Twelve Twelve

[betts]

The best place for true lofts (high ceilings, exposed brick walls and duct work, few if any partitions) are the upper floors of many buildings in Bricktown. Parking would be an issue but hopefully the people that would be drawn to such space would be willing to walk a block or two.

I agree, Pete. If it's not old, it's faux industrial, which is no different than faux French, IMO. There's nothing intrinsically wonderful about any style - it's all personal taste. If people want gritty, industrial lofts, then Bricktown is an excellent place to start. It's one of the largest concentrations of old buildings I can think of, at least close to the CBD. There are a few buildings north of Maywood that might serve as well. But most lofts like that are done by individuals, not developers.

And I agree, large windows with the correct orientation need no draping, as long as they're high enough that people can't see in - and you don't mind getting up with the sunrise and don't mind streetlights shining in your windows.

[adaniel]

The best place for true lofts (high ceilings, exposed brick walls and duct work, few if any partitions) are the upper floors of many buildings in Bricktown. Parking would be an issue but hopefully the people that would be drawn to such space would be willing to walk a block or two.

I'm always hearing that a lot of the upper floors of buildings in Bricktown have already been converted into lofts. I don't know how true that is, but when I was looking for a place a couple of years ago I never found something. But I knew some wait staff at some of the restaraunts down there who swore up and down that they are there.

[Pete]

No, most the buildings in Bricktown are vacant above the ground floor.

There has been lots of talk about buildings being turned into living lofts but I'm not aware of any at all in Bricktown.

It's amazing if you think about it.

[Urbanized]

It's not faux industrial if it is new. Believe it or not, industrial design and the construction of new commercial space happens every day in the world. It is built to a minimalist design standard using materials commonly used in industrial applications. There is a reason they are used in an industrial environment; they are inexpensive yet durable. Totally pragmatic, built purely for function, without needless attempts to "gussy it up" or cover the materials. What is so hard to understand here?

I do agree however that the holy grail is conversion of historic industrial space, and that Bricktown is has the best candidates for such conversion (with the exception of the former Fred Jones Manufacturing facility on Main). The best space for such conversion in Bricktown is actually the U-haul building, which has intact floor-to-ceiling casements on all four sides, covered up by the tin siding. That would be an incredible project. Second best (and most practical) is probably the old Mideke Supply Building, currently home to City Walk and Coco Flow. There are indeed others too.

But new construction can easily be done like this and is in no way inauthentic, unless it tries to trick you into believing it is old or converted.

[Urbanized]

No, most the buildings in Bricktown are vacant above the ground floor...

While there is considerable vacancy above the ground floor, there is quite a bit of ignorance regarding just how many upper floors are occupied. I am sitting in a third floor office on the canal as I type this, in a building that is basically 100% occupied. Most people - including many on this board - probably assume it is empty. There are a significant number of buildings in Bricktown largely or fully-occupied on upper floors with law offices, tech companies, government contractors, engineering firms, architectural firms, financial services companies, energy companies and more. For the most part, nobody acknowledges this when discussing Bricktown.

[Pete]

Glad to hear that, Urbanized.

Are you aware of any living units in Bricktown?

[betts]

It's not faux industrial if it is new. Believe it or not, industrial design and the construction of new commercial space happens every day in the world. It is built to a minimalist design standard using materials commonly used in industrial applications. There is a reason they are used in an industrial environment; they are inexpensive yet durable. Totally pragmatic, built purely for function, without needless attempts to "gussy it up" or cover the materials. What is so hard to understand here?

But new construction can easily be done like this and is in no way inauthentic, unless it tries to trick you into believing it is old or converted.

I'm just saying that anything residential that is built to mimic something else, in this case, old lofts or industrial buildings, is just as much faux as buildings built to mimic French chateaus or half-timbered Tudors. Lofts were not originally intended to be housing and anything built to look like that aesthetic is just as much mimicry as any other style. All that is important is that people live in places they enjoy and that give them pleasure. There's nothing intrinsically noble or wonderful about loft space - it's just a style that appeals to some. And most people who want a particular style that isn't currently being built do it themselves. If someone thinks lofts will sell well, and at a price point that makes it worthwhile, a developer might step in. But, until that happens, just like in NYC, if we want a loft, we have to find one and convert it ourselves. Or, we have to become the developer.

[BoulderSooner]

Glad to hear that, Urbanized.

Are you aware of any living units in Bricktown?

there is at least one in the bourbon st cafe building ... the owner of the biting sow lived there (he sold that building and leased his apt for 1 more year)

[Urbanized]

Glad to hear that, Urbanized.

Are you aware of any living units in Bricktown?

BoulderSooner is right about the Loft in the Fox Vliet (Bourbon Street) Building. It is large (entire floorplate large) and almost over-the-top in buildout. Definitely designed as a party pad for French Hickman, but he did actually live in it full time at some point. Not sure if he is still.

There are also several housing units in upper floors of buildings on Main Street.

But the Fox-Vliet Building is an example of what I was talking about; it was 100% built out on upper floors more than 10 years ago, but most people probably don't know this. It was home to Advanced Academics and Johnson & Associates engineers for some time until they both moved to the Bunte Candy Company Building. The office space in Fox-Vliet is outstanding Class A type space. Not sure who if anyone has moved back into this space.

The Bunte is now substantially if not completely built out on upper floors too, and is home to those firms plus the OKC offices of the Chickasaw Nation. I was just in those offices about two weeks ago, and they were sleek, modern and tremendously cool. They are working on a retail solution for their incredible ground floor space.

Other buildings that are substantially or completely occupied on upper floors (most with incredibly nice office space) are the Miller-Jackson Building, the JDM Building, Oklahoma Hardware (ACM@UCO), the entire south side of Sheridan between Oklahoma Avenue and Mickey Mantle (Glass, Confectionary), the Harding and Shelton buildings on the south side of the canal (I posted a link to their killer office space in another thread).

The Banjo Museum uses its entire upper floor for beautiful exhibit space. The aforementioned buildings on Main across from the police station have all been built out, some with cool office space, some with residential. These buildings alone count for many tens of thousands of square feet of fully remodeled and occupied space.

Others that have fully built out and make use of upper floors include Tapwerks (2nd is additional bar, 3rd is event space), Nonna's, Bricktown Brewery, Crabtown, Chelino's. Standley Systems is making progress again on their Main Street buildout, which will include the upper floors.

The most disappointingly underutilized upper floor space are Rock Island Plow (entire building derelict), U-haul (100% used, but surely not highest and best use), Spaghetti Warehouse (fantastic opportunity, but windows bricked for decades), Mideke (he's been trying to get housing going), 3rd & 4th floors of Brewery (great housing opportunity I think), 2nd floor Abuelo's (tough to utilize due to config issues), 2nd floor Brickz (modernized for Brewery but since removed from that operation), upper floors of Melting Pot (I believe stabilization work has been done, but still looking for tenants, another good housing candidate IMO).

French has two small buildings on the canal between ACM and Chelino's that are unused on upper (or any) floors. And the Hunzicker Brothers (old Bricktown Haunted House) is mostly empty upper floor, though there is banquet space above the under-construction Sammy's Pizza. I do know that the Brewers are working on some ideas for the Hunzicker, some of them pretty interesting, so I hope they come to pass.

I have never added up the square footage, but my gut is that there is now more upper floor space that has been remodeled and is in use in Bricktown than not. If you take out Spaghetti Warehouse and/or Rock Island Plow, I feel certain of it.

For some time I have wanted to take photos of some of the really cool office space in this district and share on here, but haven't had the time or initiative. Would like to start a thread that shows all buildings in BT that have upper floors and then show what is in each.

Either way, I think it is unfortunate (yet true) that most people assume all or "most" of these upper floors are undeveloped. It's simply not correct, and another example of how kneejerk negativity to Bricktown is often based in some pretty flimsy "facts" and outdated information.

[Urbanized]

Maybe these off-topic posts could be the basis of that thread, actually.

[Urbanized]

I'm just saying that anything residential that is built to mimic something else, in this case, old lofts or industrial buildings, is just as much faux as buildings built to mimic French chateaus or half-timbered Tudors. Lofts were not originally intended to be housing and anything built to look like that aesthetic is just as much mimicry as any other style. All that is important is that people live in places they enjoy and that give them pleasure. There's nothing intrinsically noble or wonderful about loft space - it's just a style that appeals to some. And most people who want a particular style that isn't currently being built do it themselves. If someone thinks lofts will sell well, and at a price point that makes it worthwhile, a developer might step in. But, until that happens, just like in NYC, if we want a loft, we have to find one and convert it ourselves. Or, we have to become the developer.

Based on your definition, EVERY type of building is mimicry. Maybe they are.

But what I am saying is that if it is built in a utilitarian fashion, only to provide the basic function of shelter, it is not mimicry. It might be somewhat similar to an old warehouse, in that they were also built spare of any ornamentation and only to serve a basic function, which leads in both cases to exposed mechanicals, an emphasis on natural light, and the like, but it is only mimicry if you put in fake old-fashioined rolling fire doors or distressed cedar post and beam, or whatever, designed to fool the observer into thinking it is an old building. The fact that it is built for function alone actually makes it more authentic than most styles of construction.

[Urbanized]

Excuse me. Brewery is only a two-story building (both occupied by brewery). Both derelict floors I was thinking of were above Brix, which I also mi-spelled (I couldn't remember how to correctly mis-spell Bricks, I guess).

[BoulderSooner]

thanks for the great bricktown recap ...

[Urbanized]

Hah, you're welcome, sorry it's in a thread where it doesn't belong!

[CCOKC]

What about the upper floors in Auto Alley. I have been to wine tastings in the space above Broadway Wine Merchants and thought how cool a space like that would make as an apartment. I walked down Broadway a few weeks ago on my way to a Thunder game and read the plaques in the sidewalk and noticed how many of these buildings used to be hotels back in the day. I still can't believe how many former hotels were in Midtown and Auto Alley. Hell, I am sitting in one right now at 9th and Robinson and can easily see 4 or 5 from my 4th floor window without moving my chair. Who used to stay in all these hotels? Most of these hotel spaces seem primed for residential conversion.

[ljbab728]

Who used to stay in all these hotels?

Back in the day, many people basically lived in hotels.

[metro]

Boulder, any word on a revised date for the balconies? I know a couple weeks ago you mentioned next week, but it's been 2-3 weeks since then and no balconies. I'd like to get pics of them going up.

[BoulderSooner]

Boulder, any word on a revised date for the balconies? I know a couple weeks ago you mentioned next week, but it's been 2-3 weeks since then and no balconies. I'd like to get pics of them going up.

should be any day now ... i will try to check and see if i can get a better firm date ..

[Skyline]

Have any of these units been pre-leased?

Also will the residents of 1212 have rooftop access?

[Pete]

Pretty sure there won't be any sort of roof-top deck...

For leasing, this is the information from their website: Contact Jana Krauss for more information at (405) 488-6262 or info@midtownr.com

[Skyline]

nm

[wschnitt]

The last of the ground floor windows are going in!

[BoulderSooner]

the balconies are going up on the east side of 1212

[metro]

East side?

[BoulderSooner]

East side?

yes .. i'm sure the west side will be next ..... the east and west will pretty much look the same