite whether OKC's image is improving in the nation's eyes, our quality of life has certainly changed. Compared to just 13 years ago, there are better restaurants, better museums, a better zoo, better shopping, better health care...

All the same, people in the media are too quick to assume there is nothing to do in "quiet, quaint" Oklahoma City. So, lets turn this discussion in another angle. What do NBA players do for fun in most cities outside of LA, NYC and Miami? Cam anyone answer the question?

I think the media assumes the Thunder's only option are honky tonks (those are sparce), rodeos and farms to get their kicks. Most people in other parts of the country don't know we even have lakes in the city.

[knightrider]

What do NBA players do for fun in most cities outside of LA, NYC and Miami? Cam anyone answer the question?

This is what I want to know also. Because I know for a fact that Russell Westbrook has been spotted at Riverwind on occasion playing Black Jack. Maybe the sports media/commentators said negative things about Memphis or San Antonio at one point and I wasn't around or didn't pay attention enough to hear it.

[Pete]

It's the price of being among the smallest pro franchise markets, especially when the players are largely from big urban areas.

All these same things were said about Sacramento and Salt Lake City when they were new to the NBA.


There was a whole other thread where we listed tons of late-night options in OKC for anyone interested in finding them:

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...870&highlight=

[dcsooner]

The comment regarding nothing to do was made by an African American and relates to the fact that the NBA consists of 70% African American players maybe 10-15%euro/hisp and 10% or so white. OKC does not have 1. A large African American population 2. Other options that appeal to MOST of that demographic. for example urban radio (OKC has one or two) hear in DC there are six or seven. Entertainment options for wealthy, young African American men are almost non existent as well as the number of eligible Black Females. OKC is one of maybe 4 NBA teams with small black populatons (UT, Phoenix, Portland, San Antonio) All others have very large African American populations. Oklahoma is conservative to a fault, and is to some not African American friendly. Remember the KKK comment somewhere in SW Oklahoma a fews months back? Sure other places have natural advantages like oceans, mountains, but OKC does not have the upscale retail options, upscale party options (most African Americans) are not going to Coyote Ugly or the other western themed bars. OKC does not have one single place for an educated, financially well to do and single African American to meet and greet young, hip, urban males or females. I give great credit to KD and the other players on our team for choosing a team with a rabid fan base, great ownership, and a growing winning culture, but, the facts are in comparison to other NBA cities a African American NBA player is on an island in OKC. Native Black Oklahomans leave the State in far greater numbers than you might expect, you might find them in Dallas or Houston or even here in DC where 5 of my hometown friends and at least 10 other native black Oklahomans that I know of live as I do.