Downtown Housing Summary

[GoGators]

We've way overbuilt downtown housing; now can we fill those units with some quality jobs professionals who will bring more people into the DT scene vs. trading suburban housing trading places for downtown units.

We have the capacity to attract more jobs like Heartland Payments but we can't in turn lose Sonic Drive In & 7 Eleven corporate jobs.

Does anyone know how Oklahoma's Quality Jobs program is doing in Oklahoma City with adding jobs or expansion of existing corporations/companies in our metro. Tulsa looms big with American Airlines maintenance center expansion if those jobs come to fruition.

American Fidelity Assurance of OKC has been list as 55 of 100 Best Fortune 100 best companies to work for in 2019: https://www.greatplacetowork.com/bes.../100-best/2019

Downtown housing is not even close to being overbuilt.
Trading suburban housing units for urban housing units Is a good thing.
A thriving Tulsa metro is a benefit for OKC and not a threat.

[SoonerDave]

this is simply not true at all ...... downtown housing is still underbuilt

Underbuilt by what standard? When I drive through downtown, all I see is swaths of unoccupied properties with "For Rent" signs up, and the people I've talked to with a LOT more knowledge/insight than I could remotely have into the downtown housing market right now said there's a lot more supply than demand - and that supply is *really* expensive, which is part of the problem.

[BoulderSooner]

Underbuilt by what standard? When I drive through downtown, all I see is swaths of unoccupied properties with "For Rent" signs up, and the people I've talked to with a LOT more knowledge/insight than I could remotely have into the downtown housing market right now said there's a lot more supply than demand - and that supply is *really* expensive, which is part of the problem.

% of okc population

[Pete]

Occupancy rates in downtown are very high, which is why you continue to see more housing proposals.

A couple of years ago, we added a couple of thousand units in a short period of time and they have all been absorbed.

Here are some projects in the queue:

First National
Steelyard Phase II
Level East
700 West
Boulevard Place
4th & EK Gaylord
Row on Twelve
Classen 16
The Bower
Villa Teresa
The Sentinel
Farmer's Market
Strawberry Fields

[Plutonic Panda]

Pete, is 700 west still moving forward?

[Pete]

Pete, is 700 west still moving forward?

Yes, I just spoke to Ron Bradshaw a couple of weeks ago.

They should start later this year.

[shawnw]

I thought Steelyard II wasn't looking good? Or is it just delayed?

[Pete]

I thought Steelyard II wasn't looking good? Or is it just delayed?

Delayed a bit but still planned.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yes, I just spoke to Ron Bradshaw a couple of weeks ago.

They should start later this year.

thank you for the information. I’m glad it is still a go.

[Pete]

I believe 700 West will actually be more ambitious than the plans we last saw, including structured parking.

[Laramie]

Thanks for the correction, Pete. Every time I'm in the core it seems that every codo, apartment or dwelling has a vacancy sign.

So, do you think we'll see some mid rise or high rises in the core or on the riverfront.

[Pete]

I've heard there will be mid-rise residential on the old Goodwill site, at Reno and OKC Blvd.

But I don't know what that means in terms of levels.

[GoGators]

Underbuilt by what standard? When I drive through downtown, all I see is swaths of unoccupied properties with "For Rent" signs up, and the people I've talked to with a LOT more knowledge/insight than I could remotely have into the downtown housing market right now said there's a lot more supply than demand - and that supply is *really* expensive, which is part of the problem.

This doesn't make sense. If there was a supply glut, the supply price would reflect that.

[Pete]

Of course there are 'for rent' signs up downtown. We now have tons more properties and no matter how high the occupancy rate, there are always people moving out.


Where on earth do you find a huge concentration of apartments and not see 'for rent' signs? I would see them everywhere in Santa Monica which is one of the most notoriously tight housing markets anywhere.


And BTW, NEW construction and remodels are expensive. There are still tons of older properties that are reasonable.

At some point people here are going to finally come to grips with the fact that new construction downtown is always going to be pricey no matter how you do it. But there are also older units all around The Paseo and elsewhere which are plenty reasonable. Why is it such a hard concept to fathom that new, nice things cost more money??


I've made this point several times: When I first moved back I lived in a beautifully renovated apartment in SoSA. I then bought a completely renovated 3 bed, 2 bath house with an attached garage, on 1/3rd an acre backing to park near 50 Penn -- and my payment is well less than my previous rent. I can't walk out my front door to hundreds of places like before, but I am literally a 7-minute drive from anywhere I want to go. And I'll be able to walk to The Oak, hopefully soon.

There are a ridiculous amount of good housing options for almost silly prices very close to the core. If you want to live within walking distance of the billions in investment, then you are going to have to pay. And plenty of people seem to be willing to do that.

At the same time, there are almost unlimited affordable options very close in. I simply can't believe people gripe about housing costs, as if they are somehow owed a cheap, new place with fantastic finishes and amenities within easy walking distance of everything downtown. That is never, ever, ever going to happen. You could have done that 10 years ago but that ship has sailed and if you feel you missed out, that's your own fault.

[dcsooner]

Of course there are 'for rent' signs up downtown. We now have tons more properties and no matter how high the occupancy rate, there are always people moving out.


Where on earth do you find a huge concentration of apartments and not see 'for rent' signs? I would see them everywhere in Santa Monica which is one of the most notoriously tight housing markets anywhere.


And BTW, NEW construction and remodels are expensive. There are still tons of older properties that are reasonable.

At some point people here are going to finally come to grips with the fact that new construction downtown is always going to be pricey no matter how you do it. But there are also older units all around The Paseo and elsewhere which are plenty reasonable. Why is it such a hard concept to fathom that new, nice things cost more money??


I've made this point several times: When I first moved back I lived in a beautifully renovated apartment in SoSA. I then bought a completely renovated 3 bed, 2 bath house with an attached garage, on 1/3rd an acre backing to park near 50 Penn -- and my payment is well less than my previous rent. I can't walk out my front door to hundreds of places like before, but I am literally a 7-minute drive from anywhere I want to go. And I'll be able to walk to The Oak, hopefully soon.

There are a ridiculous amount of good housing options for almost silly prices very close to the core. If you want to live within walking distance of the billions in investment, then you are going to have to pay. And plenty of people seem to be willing to do that.

At the same time, there are almost unlimited affordable options very close in. I simply can't believe people gripe about housing costs, as if they are somehow owed a cheap, new place with fantastic finishes and amenities within easy walking distance of everything downtown. That is never, ever, ever going to happen. You could have done that 10 years ago but that ship has sailed and if you feel you missed out, that's your own fault.

+2000

[Plutonic Panda]

Almost every building in Hollywood has a for rent sign in front.

[Teo9969]

Of course there are 'for rent' signs up downtown. We now have tons more properties and no matter how high the occupancy rate, there are always people moving out.


Where on earth do you find a huge concentration of apartments and not see 'for rent' signs? I would see them everywhere in Santa Monica which is one of the most notoriously tight housing markets anywhere.


And BTW, NEW construction and remodels are expensive. There are still tons of older properties that are reasonable.

At some point people here are going to finally come to grips with the fact that new construction downtown is always going to be pricey no matter how you do it. But there are also older units all around The Paseo and elsewhere which are plenty reasonable. Why is it such a hard concept to fathom that new, nice things cost more money??


I've made this point several times: When I first moved back I lived in a beautifully renovated apartment in SoSA. I then bought a completely renovated 3 bed, 2 bath house with an attached garage, on 1/3rd an acre backing to park near 50 Penn -- and my payment is well less than my previous rent. I can't walk out my front door to hundreds of places like before, but I am literally a 7-minute drive from anywhere I want to go. And I'll be able to walk to The Oak, hopefully soon.

There are a ridiculous amount of good housing options for almost silly prices very close to the core. If you want to live within walking distance of the billions in investment, then you are going to have to pay. And plenty of people seem to be willing to do that.

At the same time, there are almost unlimited affordable options very close in. I simply can't believe people gripe about housing costs, as if they are somehow owed a cheap, new place with fantastic finishes and amenities within easy walking distance of everything downtown. That is never, ever, ever going to happen. You could have done that 10 years ago but that ship has sailed and if you feel you missed out, that's your own fault.

Yeah...having bought 10 years ago, it is insane to see myself get "priced out" of my neighborhood. I mean, sure, I could still afford to buy a home in the area, but it would certainly come at a premium and have plenty of work needed to be done to it.

Difference is, I'm just shocked it all happened so quickly. I was thinking, especially after the 2014 oil crash, that we were looking for the prices we see today to be occurring 2025+. Hindsight has me kicking myself for not finding a way to buy ever freaking lot that I could in my neighborhood.

[Pete]

^

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I just had my house appraised and the value went up about 30% in just 2 years.

[Pete]

Tsoodle: Report on downtown housing shows positive trends
By: Kenton Tsoodle Guest Column June 7, 2022

The Alliance for Economic Development of Oklahoma City commissioned a downtown housing study by Economic & Planning Systems Inc. to identify trends and conditions in downtown housing and how Oklahoma City can continue to develop the types of downtown housing that will best support our residents’ needs and encourage further economic development.

Housing demand in Oklahoma City has been driven by a resilient economy, anchored by strong population, employment, and income growth. Between 2010 and 2020, Oklahoma City added 100,000 residents and 92,000 jobs, while median household income increased. These factors contributed to a strong housing market across all areas of the city.

The study shows that downtown Oklahoma City has experienced a significant amount of housing development activity over the past decade, most of which have been apartments. There is a total of approximately 5,020 housing units downtown, with 2,820 new housing units added between 2010 and 2021. Midtown leads with 28% of the total, followed by Deep Deuce, the Arts District, Automobile Alley, the Innovation District and Bricktown.

Many of these housing projects have needed public support to be feasible, and tax increment financing has shown to be the most effective tool for incentivizing multifamily housing at desired density levels. West Village, The Steel Yard and Metropolitan Apartments have built four- and five-story apartments with structured parking that have achieved urban level densities of 60 to 80 units per acre. However, with rents still averaging below $2 per square foot, these projects were feasible only with the use of incentives to address a financing gap. This is also true of the peer cities that were reviewed in the study. Nashville, Kansas City, Fort Worth and Omaha, all with growing downtown housing fueled by younger knowledge-based workers and a strong economy, also have used TIF to incentivize urban density housing projects.

The tipping point is coming for Oklahoma City. While incentives are still necessary to facilitate the development of high-quality housing, demand will continue to grow over the next decade, our economy will continue to thrive and the market will adjust where these subsidies are not required. Our investment in MAPS has transformed downtown’s vitality: downtown streetscape and arts, Core to Shore, Oklahoma City Boulevard, Scissortail Park and the Oklahoma City Streetcar all have made downtown living a viable and highly desired lifestyle.

Kenton Tsoodle is the president of The Alliance for Economic Development of Oklahoma City.

[Pete]

I took a stab at updating the extensive summary in the first post of this thread.

I'm sure I've missed some, but wanted to add several big projects that are now proposed or under construction.

We are closing in on 10,000 housing units in the core.

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.p...906#post524906

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^^
And honestly just starting, from an urban recovery and infill standpoint.

Imagine downtown with an additional 90K. Numbers like that would ensure things like grocery stores, chain drugstores, high-quality and diverse retail choices, more amenities, more activities, even more great urban core restaurants, more stability and financial security for existing operators.

It would draw even more people and more residential density to inner-ring suburbs, improving retail prospects, capturing more sales tax generation and property tax revenue in central OKC. It wouldn’t just encourage better transit, it would DEMAND it.

Could take fifty years, but could also happen in ten, if we played our cards right. And, of course, might not happen ever.

[aDark]

^^^^^^^^^
And honestly just starting, from an urban recovery and infill standpoint.

Imagine downtown with an additional 90K. Numbers like that would ensure things like grocery stores, chain drugstores, high-quality and diverse retail choices, more amenities, more activities, even more great urban core restaurants, more stability and financial security for existing operators.

It would draw even more people and more residential density to inner-ring suburbs, improving retail prospects, capturing more sales tax generation and property tax revenue in central OKC. It wouldn’t just encourage better transit, it would DEMAND it.

Could take fifty years, but could also happen in ten, if we played our cards right. And, of course, might not happen ever.

10x growth in 10 years? No way. It took 6.5 years to grow by 1,800. We should be aiming for 10k by 2030 and 20k by 2040. I think that's more realistic.