Wambo, from all of the proof you have/have been provided, it's apparent you can't handle the truth.Originally Posted by Wambo36
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
Wambo, from all of the proof you have/have been provided, it's apparent you can't handle the truth.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
RC
In both responsed to BArnold I feel you are misspoken.
It is not that staffing is adequate, it simply isn't. What it means is that as stations are increasingly taxed for time, they have significantly less time to train in safety measures, tactics and hands on skills that could save a life be it fireman or citizen.
We have a long list of monthly schools to accomplish every month, as well as skills maintenance and custom training as prescribed by the station officers to address target hazards for a particular area.
This is serious stuff, stuff that legitimately means life and death. I do not intend to be dramatic, but if you deny it your just being blatanly obdurate.
If you look at corners that have to be cut currently and will have to be cut in the future to keep up with this increasing call volume I think that perhaps you would feel differently and perhaps you would recant.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
Be specific, you're talking in circles now. You haven't answered a straight question yet. I'm tired of asking them and watching you flail around hurling barely legible gibberish and then acting like you've accomplished the task. Try answering one of the questions asked of you or continue to flail around, either way is up to you. I know where my money is.
VIP Member
Re: 6 months later.
Barnold - name one person on this site that you guys have turned into a supporter of your cause. Just one person. And then sit back and ask yourselves - honestly - how many people have you turned off?
You guys work hard. I know this. You guys do a lot of good in this community. But you're doing damage to yourselves, at least online, by continuing with the approach you've been using.
Go ahead, accuse me of being in bed with city hall or brainwashed by the city manager. I can almost assure you the suggestion I'm making to you - to get a good communicator to tell your story - is probably an idea that city staff would prefer you ignore. I'm sure they're quite happy with things going as they have. Not all criticism is an attack. Instead of hitting the keyboard and firing off a response, stop, sit back and think. You spent years perfecting your skills, building strength, learning the latest tactics to save lives. Did any of that training involve communicating with the public? Of course not. The suggestion that you're bad at communication is not an insult any more than I'd be insulted if someone told me I suck at fighting fires. Fighting fires is not something I know how to do.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
Just as a frame of reference: if it were learned that men and women in a warzone were feeling an increased burden to maintain security of an area as well as man patrols and all the while the environment was becoming increasingly hostile and dangerous despite the hard work of the fighting men and women, recruitment (up to and including a draft perhaps) would likewise increase.
Please do not think that I equate the job I do with the Job of a soldier, but a person who is willing to risk their lives for you and yours might deserve similar consideration. That is perhaps where my parallel to the military ends, but in an domestic emergency it is PS that are given this charge.
You may not choose to view it this way, but I think that it would be wise to keep security issues well staffed - always.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
Wow, I wonder what the chances are that between you and I we know all these guys and yet we don't know any of the same ones. I couldn't care less of your opinion of my statements. What I know is that between the guys I grew up with who work there and having a room mate who worked there and all the guys I know from working together in statewide FF activities who also work there, not to mention the guys whose kids play sports with mine and the guys whom I see at church, none of them seem to support your position. Granted that's not all of them but in the last 25 years or so I've known alot of them. It just puts your view in perspective is all.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
RC,
It's the perfect example. Besides increased response times, increased injuries to personnel which costs the city more money, and god forbid loss of life of okc citizens; how long do you think the finger in the dike will work before the dam explodes?
Steve- I know you're not in bed with city in anyway or fashion. However, my friends that are still employed by the DOK tell of a different story with the company and the attitudes in which their (not implying yours) journalism is expressed. That is their right and free speech is a good thing.
I'm not looking to Win over anyone here. Most here are not the majority of blue collar workers that make up OKC; especially it's voting population. As to the communication aspect, that is part of my job and life everyday. I get the opportunity to express about something that I'm passionate about. In fact I get to do this quite often all over the state and country. If you would remember meeting me, my communication skills would be the last thing you would worry about. Spelling on the other hand is at times a challenge. Thank god for spellcheck.
You can have the greatest Orator in the world working for you, but if his message is only a edited clip on tv or two lines in a paper, you never know the entire story line.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
Steve
To be really honest I rarely respond to your posts because I think probably, I am outclassed. You have a very sound knowledge of all things city and though I will only subscribe to the Daily in the off chance that I get a parakeet, I think your arguments are sound, but not necessarily right.
We do not need to convert OKC talk participants. As I read it, it is most often a different lot that post on here as opposed to those who might value our services. Our standing in the communities we serve are intact and arguing amongst what appear to be a bunch of lawyers and doctors and somewhat selfimportant beings (including myself maybe) won't change a thing.
I don't think that my impression of you even verbally addressed here will influence your reporting and if it does, that's something a news man would have to reconsile for himself. It just seems odd to me that when standing in the line to buy groceries on duty with money contributed from our own wallets or while in the front yard of a person to whom we delivered a free smoke detector there is nothing but praise and support for the exemplary and totally mortal efforts we put forth, and the cause for which we fight. Get on a forum with people who are too cool for school and watch em get their dander up.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
Steve
To be really honest I rarely respond to your posts because I think probably, I am outclassed. You have a very sound knowledge of all things city and though I will only subscribe to the Daily in the off chance that I get a parakeet, I think your arguments are sound, but not necessarily right.
We do not need to convert OKC talk participants. As I read it, it is most often a different lot that post on here as opposed to those who might value our services. Our standing in the communities we serve are intact and arguing amongst what appear to be a bunch of lawyers and doctors and somewhat selfimportant beings (including myself maybe) won't change a thing.
I don't think that my impression of you even verbally addressed here will influence your reporting and if it does, that's something a news man would have to reconsile for himself. It just seems odd to me that when standing in the line to buy groceries on duty with money contributed from our own wallets or while in the front yard of a person to whom we delivered a free smoke detector there is nothing but praise and support for the exemplary and totally mortal efforts we put forth, and the cause for which we fight. Get on a forum with people who are too cool for school and watch em get their dander up.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
Just a bit of a random guess on my part, but one would suspect the tone of conversation of a PS worker who is standing in the grocery line or the front yard is likewise far lower on the dander scale than that which is often exhibited here when someone does not heavily concur with the position presented by a PS member.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
Sometimes if not spoken loudly, you all would never hear what we have to say.
Listen or not its not my game. If one hears, then thats victory enough for me even if it is just in resonance that the words penetrate increasingly thick skulls.
Please do not think for one second that we do not hear as well.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
KP, they needn't concur with the position, just disagree without the name calling and the rhetoric. I know most of the PS workers here and if you want to have a civil discussion face to face, you could be there all day. If you want to start the name calling, the best you could hope for is they'll get up and walk away, although that's not the way most of us are wired.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
Can agree with that, in both directions.
It's sometimes difficult to return to a thread because there's a lot of sparring to slog past to get to something that is not a rehash.
I don't know the optimal personnel balance points, and don't pretend to.
As I've noted in past, my primary interests rest with having friends who live/work in areas serviced through OKC PS departments along with being an infrequent visitor to the community. My interest was higher in the past, but work had me in South OKC then, with my time split rather evenly between OKC and Norman then.
Thus my interest runs more toward PS being properly equipped. I don't advocate the latest and greatest from the gee whiz section suppliers offer. But yeah, the notion of shutting down a truck purchase to upgrade cox dinna set well. While that was corrected, other equipment shortages have been noted amongst all the back and forth.
FWIW, to have boat cruises over bus routes or an adequate number of fully functional ladder trucks (whatever number = adequate) does not make sense to me.
Conversely, if fewer people are handling 40-50% higher annual callouts without major incidents, while dealing with equipment shortages, that raises questions of its own. Of course, perhaps it's all a matter of pure blind luck blankets wrapped around deep skill sets, and those blankets are getting a touch thread bare.
I'm not trying to call one side dead bang on over the other. But as an outsider looking on, as often as not, neither extreme presents a strongly persuasive argument.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
BomberMWC, OH you got me with that Boomtown, took me a while to recover! Why don't you in the interest of fairness tell me your profession. That degree obviously empowers you to pass judgement on my profession, so I was just curious about what it was in. Oh, by the way I have one too!
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
No, he was saying that the other municipalities who are going through the same recession we are are either staying put or increasing, not cutting. He never once said anything about wanting an increase in pay.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
I very easily could may have missed it, but exactly what proof have you provided? The instances I recall have been along the lines of you saying "that is 100% false" and then throwing out some stat that you didn't offer any support for. When asked for it, no response. When presented with the actual, factual numbers from the City's own budget reports (with links to the reports and page numbers etc), again, silence on your end.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
They don't really want the truth, it doesn't fit their "conspiracy theory".
What it really comes down to is basic, third great math, no matter where your dollars come from (general fund, special use tax, dedicated sales tax) if your revenue is less then your expenses, cuts must be made.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
You answered a question that wasn’t asked (they aren’t interested in the truth). What proof have you provided?
As far as the “basic, third great math” I have another question for you (or anyone)...
If the City doesn’t have the money (they obviously don’t considering the cutbacks etc) then where are they getting the extra “$5.2 million payment is due July 1” for the Sardis Lake water?
How about the $27 million the state owes (that the City is paying)?
Or the $42 million they have offered to pay (on a $25M debt)?
Oklahoma Water Resources Board approves Sardis Lake deal for Oklahoma City | NewsOK.com
Where is all of that money coming from if the City doesn’t have it? If it is hidden in some previous bond project, then the actual cost is double or triple the stated amounts (after paying the money back with interest).
Not sure if it is 3rd Grade math, but someone please help me with it....
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
It's obvious that you don't understand City finance or the budget process as well, when I have more time, I'll pull the info I have and from this proposed budget that explains said expenditure's.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
If it is as simple as you say it is, shouldn't be difficult. I am anxiously awaiting your info.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
Third great math, notice how he glossed over that one!
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
No glossing, just assumed tht if you don't understand 3rd grade math, why bother trying to explain the intricate workings of a complicated budget system/process.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
Welcome to the workforce of the 21st Century. That is the motto of everyone, everywhere. I'm afraid I have no sympathy.
I know this is hard for some folks in this state to hear, but when that becomes the situation and it is immovable, it is time to start thinking about changing the way things are done instead of doing the same things that have been done for the last 100 years. The fact is it is pretty clear to me you are not going to win this argument in this city. That being the case, shouting from the rooftops, or in this case an anonymous message board, isn't going to do the job. I think city public services need to step back and rethink a few things.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
Dismayed, we are funded by the taxpayers, the more taxpayers the more funding. Simple as that. What is not simple is that a federal agency, the NFPA decides how much fire protection is needed. They also set standards on the amount of manpower needed in certain situations. We only live by what they decide. Our problem is our city leadership choosing to disregard those requirements.
Junkie you mispelled another word in your reply. But, of course, since you were in management you did not.
Participating Member
Re: 6 months later.
Even though you stink in basic math, I'll give you an A plus in spelling. I would rather know the in's and outs of a complicated budget process then know how to spell it correctly, any day.
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