Is OKC Still Pursuing NBA/NHL Team

[Patrick]

You also have to look at pay....pay for all positions is less here, so we wouldn't be able to pay pro players as much as other cities. Sure cost of living is less here, but people don't always seem to look at that. I'm not sure we're quite ready yet for a pro team, although we should continue to look.

[swake]

I don't hate OKC, I don't know where you get that, there's a ton of little man complexes that show thier little heads on these boards, this one is worse than most, but not all.

Would I support a "state" team? Hm, probably not, I'm not a Dallas Cowboys fan and only slightly a Chiefs fan, I don't see why a team in OKC, no matter the sport, would be so different. I might attend a game every once in while. But for example I have not been to an OU game since college (I'm from Tulsa but went to KU), they are the "state's" team and I have no love for them or desire to see them play. I have been to the rare OSU game (my wife went there) but if we are just going to see a basketball or a football game just to go to a game, we go to TU. If it was an NBA or NHL team and they played 10-20 or so home games here, I might go.

[floater]

... there's a ton of little man complexes that show thier little heads on these boards, this one is worse than most, but not all.

Tulsans (and Texans, and just about any visitor who feels necessary to put down OKC) find it easy to be dismissive when they're insecure.

[swake]

Exactly how have I "put down" OKC? I discussed the difficulties in getting a major sport pro team, I did the same thing when rumours hit Tulsa about an NBA team, that turned out to be a NBDL team.

Neither city is getting team, we don't have the population or media market to get one, and unless a Gaylord, or one four or five families in Tulsa, want a team, we aren't getting one, either city. It's going to take a lot of growth that isn't happening now, or a Billionaire (or a nearly Billionaire) to get one. That your mayor wants one has little to do with it.

That you took what I posted as a "put down" only proves what I was talking about.

It's like rounding the OKC CMSA of 1,211,000 to 1.5 million, or calling Bricktown "the best entertainment district in America" it's badly untrue and just screams insecurity.

[floater]

No, there's nothing hick about this place, now is there?

Redneck love seats, you can't really be serious? I have to say it, between this, the fishing rod store, all the bad chain restaurants and the slimy little canal, Bricktown sucks. Period.

Time for the more progressive people in your city to move on, you need to seed another downtown district, this one is a complete waste.

Is anyone under the impression that this place is a bad idea?

I mean come on, OKC needs an urban hip downtown, Bass Pro and Toby Keith are not that.

I hear you are finally getting a wine bar downtown and the Skyy place is doing well, those are what you want, not a "road house".

Wah, Tulsa's not being nice, they think they're better.

Come on, grow up, I said OKC was more hick than two small cities that are very white collar and not very diverse. I never mentioned Tulsa at all. My point was that "hickness" and size are not directly related.

What are you all so defensive about?

They know their town SUCKS

There are lots of upscale Tulsa nightclubs, really more than in OKC. But, by the cheesy rip-off name of Skky, my guess is it’s going to be owned by Steve Kitchel, who owns a bunch of big clubs in downtown Tulsa, and if it is him, yes, it will be crap. He Owns 54 Downtown, The Majestic (the best of his bunch, but a gay club), Bad Girlz(a rip off of Coyote Ugly) and the 1st St Alley/Voodoo/Velvet Room mega bar. You can be sure if it’s Kitchel involved it will be white trash heaven with lots of fights.

Are those the same new meters that Tulsa got about six months ago?

What are you talking about I live in this crap town called OKC I wish I was In_Tulsa

I have to concede that it does come from both sides. There have been OKC needlers in TulsaNow, so it's not one-sided. But you can read the tone in some posts that there is some condescension. "Oh, you're finally getting *****. Good for you!!"

[BDP]

I don't hate OKC, I don't know where you get that, there's a ton of little man complexes that show thier little heads on these boards, this one is worse than most, but not all.

Oh, come one, Swake, I was just teasing. For the record, Swake is generally civil and rational. It was probably unfair of me to single you out and not make it clear I was being a bit facetious. The question is really for all Tulsans and whether they could hang out with the "little men" in OKC to go to a major league game. Basically, would a state team located in OKC still feel like a home team to Tulsans?

BDP would come to Tulsa if we got the team?

If it was a sport I liked, I’d probably go a lot. I got nothing against Tulsa and I usually have fun when I go. I think the pissiness that comes across in the whole Tulsa/OKC thing is retarded. But I know there is a lot of contempt in Tulsa for OKC. I know several who live and work in Tulsa and have family there, and it’s pretty much common knowledge. I was just wondering if that contempt would prevent anyone from coming to OKC for game. That is, to root for the team.

In the end I do think an OK team will have to draw well in tickets and TV from both markets in order to be a success.

[swake]

You are mixing my quotes with those of someone else, there is no bashing in my quotes that you placed here.

For example, you iner that I was bashing and looking down at OKC due to parking meters, are you really serious?? The new meters are a cool idea, but in the larger scheme of things, who gives a rats ass, I insulted your parking meters? Good god, grow up.

[floater]

Tulsans (and Texans, and just about any visitor who feels necessary to put down OKC) find it easy to be dismissive when they're insecure.

The message is about Tulsans in general. I never said you specifically. To be literal, when I said "put down" I was referring to all Tulsans. Oh come on. Don't deny it. There is condescension from Tulsans and you know it.

As far as these forums are concerned, you know it goes both ways, across boards and within boards. We haven't helped ourselves by going on TulsaNow and acting like upstart brats, and indeed making some unqualified claims. That's just jive from a city that hasn't had much to celebrate about the past 20 years.

But enough is enough. We need to not only not bash each other, we need to be supporting each other. Oklahoma has too much to overcome for one to see the other's gains as a negative.

[thecains]

If i lived in Tulsa and OKC had a pro team i would go and support it......I live in OKC and i f Tulsa got a team iw ould support it as well.......

OKC is the larger city BUT, Tulsa has money..........Tulsa's metro poulation roughly 1,000,000. OKC has a population of roughly 1,250,000....I think it is very possible for Tulsa to get a team before OKC.....The factors-The states fastest growing cities are Tulsa suburbs, Vision2025 finally going to work, and In the Fayetteville, Bentonville and pretty much all of NW arkansas has about 1 milion or more people living there, if Tulsa landed a team it would draw from OKC, Tulsa, southwest MO, Southeast Kansas, some texans and a TON of Arkansas citizens as well. How can that make Tulsa get a team before OKC? Because in the portions of the states i listed have about 6 Million people living in them combined. PLEASE DONT CRITISIZE ME FOR SAYING THIS, I AM JUST TRYING TO HAVE A INTRESTING CONVERSATION WITH CITIZENS FROM BOTH CITIES.

[BDP]

We need to not only not bash each other, we need to be supporting each other. Oklahoma has too much to overcome for one to see another's gains as a negative.

No doubt. And, honestly, one who finds much difference between the two cities both doesn't know the two cities very well and hasn't been to very many places. There are differences, but when compared to most other places, the differences are petty. I know no two cities that are more alike.

[In_Tulsa]

Hey Swake you live in one fine city CONGRATULATION You are lucky

[swake]

Oh boy, now you are going to get it, you can't come here and say Tulsa should have something before OKC...........

And NW Ark is closer to half a million than a million, and you can't really think the growth rate there will stay long term. besides, that's almost the same distance from Tulsa as OKC, they are hardly a suburb of Tulsa to add to Tulsa's population numbers.

[thecains]

I didnt add Arkansas to Tulsa's population. And no swake arkansas is not a suburb of Tulsa.....But the closest major city to them is Tulsa..

[BDP]

Oh boy, now you are going to get it, you can't come here and say Tulsa should have something before OKC...........

Why not? He made some good points. There are some strengths that may be an advantage relative to OKC, but I don't think it puts Tulsa in the major leagues either. It's kind of a draw, imo, and currently a losing one for both cities.

[thecains]

thanks for backing me on that one BDP.

[HOT ROD]

I was not offended. I decided to bow out because I thought I was creating too much angst. Thank you for clarifying your position.

Hot Rod, does this shed any light on where I'm coming from and why?

Yep, thanks Scribe.

[HOT ROD]

The real question is, is there a market, except for Green Bay, that HAS a NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL team that is smaller than OKC? I can't think of one. And no rounding on the numbers, city size does not count in the real world, it's all metro area and media market.

Buffalo Bills
Sacramento (it might have gone up tho)
Jacksonville FL
Salt Lake City
Portland (same size as OKC)


These cities are smaller than OKC yet they have teams. And, Im not buying the tv market crap, as if you use the state of OK and surrounding areas for OKC's TV market (for a major league franchise), that is over 5 million!

Here in Seattle, our market is the whole state of WA, and Idaho, and Montana; and British Columbia. Seattle pipes its teams in every station (especially cable) in all of these states; giving Seattle the huge market that you all see in the rankings. Heck, for every sport other than NBA; Seattle also uses the state of Oregon for its market!!!

So if Seattle does that, and Buffalo does that, and Jacksonville - why cant OKC? Why does the NIMBYs on this forum think TV market (or market draw for that matter) is JUST the city proper!!! IT ISNT.

I know for a fact that Wichita people come to OKC much more than the other way around, ditto that for Tulsa - because there is more happening in OKC. That is called market draw; and that is my argument for OKC being a larger market than just its city and metro.

You guy's problem (and the people who do market demo) is that you keep separating out the state of OK from OKC's market draw. Denver uses CO and KS and NM and WY for its market, OKC can use OK, so KS, w AR, w TX for its market - 5 million people!!!

Why does OKC get the concerts it does, given all of the comments that have been said about its lack of pop? MARKET DRAW, and OKC has it!!!

[flyingcowz]

I know for a fact that Wichita people come to OKC much more than the other way around, ditto that for Tulsa - because there is more happening in OKC.

I don't know how true that is. I haven't been to OKC in quite a while, mainly because I have no desire to do so. There isn't much of anything in OKC, that I want to go to, that isn't in Tulsa.

Sorry.

[In_Tulsa]

I also can't think of anything that OKC has that Tulsa does not. I can think of stuff Tulsa has that OKC does not have.

[swake]

Buffalo Bills
Sacramento (it might have gone up tho)
Jacksonville FL
Salt Lake City
Portland (same size as OKC)


These cities are smaller than OKC yet they have teams. And, Im not buying the tv market crap, as if you use the state of OK and surrounding areas for OKC's TV market (for a major league franchise), that is over 5 million!

Here in Seattle, our market is the whole state of WA, and Idaho, and Montana; and British Columbia. Seattle pipes its teams in every station (especially cable) in all of these states; giving Seattle the huge market that you all see in the rankings. Heck, for every sport other than NBA; Seattle also uses the state of Oregon for its market!!!

So if Seattle does that, and Buffalo does that, and Jacksonville - why cant OKC? Why does the NIMBYs on this forum think TV market (or market draw for that matter) is JUST the city proper!!! IT ISNT.

I know for a fact that Wichita people come to OKC much more than the other way around, ditto that for Tulsa - because there is more happening in OKC. That is called market draw; and that is my argument for OKC being a larger market than just its city and metro.

You guy's problem (and the people who do market demo) is that you keep separating out the state of OK from OKC's market draw. Denver uses CO and KS and NM and WY for its market, OKC can use OK, so KS, w AR, w TX for its market - 5 million people!!!

Why does OKC get the concerts it does, given all of the comments that have been said about its lack of pop? MARKET DRAW, and OKC has it!!!

Wrong in every case, all these meto markets are larger than OKC, Portland and Sacramento approaching being as large as Tulsa and OKC COMBINED.

[swake]

Wait, I was wrong, metro Portland isn't aproaching being larger than OKC and Tulsa combined, it IS larger than Tulsa and OKC combined, by almost 10%

[Karried]

Admittedly, both Tulsa and OKC have a lot to offer and there are differences that draw people to both cities for different reasons.

Who really cares who has what, a professional team would compliment and enrich our state.

I've always thought that working together towards this is far better than squabbling over whose city is better than the other. We all have pride in our cities and that is to be expected.

If we stay focused on building up, not tearing down, the entire state can reap the benefits.

[PUGalicious]

I also can't think of anything that OKC has that Tulsa does not. I can think of stuff Tulsa has that OKC does not have.

I can think of stuff that Tulsa has that OKC doesn't have, like a mayor and city councilors who can't play nice with each other.

As far as what OKC has that Tulsa doesn't: the state capitol, Oklahoma State Fair, Bricktown, the canal, etc. etc.

[swake]

I can think of stuff that Tulsa has that OKC doesn't have, like a mayor and city councilors who can't play nice with each other.

As far as what OKC has that Tulsa doesn't: the state capitol, Oklahoma State Fair, Bricktown, the canal, etc. etc.

And what makes the Oklahoma State Fair so different from the Tulsa State Fair? You know, aside from being held in a run down mud pit and having fewer people attend? Oh, wait, the Oklahoma Fair has run down buildings for shows vs Tulsa's expo building. But, you know, at least they share the good qualities of a fair, drunken rednecks pushing strollers and funnel cakes.

Look, Bricktown is fine, there is a lot that OKC has done there that Tulsa can learn from, lately however I personally think a lot of mistakes are being made there. And look at the bulk of the older sections of OKC. They are badly run down and look awful, OKC for the most part is not an attractive city. You could learn a lot from Tulsa's midtown areas.

And as for the state capitol, you can keep that ugly kremlinesqe collection of buildings, by far the ugliest capital complex of any state I have ever seen. The dome helped, but only a little.

[PUGalicious]

Sounds like you believe Tulsa has more style than OKC. Perhaps that's true, but I'll take substance over style any day.

Having lived in both cities, it's been my perception that Tulsa looks down its nose at its bigger brother, but only because it thinks it's better. I can assure you that OKC spends much less time thinking about it's little brother.