If you don't live downtown, why not?

[Patrick]

Plus I have never really found downtown OKC, particularly Bricktown and Deep Deuce and points in between, to be as pedestrian-friendly as they should. I mean if the whole point of downtown living is density and effective sidewalks, why do developers think they can charge top dollar when we have neither?

You just reminded me of another reason I chose to move in a fairly new housing addition is far NW OKC....side walks. Used to live in the Mayfair area, NW 50th and May, and none of the neighborhoods had sidewalks. That annoyed me, because if you wanted to walk anywhere, you had to walk out in the street. Most new housing additions have sidewalks, and in my addition, I've found them to be very useable.

[soonerfan_in_okc]

1. no
2. Because i go to OU.

My older brother however is a law student at OCU, and lives in some condos on NW 15th and Robinson. I forgot what they are called, but they are right next to heritage hills and he loves the area. We are from NW okc in the PC school district, and he loves the lifestyle down there. He tells me that he had no idea there was an area in OKC like that (He went to baylor for his bachelors, so coming back home he wanted a change).

[betts]

You just reminded me of another reason I chose to move in a fairly new housing addition is far NW OKC....side walks. Used to live in the Mayfair area, NW 50th and May, and none of the neighborhoods had sidewalks. That annoyed me, because if you wanted to walk anywhere, you had to walk out in the street. Most new housing additions have sidewalks, and in my addition, I've found them to be very useable.

Luckily, however, now when streets are redone, I believe there is a city ordinance stating that sidewalks have to be installed. I noticed they're putting sidewalks on Oklahoma south of 10th street, which will help the walk up to 9th street for us. Previously, it was easier to walk over to Broadway and then east on 9th, but when they're complete when can just walk up Oklahoma. I'm pleased.

[TheTravellers]

Don't know what options you have, but have you tried different routes or times? I worked DT for a while and live in far NW OKC and could get to work in 20-25 minutes (taking the turnpike to I-40), but the total time depended a lot on when I left for work. There was a sweet spot window where I could make my best time, but ten minutes on either side of that I started to run into heavier traffic. The only time I went over 30 minutes was due to an accident on the I-40 bridge over I-44.

Yeah, it's all relative. I have friends in Dallas and Charlotte that just roll their eyes if I happen to mention it took me a whole 30 minutes to drive to work.

30 minutes was with no traffic at all on Christmas Day - Penn (or May) to Kilpatrick to Broadway to downtown. Wife's shift isn't the regular 8-5, so her regular commute isn't during standard rush hours either and it's about 30 minutes. And 30 minutes for a commute is really not that bad, it's just that I'd like it to be less. I've dealt with 90 minute (or more) one-way commutes via car/train/walk (or bus) in both Seattle and Chicago for years, so 30 minutes is pretty much nothing to me too, but if we can make it better, why not?

[bluedogok]

You just reminded me of another reason I chose to move in a fairly new housing addition is far NW OKC....side walks. Used to live in the Mayfair area, NW 50th and May, and none of the neighborhoods had sidewalks. That annoyed me, because if you wanted to walk anywhere, you had to walk out in the street. Most new housing additions have sidewalks, and in my addition, I've found them to be very useable.

Previous city engineers decreed "NO SIDEWALKS" and thus there was none....

[bluedogok]

Luckily, however, now when streets are redone, I believe there is a city ordinance stating that sidewalks have to be installed. I noticed they're putting sidewalks on Oklahoma south of 10th street, which will help the walk up to 9th street for us. Previously, it was easier to walk over to Broadway and then east on 9th, but when they're complete when can just walk up Oklahoma. I'm pleased.

Any road work using federal funds requires sidewalks in place and accessible for persons with disabilities. I'm not sure if the city has officially changed the policy of the previous engineers or just ignored their long held views. Whatever has happened, if they are putting sidewalks in, it is a good thing.

One of the former city engineers tried to fight this, he lost out to the feds. For some reason they were about the only ones that could tell him what to do, he was one of the biggest opponents of pedestrian access in the city and the reason why so few sidewalks were installed during his lengthy tenure. His retirement was one of the best things to happen to OKC.

[MikeOKC]

No downtown living. I really wanted to but the bang for the buck was just not there. Anybody who has compared quality, square footage, prices and amenities would know why I am at Founders Tower. Yes, it's expensive. The downtown options were expensive. But, in my mind, you get so much more here in the NWX corridor. And, yes, nearby amenities played a role.

By the way, they are now leasing some of the units at Founders. From what I hear, the lease payments are way up there for OKC, but I'm sure they want it that way for a lot of reasons.

[okclee]

$6K a month to lease the penthouse at Founders Tower.

[Jethrol]

I have no desire to live downtown. Seems too young and too focused on the night life/bar scene for me. I'm 43 and prefer a quieter lifestyle.

[BBatesokc]

No downtown living. I really wanted to but the bang for the buck was just not there. Anybody who has compared quality, square footage, prices and amenities would know why I am at Founders Tower. Yes, it's expensive. The downtown options were expensive. But, in my mind, you get so much more here in the NWX corridor. And, yes, nearby amenities played a role.

By the way, they are now leasing some of the units at Founders. From what I hear, the lease payments are way up there for OKC, but I'm sure they want it that way for a lot of reasons.

They've been leasing units there for a awhile now. $1,600 for an 1,100 sq foot 1 bedroom is ridiculous. It's been a year or so since I was there, but at that time there were no amenities I recall (Gym, business center, pool) and they wanted you to park in the regular unreserved uncovered parking lot.

[MikeOKC]

They've been leasing units there for a awhile now. $1,600 for an 1,100 sq foot 1 bedroom is ridiculous. It's been a year or so since I was there, but at that time there were no amenities I recall (Gym, business center, pool) and they wanted you to park in the regular unreserved uncovered parking lot.

Hi Brian. Yes, the leasing has been going on for awhile now, but I still run into many people who don't know. As for the amenities, there's a pool, covered parking, armed security 24-7, the entire experience can make a list of amenities. It's a very nice place and the people here are really great. I like being around grocery stores, book stores, restaurants, retail all over (in fact, Penn Square's a little over a mile away). The lease price may seem high, but you get what you pay for. I don't think the people here pay for the square footage, it's not like comparing it to some generic complex. I can assure you the cost of purchase is in line with what they're asking downtown and the quality is far superior. http://www.founderstower.com/index.p...=85&Itemid=182

[BBatesokc]

I'm not knocking the place. I actually took the photos and 360 photo tours for ApartmentGuide.com. Its beautiful inside (at least the units I saw). A couple of the bedrooms were kinda odd sized though and the tiny patios on some created an unbelievable vacuum. The manager at the time (don't remember her name, but kinda exotic looking) said amenities were in the works. I actually really like the location and the wife and I visit that Borders Books at least twice a month. I just think of the house one can buy with a $1,600/month payment.

[Patrick]

Luckily, however, now when streets are redone, I believe there is a city ordinance stating that sidewalks have to be installed. I noticed they're putting sidewalks on Oklahoma south of 10th street, which will help the walk up to 9th street for us. Previously, it was easier to walk over to Broadway and then east on 9th, but when they're complete when can just walk up Oklahoma. I'm pleased.

But unfortunately, some residential streets will never be redone, so hoping that the millions of miles of residential streets get side walks is dreaming I think.

[Patrick]

Hi Brian. Yes, the leasing has been going on for awhile now, but I still run into many people who don't know. As for the amenities, there's a pool, covered parking, armed security 24-7, the entire experience can make a list of amenities. It's a very nice place and the people here are really great. I like being around grocery stores, book stores, restaurants, retail all over (in fact, Penn Square's a little over a mile away). The lease price may seem high, but you get what you pay for. I don't think the people here pay for the square footage, it's not like comparing it to some generic complex. I can assure you the cost of purchase is in line with what they're asking downtown and the quality is far superior. http://www.founderstower.com/index.p...=85&Itemid=182

Wow, that picture is pretty impressive. Can't really compare that to a suburban apartment in a typical 2-3 story spread out apartment complex.

[betts]

I walked to the Thunder game tonight, watched the fireworks and the ball drop on my balcony with neighbors and friends and didn't have to worry about a designated driver as I walked down to my bedroom and went to sleep. New Year's Eve is one of the more special nights downtown.

[MadMonk]

If I HAD to live in an apartment, those in Founders Tower would be at the top of my list.

[BBatesokc]

I walked to the Thunder game tonight, watched the fireworks and the ball drop on my balcony with neighbors and friends and didn't have to worry about a designated driver as I walked down to my bedroom and went to sleep. New Year's Eve is one of the more special nights downtown.

I agree, downtown events for downtown residence are awesome. We didn't even bother to leave Deep Deuce. We got a pizza at the Wedge and watched the fireworks from our friends living room.

[betts]

I have never really found downtown OKC, particularly Bricktown and Deep Deuce and points in between, to be as pedestrian-friendly as they should. I mean if the whole point of downtown living is density and effective sidewalks, why do developers think they can charge top dollar when we have neither?

This confuses me a bit. What would make Bricktown, Deep Deuce and points in between more walkable? There are sidewalks everywhere and the stop lights can be triggered to favor the pedestrian at the push of a button. There are trees everywhere as well. The thing that makes walking the least desirable is the starlings in the trees in Bricktown, but at least it's a bit of nature in the city. I walk my dogs in and around Deep Deuce and Bricktown on a daily basis (If you see someone walking two corgis, stop and say "hi" because that would be me). We linger in our two little pocket parks, but enjoy a brisk stroll between points as well. They especially like walking to Starbucks for the "puppaccino". We take the sneaky back route through the park on 2nd and down the hill, and walk the Walnut Bridge on the way back.

As far as density goes, that's a rather chicken and egg sort of thing. If you and others won't move downtown because of lack of density, how does it become more dense?

[Doug Loudenback]

#1: Do you already live downtown: No.

#2: If you don't, why not? I live in Mesta Park in my wife's and my home, which might be described as a 2-story bungalow, I suppose (but I've never been comfortable with thinking that I "know" what a bungalow is, exactly). It's got about 2000 sq. feet which is just right for our needs. I love the numerous trees of all shapes, sizes, and colors and that each home whether elegant or modest is unlike the rest and that both are blended together. I like that it is part of a fairly large area in which all of the above and below are equally applicable. It's a very special and unique part of the city. Our home was built in 1910 and I very much value its connectivity with Oklahoma City's past. I like being just a skip to Midtown, Downtown, Bricktown. I love seeing the tree branches covered and bending with snow when we are fortunate enough to have nice snowfalls in the winter. Even when ice storms hit the city, there is great beauty in looking closely at the ice which shrouds each bush and tree limb and twig in a dazzling display of winter. I very much enjoy sitting on my front porch in the mornings or afternoons when temperatures merit it, having a smoke, and reading the newspaper in the morning and having a toddy in the afternoon when reviewing the day with my wife. I like seeing nearby neighbors walk their always interesting dogs of all shapes and sizes along the sidewalks at either time of day. To be sure, I love the fact that the home is paid for.

[CaptDave]

#1 - No, I am one of those evil Edmond dwellers.

#2 - Several reasons foremost being the schools in Edmond. I decided to move there to get the bes public education possible for my kids.

But if not for that... I actually went to look at the housing available in Deep Deuce today. I think the area will be very nice - BUT - the developers are insane if they think they are going to sell a large number of residences at the price they are currently asking. Seriously - I found a 2BR, 2 Bath condo overlooking Lake Michigan at the very northern end of Lincoln Park in Chicago for $200000!!! $380000 - $500000 for a nice place in a very early stages of redevelopment OKC??? Something does not make sense here....

[semisimple]

If you and others won't move downtown because of lack of density, how does it become more dense?

Lower prices.

[kevinpate]

Do not live downtown, nor in OKC.

As to why, I prefer Norman.

[dismayed]

1. no
2. Because i go to OU.

My older brother however is a law student at OCU, and lives in some condos on NW 15th and Robinson. I forgot what they are called, but they are right next to heritage hills and he loves the area. We are from NW okc in the PC school district, and he loves the lifestyle down there. He tells me that he had no idea there was an area in OKC like that (He went to baylor for his bachelors, so coming back home he wanted a change).

Sounds like The Aberdeen. Really great place.

[dismayed]

This confuses me a bit. What would make Bricktown, Deep Deuce and points in between more walkable?

You know it's been a while since I really checked into the walk, but long ago when I was considering renting at Deep Deuce and then more recently when I looked into some of the new condos north of Bricktown it seemed like the condos had walkable paths, and Bricktown has sidewalks, but there was not anything in place to get you from the condos down into Bricktown without walking across streets, or bridges, or vacant/under construction lots in a somewhat wacky way.

As far as density goes, that's a rather chicken and egg sort of thing. If you and others won't move downtown because of lack of density, how does it become more dense?

That is true, but the correct way to solve that is for people like me to continue holding out until Bricktown developers drop their prices to realistic levels. Then we will move there and then they can raise their prices as population and density increases. As it is I do not believe the property down there is priced anywhere near the equilibrium point.

I really feel like the developers down there are pricing like they are in the suburbs, where sometimes you can charge an arm and a leg for the newest properties that are the farthest away from town and the most under-developed. Sorry but it doesn't work that way in urban areas.

[betts]

I can only speak for what I think are construction costs at the Maywood Brownstones, because I saw mine built from the studs. I suspect build-block construction is very expensive, with all that concrete and rebar. Then, there are slate roofs, solid brick and cast stone veneer, copper guttering, wood floors throughout, granite countertops even in the laundry room. The HVAC person who worked on a problem with my geothermal system told me the builders had installed the cadillac of systems, and the sound system certainly is as well. I actually think the prices there were quite "realistic" when I bought over 2 years ago. If the prices at the Hill are still comparable to the Brownstones, then I think they're overpriced, because they're stick-built and I don't think the interior finishes are that nice. The Maywood Lofts have underground parking, which I suspect was expensive to build, but again, I have no idea what costs for those types of developments would be. I've only been in one of the Block 42 townhouses, but it was very nice. Again, sometimes you get what you pay for, and I don't know if we've got any data suggesting developers downtown are inflating prices way above their costs. Several builders here have commented that it's more expensive to build in these locations. If you all hold out until the current developers have to sell at fire sale prices, it's going to do the opposite of encouraging new development, as all builders will stay the heck away from the area. Or, we'll get shoddy construction at prices people are willing to pay, and in 5 to 10 years it will all look like crap and where will your investment be? Again, it would take someone other than me to tell you for certain prices aren't inflated way above costs on all these developments, because I just don't know.

As far as walking goes, again, the Walnut bridge has great sidewalks with steps on both sides and it's the best access into Bricktown. I'm not sure how else you would get down a hill besides a stepped walkway. It's easily accessed by Deep Deuce and the Triangle. If you want to go to the CBD you simply walk under the bridges on 2nd, 3rd or 4th and while there aren't sidewalks on the east side of E.K. Gaylord, and that should be remedied, there are on the west. We do take the little hill behind the park on 2nd street down into Bricktown, and while it doesn't have stairs, we're told that when the ALoft Apartments are built, they will be putting stairs in. Personally, since I moved here from Colorado, I scoff at walking down a little hill like that. There's also access into Bricktown adjacent to the Wedge, although it's a bit cross country too. But, all of Deep Deuce and the Triangle have sidewalks on both sides of the street, as does all of Bricktown, and I consider it extremely walkable. As I've said, most of the people in my neighborhood walk into Bricktown and the CBD with great regularity.