2024 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[shai2022]

AA announced restart of Omaha and Des Moines daily flights to Philly today. No OKC unfortunately.

[bison34]

Lol, it's comical at this point. Waiting for Alaska to cancel the Seattle flight any day now.

Really dampers the hopes of a true international flight anytime soon.

[Jeepnokc]

nm

[Jeepnokc]

nm

[PhiAlpha]

Lol, it's comical at this point. Waiting for Alaska to cancel the Seattle flight any day now.

Really dampers the hopes of a true international flight anytime soon.

yep. The airport director should just get it over with and shut it the whole thing down.

[PistolChad]

Looks like starting Sept 3 - May 4, the MIA route on AA goes to Saturday only. Then it goes back to daily in May.

And AA is actively rerouting people through different hubs if Miami isn't your final destination. I booked a flight to the Caribbean for January and it was cheaper to fly through Miami than any other hub, but the day after I booked it AA changed my flight to go through Charlotte instead. I checked again and going through Miami was still cheaper than Charlotte, but they evidently wanted to route me through Charlotte anyway.

I think most of you who seem to feel that OKC is constantly being mistreated by the airlines are not understanding what is going on in the industry. Almost all Airlines could make more money adding more flights and/or seats to OKC, but because Boeing and Airbus are consistently delivering new aircraft slower than when their customers want them, Airlines are having to make tough choices. They are having to pull aircraft from profitable routes to put them in places that are even MORE profitable. They don't WANT to cede any market share to any competitor - but right now they are FORCED to because of other market forces. Even if Boeing and Airbus COULD deliver enough aircraft, most airlines still cannot hire nor train pilots fast enough either.

During COVID many airlines made really poor choices that resulted in many pilots retiring much earlier than what is normal. Several airlines retired much more airplanes faster than they should have. Now they are short on planes and pilots (United has more of a pilot shortage than plane shortage while American has more of a plane shortage than pilot shortage) and it will take probably a decade before the industry is back to a good place for the consumer.

[VeggieMeat]

They definitely aren't short on pilots. Most have stopped or significantly slowed hiring. Spirit is furloughing pilots and requesting further aircraft delivery delays.

[bison34]

And AA is actively rerouting people through different hubs if Miami isn't your final destination. I booked a flight to the Caribbean for January and it was cheaper to fly through Miami than any other hub, but the day after I booked it AA changed my flight to go through Charlotte instead. I checked again and going through Miami was still cheaper than Charlotte, but they evidently wanted to route me through Charlotte anyway.

I think most of you who seem to feel that OKC is constantly being mistreated by the airlines are not understanding what is going on in the industry. Almost all Airlines could make more money adding more flights and/or seats to OKC, but because Boeing and Airbus are consistently delivering new aircraft slower than when their customers want them, Airlines are having to make tough choices. They are having to pull aircraft from profitable routes to put them in places that are even MORE profitable. They don't WANT to cede any market share to any competitor - but right now they are FORCED to because of other market forces. Even if Boeing and Airbus COULD deliver enough aircraft, most airlines still cannot hire nor train pilots fast enough either.

During COVID many airlines made really poor choices that resulted in many pilots retiring much earlier than what is normal. Several airlines retired much more airplanes faster than they should have. Now they are short on planes and pilots (United has more of a pilot shortage than plane shortage while American has more of a plane shortage than pilot shortage) and it will take probably a decade before the industry is back to a good place for the consumer.

Or they feel OKC is not a high-dollar market (which it's not) and people here can't afford those trips (they can't). But I don't get why Des Moines and Omaha has the same, if not better, route trees than OKC.

[HOT ROD]

that's my question. How can much smaller markets have better connectivity than OKC. I do get that OMA is the ONLY airport in NE but DSM is not too far away yet also has good connectivity compared to OKC.

Is it truly that those markets are not close to a mega-hub? How would that explain MKE? Milwaukee is just a tad bigger than OKC but closer to ORD (than OKC is to DFW); Is Chicagoland really propping them up domestically? Incentives?

It's an interesting question that the airport officials should truly investigate IMO.

[damonsmuz]

MKE is seeing about 2 million more passengers a year than OKC. Omaha is seeing about half a million more passengers than OKC each year.

[Celebrator]

MKE is seeing about 2 million more passengers a year than OKC. Omaha is seeing about half a million more passengers than OKC each year.

And that's all the data you need to know to get your answer. The pax numbers will drive increased service.

[Anonymous.]

It's a crappy conundrum here in OKC. Because the Dallas drive is so easy, we get less airport passengers. And of course the main reason people drive to Dallas, is because we don't have as affordable and the number of destinations.

And of course now I-35 is getting widened.

[stlokc]

Completely anecdotal but I feel like OKC has marginally fewer leisure travelers than our size would imply because there is less disposable income. And marginally fewer business travelers. Omaha has 5 or 6 Fortune 500 companies.

[stlokc]

Correction to my previous post:
OKC has 2 Fortune 500 companies and 3 total in the Fortune 1000
Omaha has 4 Fortune 500 companies and 7 total in the Fortune 1000

[bison34]

Correction to my previous post:
OKC has 2 Fortune 500 companies and 3 total in the Fortune 1000
Omaha has 4 Fortune 500 companies and 7 total in the Fortune 1000

3 in fortune 500, and at least 1 more in the fortune 1000, but yeah, Warren Buffett has lured a few there (being near him, as he is a major investor).

[Celebrator]

Completely anecdotal but I feel like OKC has marginally fewer leisure travelers than our size would imply because there is less disposable income. And marginally fewer business travelers. Omaha has 5 or 6 Fortune 500 companies.

Could be a reason. The median household income in Nebraska is about $9k more than Oklahoma, but we have double the statewide population. I think having a global air hub in DFW being relatively close really hurts OKC. OMA has none of that kind of competition!

[oktxatty]

Lol, it's comical at this point. Waiting for Alaska to cancel the Seattle flight any day now.

Really dampers the hopes of a true international flight anytime soon.

Once again, your lack of understanding of Airline Economics is on full display.

Alaska flies a single daily 178-seat 739 to SEA. The latest airport data show 5,099 boarding in June. That’s 170 pax per flight, or a 96% load factor. Every other airline at OKC would kill for a LF like that. The route is a cash cow.

[Jake]

Could be a reason. The median household income in Nebraska is about $9k more than Oklahoma, but we have double the statewide population. I think having a global air hub in DFW being relatively close really hurts OKC. OMA has none of that kind of competition!

Yes, it's important to realize that DFW isn't just some big, busy airport. It's literally one of the busiest airports on Earth and the largest airport hub in the world according to this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed...%20the%20world.

[stlokc]

Could be a reason. The median household income in Nebraska is about $9k more than Oklahoma, but we have double the statewide population. I think having a global air hub in DFW being relatively close really hurts OKC. OMA has none of that kind of competition!

True. And if you are comparing the state of Oklahoma to the state of Nebraska, you also have to throw in that the Tulsa catchment area is probably at least one third of the state's population.

[BG918]

Once again, your lack of understanding of Airline Economics is on full display.

Alaska flies a single daily 178-seat 739 to SEA. The latest airport data show 5,099 boarding in June. That’s 170 pax per flight, or a 96% load factor. Every other airline at OKC would kill for a LF like that. The route is a cash cow.

I'd be interested to know how many Alaska passengers from the Tulsa area drive to OKC for the SEA nonstop since there isn't one from TUL

[bison34]

Once again, your lack of understanding of Airline Economics is on full display.

Alaska flies a single daily 178-seat 739 to SEA. The latest airport data show 5,099 boarding in June. That’s 170 pax per flight, or a 96% load factor. Every other airline at OKC would kill for a LF like that. The route is a cash cow.

I guess sarcasm doesn't translate on here. I was joking. I know that is full, but it seems full flights don't always determine what routes stay. I flew to Detroit monthly, and those flights were always full. I mean ALWAYS full. There and back. I know, one person's experience, but it seems that was a flight that shouldn't have been termed. But what do I know.

[Richard at Remax]

Once again, your lack of understanding of Airline Economics is on full display.

Alaska flies a single daily 178-seat 739 to SEA. The latest airport data show 5,099 boarding in June. That’s 170 pax per flight, or a 96% load factor. Every other airline at OKC would kill for a LF like that. The route is a cash cow.

It's one of my favorite flights out of OKC. The left side of the plane going and coming back have some great views of Rainier. Hard to get upgraded on since all the boeing people seem to buy business class. First world problems lol

My only gripe is the return flight. It's usually at 8am or before leaving Seattle. I wish that would get pushed just a tad to 9am or 10am. The flight returning can still leave around the same time it does now. My only gripe.

[Jeepnokc]

It's one of my favorite flights out of OKC. The left side of the plane going and coming back have some great views of Rainier. Hard to get upgraded on since all the boeing people seem to buy business class. First world problems lol

My only gripe is the return flight. It's usually at 8am or before leaving Seattle. I wish that would get pushed just a tad to 9am or 10am. The flight returning can still leave around the same time it does now. My only gripe.

I used to get up every morning and see Mt Rainier out of my bedroom window and used to camp on Mt Rainier in scouting. Beautiful mountain, My dad was stationed at Fort Lewis. We lived there when Mt St Helen blew and my dad ran the maintenance operations down there. I remember the plume and the rattle.

[Celebrator]

I guess sarcasm doesn't translate on here. I was joking. I know that is full, but it seems full flights don't always determine what routes stay. I flew to Detroit monthly, and those flights were always full. I mean ALWAYS full. There and back. I know, one person's experience, but it seems that was a flight that shouldn't have been termed. But what do I know.

Some of that might have to do with how many pax were "O and D" to Detroit, meaning they just flew to Detroit and back instead of connecting at DTW both ways. If they didn't see a huge demand for those types of local traffic pax, then they can easily funnel those people to their other hubs that serve overlap routes out of DTW. MSP, for example, will serve many of the same destinations (even the tiny ones) as DTW as both of these Delta hubs are in the upper Midwest. And then they have multiple, mainline flights per day out of OKC to their huge fortress hub in ATL which also serves many of the same small markets in the east as DTW, hence the demise (hopefully only temporarily) of the DTW flight. Curious, did you connect at DTW or was your destination the Detroit area?

[bison34]

Some of that might have to do with how many pax were "O and D" to Detroit, meaning they just flew to Detroit and back instead of connecting at DTW both ways. If they didn't see a huge demand for those types of local traffic pax, then they can easily funnel those people to their other hubs that serve overlap routes out of DTW. MSP, for example, will serve many of the same destinations (even the tiny ones) as DTW as both of these Delta hubs are in the upper Midwest. And then they have multiple, mainline flights per day out of OKC to their huge fortress hub in ATL which also serves many of the same small markets in the east as DTW, hence the demise (hopefully only temporarily) of the DTW flight. Curious, did you connect at DTW or was your destination the Detroit area?

Flew to Grand Rapids for a client.