Is part or most of OKC going to be mexico in the next few years??

[PennyQuilts]

This

Sad that we have to such down a legitimate thead because the PC group scream so loud and can't tolerate a rational discussion.

[earlywinegareth]

gotta be the dumbest thread in the history of okctalk - i think i need a vacation from the inanities

[RadicalModerate]

It is hard to imagine that such a judgmental lot thinks they have the moral authority or discernment to lecture others. Their meanspirited, sanctimonious hypocrisy is astounding. The fact that I am white means nothing to anyone but someone who judges others by the skin color. What I am saying crosses racial lines, regardless of my race. The only clearcut bigotry I've seen are the ones who seem to think that it is open season on white people. Anyone who thinks judging others on race who turns right around and attacks someone for being white (or white people as a group) is a straight up bigot. Racism is racism. We'll never move beyond it until people stop thinking that certain groups are legitimate targets. Slamming white people on the basis of their race, these days, is no different than slamming other minority groups at other times. All these people are doing is keeping racism alive by changing the target. Racism is disgusting. The ones attacking white people LIKE racism or they wouldn't do it.

You may be right--about the ranking on the dumbness scale, of this thread--yet it would be difficult to top the observation, quoted, above.

(Hope I got all the punctuation rite. Some folks are pretty picky about that stuff.)

[MikeLucky]

It is hard to imagine that such a judgmental lot thinks they have the moral authority or discernment to lecture others. Their meanspirited, sanctimonious hypocrisy is astounding. The fact that I am white means nothing to anyone but someone who judges others by the skin color. What I am saying crosses racial lines, regardless of my race. The only clearcut bigotry I've seen are the ones who seem to think that it is open season on white people. Anyone who thinks judging others on race who turns right around and attacks someone for being white (or white people as a group) is a straight up bigot. Racism is racism. We'll never move beyond it until people stop thinking that certain groups are legitimate targets. Slamming white people on the basis of their race, these days, is no different than slamming other minority groups at other times. All these people are doing is keeping racism alive by changing the target. Racism is disgusting. The ones attacking white people LIKE racism or they wouldn't do it.

How is anything I said a slam on white people? I am slamming someone that has posted what appears to be a racist comment. And yet you are a white person that wasn't bothered by the comment. All I pointed out to you was that it didn't bother you since you are white.

But, it MIGHT have bothered you if you were a hispanic person that is an educated hard working Oklahoman that knows when the original poster sees him in and around his own damn home he thinks "there goes the neighborhood."

What kind of reaction do you think I would get if my username was hispaniccollegegrad and I started a thread about how a blue collar electrician moved in next door and he appears to one of several service people that moved into my neighborhood lately... Gee, I bet it would go pretty similar to this one.

[Roadhawg]

gotta be the dumbest thread in the history of okctalk - i think i need a vacation from the inanities

You must have missed the Dana thread lol

[RadicalModerate]

How is anything I said a slam on white people?
I am slamming someone that has posted what appears to be a racist comment.

Whereas, you immediately classified the first post of this thread as being [sic] "rascist" (although there is nothing in it specifically indicating that the initial poster thinks that the possibility of OKC becoming a "mini-mexico is necessarily a bad thing); then, later, wondered why he (or she--stereotyping an "electrician" with a "girlfriend" as a straight male is politically incorrect) hadn't been back to check the thread (an exercise in conjecture, special knowledge, or both); and then followed that up with the apparant ability to read the thoughts (albeit semi-paranoid) of the [Hispanic] man on the street regarding his "white" neighbor, I am surprised you would have to ask that question.

I am also surprised that you think PQ was referring specifically to you.

(Not to mention the unconscious racism implicit in assuming that the "electrician" him- or her-self wasn't Hispanic! After all, the skill sets of the fine and talented members of that ethnic group are not limited to landscaping.)

[PennyQuilts]

All I pointed out to you was that it didn't bother you since you are white.

This is the heart of racism, my friend. You think you know enough about me to judge purely based on my race. That you meant it in a benign way doesn't change the fact that you are distinquishing based on race and think you understand and know my heart based on race. You can tell me what YOU think and attribute it to your race if you like. You don't know enough about me to say and to assume you know my motivations or abilities or anything of that nature, based on my race, is racism. What you said was far more racist than the original poster - you didn't even mince words about it. I know you didn't mean it that way and I don't take offense but the fact remains that your mindset was racism in its purest form. You weren't saying you hate white people (or black people or asian people or hispanics) but once you cross the threshhold to think race is a legitimate tool to "know" much about someone, you walk right through the door to start making decisions based on faulty knowledge. And a less kind person than yourself suddenly has no real reason to hold back on hating others based on race since they think they are free to attribute all kinds of nasty motivations or behaviors to others on that basis.

Some of the other posters were far less benign. They made wholesale attacks. This nonsense about looking forward to whites becoming a minority is shocking in the extreme. I am not saying I am opposed to more diversity but I AM shocked that someone would target any race and - based on their race - celebrate that they are going away.

The fact that some people think it is okay to attack white people seems to be based in the notion that "white" is a proxy for privilege. It is a morally bankrupt notion that thinks someone can legitimately distinguish good reasons and bad reasons for racism. When I read those comments I am reminded of the years leading up to WWII in Europe. I am not saying that is happening here - don't get me wrong. But I would like to point out to the people who think that it is okay to attack white people as a race because they are privileged that the exact same mentality was used to justify the attitudes towards jewish people. Jews were slandered without mercy because people hated them due to their perceived wealth and influence. The same people who are attacking white people because of their race who think that it is benign because whites are a majority and are privileged, to me, fall into the same category as the jew haters. Their behavior is identical to what happened pre WWII. Again, I am not saying we are going that way but the attitude and motivation is pretty much identical. I wouldn't be proud of that.

Everyone, if they want to, can find a reason to be prejudiced. The ones who struggle with it are aware that racism seems to fall across all racial lines and may even be part of who we are as human beings. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who decry racism towards some groups but engage in it, full scale, towards other groups. Until we, as a culture, decide that race is a really stupid way to judge worth or motivations in other people, there will continue to be large groups of people who use it as an excuse to hate and think that so long as they get the "correct" group in their gun sights, they can engage in racism with impunity. "Correct" group to hate seems to be defined by the crowd you hang around with once race is legitimized as an important factor to consider in determining worth or characteristics.

[MikeLucky]

How is anything I said a slam on white people?
I am slamming someone that has posted what appears to be a racist comment.

Whereas, you immediately classified the first post of this thread as being [sic] "rascist" (although there is nothing in it specifically indicating that the initial poster thinks that the possibility of OKC becoming a "mini-mexico is necessarily a bad thing); then, later, wondered why he (or she--stereotyping an "electrician" with a "girlfriend" as a straight male is politically incorrect) hadn't been back to check the thread (an exercise in conjecture, special knowledge, or both); and then followed that up with the apparant ability to read the thoughts (albeit semi-paranoid) of the [Hispanic] man on the street regarding his "white" neighbor, I am surprised you would have to ask that question.

I am also surprised that you think PQ was referring specifically to you.

Considering I am hispanic there isn't much mind reading going on there. And now that you mention that the original poster could be a woman, I have started thinking about something completely different than anything going on in this thread. And you don't have to be a mind reader to figure that one out. lol

And since I was post number 2 and led it with saying the original poster said something racist, I definitely assumed that PQ was talking to me.

And to be fair, I am half mexican, 1/4 czech, and 1/4 scotch-irish. I look something like a mexican, but in the airports it gets confused for 'terrorist' so I usually get some special treatment there. lol. And even sometimes I get A LOT of help at Dillards too. But, I am also educated and work behind a computer. And if I wear a tie and see a yard crew of hispanics at the fast food restaurant, they look at me like I sold out and somehow offended THEM by bettering myself. And you wouldn't believe the treatment my white girlfriend at the time and I received in predominantly hispanic New Mexico when we were there on a trip. I've seen a very dynamic range of racism in my lifetime.

So, I agree with PQ that 'racism is racism.' And that's what I saw in the very first post of this thread and I called it out. Just like I would if the situation were reversed.

[MikeLucky]

This is the heart of racism, my friend. You think you know enough about me to judge purely based on my race. That you meant it in a benign way doesn't change the fact that you are distinquishing based on race and think you understand and know my heart based on race. You can tell me what YOU think and attribute it to your race if you like. You don't know enough about me to say and to assume you know my motivations or abilities or anything of that nature, based on my race, is racism. What you said was far more racist than the original poster - you didn't even mince words about it. I know you didn't mean it that way and I don't take offense but the fact remains that your mindset was racism in its purest form. You weren't saying you hate white people (or black people or asian people or hispanics) but once you cross the threshhold to think race is a legitimate tool to "know" much about someone, you walk right through the door to start making decisions based on faulty knowledge. And a less kind person than yourself suddenly has no real reason to hold back on hating others based on race since they think they are free to attribute all kinds of nasty motivations or behaviors to others on that basis.

Some of the other posters were far less benign. They made wholesale attacks. This nonsense about looking forward to whites becoming a minority is shocking in the extreme. I am not saying I am opposed to more diversity but I AM shocked that someone would target any race and - based on their race - celebrate that they are going away.

The fact that some people think it is okay to attack white people seems to be based in the notion that "white" is a proxy for privilege. It is a morally bankrupt notion that thinks someone can legitimately distinguish good reasons and bad reasons for racism. When I read those comments I am reminded of the years leading up to WWII in Europe. I am not saying that is happening here - don't get me wrong. But I would like to point out to the people who think that it is okay to attack white people as a race because they are privileged that the exact same mentality was used to justify the attitudes towards jewish people. Jews were slandered without mercy because people hated them due to their perceived wealth and influence. The same people who are attacking white people because of their race who think that it is benign because whites are a majority and are privileged, to me, fall into the same category as the jew haters. Their behavior is identical to what happened pre WWII. Again, I am not saying we are going that way but the attitude and motivation is pretty much identical. I wouldn't be proud of that.

Everyone, if they want to, can find a reason to be prejudiced. The ones who struggle with it are aware that racism seems to fall across all racial lines and may even be part of who we are as human beings. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who decry racism towards some groups but engage in it, full scale, towards other groups. Until we, as a culture, decide that race is a really stupid way to judge worth or motivations in other people, there will continue to be large groups of people who use it as an excuse to hate and think that so long as they get the "correct" group in their gun sights, they can engage in racism with impunity. "Correct" group to hate seems to be defined by the crowd you hang around with once race is legitimized as an important factor to consider in determining worth or characteristics.

Penny I think this is a very thought out and well written post. And honestly I agree with you much more than it appears in this thread. Saying you weren't offended by the original post because you were white was a racist comment and I said it for effect.

Racism IS a difficult topic and we obviously aren't going to solve it here. lol. But to be clear I am not just coming after white people. I felt that the original post was a racist comment and I stand by that. Maybe it was intended to be racist, and maybe it wasn't. But, until the OP comes back and clarifies their intentions we're all just spitting in the wind.

But at this point it appears to be trolling. So I wouldn't hold my breath on any clarification. lol

[RadicalModerate]

"Considering I am hispanic there isn't much mind reading going on there."
Dang, Bro . . . Careful what you say: Some people could take that self-describing sentence as a racial slur regarding the cranial capacity of [a certain ethnic group] . . . If it was misread. =)

"And to be fair, I am half mexican, 1/4 czech, and 1/4 scotch-irish."
I'm a Euro-Mongrel, Half-Swedish/Northern European Other (including some Scottish and Irish!).

Since there were lots of "Vikings in the Woodpiles" of pre-Medieval Europe--including the "British" Isles, we could be cousins!

There seems to be a lot of Diversity going on here. And that's a good thing!
(I wonder if anyone knows the words to Kum-ba-ya in Spanish) . . .

So . . . Is it possible that the "extra attention" at airports is due to the Irish connection?
Or just overzealous TSA agents? (Sorry: Off topic)

[PennyQuilts]

So, I agree with PQ that 'racism is racism.' And that's what I saw in the very first post of this thread and I called it out. Just like I would if the situation were reversed.

Still, you DIDN"T call it out when people were attacking other groups. Moreover, you made a big jump to accuse someone of racism based on your subjective view of the world. You sound like a reasonable person and I'd expect that before you jumped in on that, you'd have asked a few more questions. It is bad enough in person to determine people's motivations. Online, it is a lot harder.

If I were that original poster, it wouldn't be trolling that would keep me away. It would be the meanspirited response I got. If I were him, sincere or otherwise, I'd think this group was nuts based on how they responded. Anyone reading this thread to get to know OKCTalk wouldn't get a complimentary picture based on what happened in this thread - and I don't mean the first poster. There are plenty of ways to deal with someone you think is racist besides the way some handled it.

[MikeLucky]

"Considering I am hispanic there isn't much mind reading going on there."
Dang, Bro . . . Careful what you say: Some people could take that self-describing sentence as a racial slur regarding the cranial capacity of [a certain ethnic group] . . . If it was misread. =)

"And to be fair, I am half mexican, 1/4 czech, and 1/4 scotch-irish."
I'm a Euro-Mongrel, Half-Swedish/Northern European Other (including some Scottish and Irish!).

Since there were lots of "Vikings in the Woodpiles" of pre-Medieval Europe--including the "British" Isles, we could be cousins!

There seems to be a lot of Diversity going on here. And that's a good thing!
(I wonder if anyone knows the words to Kum-ba-ya in Spanish) . . .

So . . . Is it possible that the "extra attention" at airports is due to the Irish connection?
Or just overzealous TSA agents? (Sorry: Off topic)

Lol... It's not the Irish connection unless I've been in the bar already. And honestly, the extra attention in the airport doesn't bother me. Profiling happens and after 911 I just came to terms with the fact that if you sort of look a certain way the TSA folks are going to search you. The airport is not the place to try to battle that... if you do, the best case scenario is you miss your connecting flight and worst case involves the agents putting gloves on.

[PennyQuilts]

You want to talk profiling? Try being a woman in an auto parts store! <g>

[MsProudSooner]

The original post is, at best, very badly worded. At worst, it is a racist post from a troll. Since the poster has very few posts and one of them insinuated that OKC was a city of low wage jobs based on the fact that an outlet mall is being built, it wasn't hard to form an opinion. I think most people would welcome it if he returned and explained himself further, but he doesn't seem to be so inclined.

[Bunty]

Agree, OKC needs more diversity not less. OKC and OK in general needs to move past its present state of uneducated, intolerent, single minded people.

Many legisators at the Oklahoma State Capitol would disagree with you considering the anti-immigrant bills they have passed. Having Oklahomans vote successfully against Sharia law didn't look tolerant, either.

[Wambo36]

Many legisators at the Oklahoma State Capitol would disagree with you considering the anti-illegal-immigrant bills they have passed. Having Oklahomans vote successfully against Sharia law didn't look tolerant, either.

There you go Bunty, I fixed your post. You left out the key word. Funny how that word gets left out all of the time when people discuss this subject. We have a system in place, follow it or risk the consequences. If it's not working fix it, but don't act like it's not there and then blame the ones trying to uphold the current laws. Please inform us of any laws that stifle legal immigration, if there are any.

[USG'60]

Many legisators at the Oklahoma State Capitol would disagree with you considering the anti-immigrant bills they have passed. Having Oklahomans vote successfully against Sharia law didn't look tolerant, either.

How many Mexicans immigrate to OKC legally? How many do the laws allow?

[PennyQuilts]

The original post is, at best, very badly worded. At worst, it is a racist post from a troll. Since the poster has very few posts and one of them insinuated that OKC was a city of low wage jobs based on the fact that an outlet mall is being built, it wasn't hard to form an opinion. I think most people would welcome it if he returned and explained himself further, but he doesn't seem to be so inclined.

Don't blame him.

[PennyQuilts]

How many Mexicans immigrate to OKC legally? How many do the laws allow?

That is governed by the feds from the legal standpoint. State laws are limited to dealing with illegal immigration and as we have seen, have to walk a tightrope to keep from stepping on federal toes. Don't know how many legally immigrate. I am always astounded at how many immigrants (of any nationality) that go to the DC area. It is sooooo expensive there.

I'm not an immigration lawyer but there are several categories prospective citizens need to fall into to be eligible. The idea in controlling immigration is to only allow people citizenship if they can support themselves and aren't a drain on society. That's the main problem with illegal immigration - it guts our social services and turns the policy of bringing in only as many as we can afford on its head.

They don't parcel out among the states who can go where when it comes to citizenship. Green card immigrants can be students, have a good job and a sponsor, or other categories. Some have limits on time and where they can go. Actually, I am not sure where they can go is limited but living in an area that would defeat the purpose of the green card probably could get them booted. There are hardship cases where some people can be approved that amount to being given asylum to keep from being killed (refugees, for example).

[BlackmoreRulz]

Fantastic posts Penny, they reminded me of this great quote from Dr Ron Paul:

Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans only as members of groups and never as individuals. Racists believe that all individual who share superficial physical characteristics are alike; as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their intense focus on race is inherently racist, because it views individuals only as members of racial groups.

[PennyQuilts]

Some of the saddest cases I used to see as a guardian ad litem would be an American woman having children with an illegal. He'd get deported and sometimes try to get custody of his child/children to take with him. Frequently, these guys are already married so they can't marry their American Honey and stay in the states on that basis.

Alternatively, we'd get TWO illegals with American born children who would split up and one would want to go back home. Ugly, ugly.

The ones that used to tear me up would be long term illegals who would have families here. Often, the parents still couldn't speak English after, say, ten years, but the kids (both ones born here and ones merely raised here) don't know any other life.

The trickiest cases are when some children are treated as anchor babies and others are also illegal.

And I saw a ton of kids swapped back and forth between families in, say, El Salvador. Senor and his wife would be here, legally, but would send their children back to the old country and substitute a cousin for a year or two so he could get an education, then swap back and have to reschool their own child who would drop back into, say, third grade, and not know how to speak English. It is hard on the kids as you might imagine. As a mother, I can't even imagine how they could do that without their heart breaking. That was so common that I used to routinely ask for photos of the kids from the time they were little. Invariably, if they'd get busted, the changeling would be spirited back to El Salvador (or whereever) and Junior would reappear in his stead.

How illegals get in and out of the country, I have no idea. I suspect the ones with green cards take a child (their own or a different family member/neighbor) and make the swap. The airline and customs wouldn't know with little kids.

[PennyQuilts]

Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans only as members of groups and never as individuals. Racists believe that all individual who share superficial physical characteristics are alike; as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their intense focus on race is inherently racist, because it views individuals only as members of racial groups.

Love that! I am not sure about collectivists but no question, when we try to define individuals based on the group they are lumped into, you get a bad stew.

[USG'60]

There you go Bunty, I fixed your post. You left out the key word. Funny how that word gets left out all of the time when people discuss this subject. We have a system in place, follow it or risk the consequences. If it's not working fix it, but don't act like it's not there and then blame the ones trying to uphold the current laws. Please inform us of any laws that stifle legal immigration, if there are any.

Penny, I got the feeling from Wambo's post that he REALLY doesn't want them here but that if they were going to come they should do it legally, as if that was a piece of cake. We would have vitually no "Hispanic" immigration if only those allowed by the quotas came. I am genuinely interested in the number allow into the country -- by nation, of course.

[MikeOKC]

From State of Emergency by Pat Buchanan...page 11...

"America faces an existential crisis. If we do not get control of our borders, by 2050 Americans of European descent will be a minority in the nation their ancestors created and built. No nation has ever undergone so radical a demographic transformation and survived."

I agree. That doesn't make me racist - it means I know who and what built this country.

[redrunner]

So I got to wondering if the original poster's comment was meant as a concern that illegal immigrants were increasing in their numbers and scope or is he just not okay with having to live and work with Latino Americans who have every right to live in Oklahoma City as he does. Because you have no way of knowing someone is an illegal immigrant just by looking at them. Does freedom and ability to live wherever one wants to live exclusive to one color of people? I wish the OP would explain where he's coming from instead of everyone trading jabs at each other.