New Downtown Arena

[Pete]

Once again, I deleted a bunch of posts.

Next comes some temp bans.


NO MORE characterizing people who disagree with your stance with pejorative terms and bringing up an election settled in a landslide.

[Laramie]

I'm putting together a timeline on MAPS 3 & 4, when the new arena first was mentioned by Holt or anyone else directly involved, the deal with Prairie Surf, and several other key dates.

I do know for sure the City started their deal with Prairie Surf on 1/1/21. I also know Holt talked about the need for a new 'Big League' arena at his State of the City address in 2022 at the latest.

And one more time: Can we PLEASE stop the insanity about the ownership selling/planning/or threatening to sell?? If someone can provide a hard, reputable quote or real information that's one thing, but this talk just keeps getting repeated and it's taken on a life of its own, and as far as I can tell, absolutely no one has real insight on this matter. Things keep getting posted as facts when they are anything but, and in the meantime we are trying to have an informed, rational discussion.

Same thing for the project timeline, and other key points.

Looking forward to your Indepth reporting on this development and thanks again for all the insight associated with the previous MAPS projects and how it ties in with the city. I'm thrilled the city moved the coliseum ahead to address the inadequacies of the current State Fair Arena to keep those numerous horse shows and related events in OKC.

The Bennett Events Center will serve the exhibit needs of the new State Fair Coliseum as a catalyst much like a convention center at State Fair Park and the valuable horse industry that contributes to our city's economy.

[Urbanized]

MAPS and other capital campaigns historically have prioritized projects that will increase overall tax receipts once they open. That’s why fairgrounds projects have generally moved to the front of the pack, although folks who don’t fully grasp OKC’s reliance on sales and room taxes often misinterpret these moves as pet projects of influential individuals in the local private sector.

The fact of the matter is OKC’s hands are tied by the state when it comes to income generation, and anything that brings more sales taxes in turn helps generate revenue to fund the projects that follow.

[Dob Hooligan]

I love the Thunder and everything they have done since they got here. Even before, if we count their efforts with the Hornets.

I think the current arena timeline doesn't look rushed when I think that The Thunder arrived in 2009 and we have been pushing and building downtown stuff around the team since. Yet, that is only 15 years. If the arena opens 2029, then that would be the 20th year. And the owners are anxious to enjoy it sooner rather than later. Since they have learned the hard truth that nobody lives forever.

[ShadowStrings]

Would it make any sense at all to delay the MAPS 4 stadium and put it where Paycom is now? Not sure if that is even possible (either from a MAPS administration perspective, or if the site is even big enough).

Bump. Just out of curiosity.

[Teo9969]

Bump. Just out of curiosity.

The site might be big enough but the opportunity for future expansion would be limited, I don't think this would be considered by the city.

The city really needs more hotel rooms closer to the convention center so between Prairie Surf, Paycom, and Rehco, OKC should really be hoping for another 600+ rooms, ideally across multiple major brands (i.e. Hyatt, Marriott, & Hilton). I suppose the Dream hotels could constitute part of that, but those major flags matter to certain travelers/convention goers who may prefer to stay with their reward programs, and they need to be within a reasonable walking distance of the Convention Center.

[chssooner]

The site might be big enough but the opportunity for future expansion would be limited, I don't think this would be considered by the city.

The city really needs more hotel rooms closer to the convention center so between Prairie Surf, Paycom, and Rehco, OKC should really be hoping for another 600+ rooms, ideally across multiple major brands (i.e. Hyatt, Marriott, & Hilton). I suppose the Dream hotels could constitute part of that, but those major flags matter to certain travelers/convention goers who may prefer to stay with their reward programs, and they need to be within a reasonable walking distance of the Convention Center.

It is pathetic how few full-service hotels OKC has. Like, it's bad. Even Grand Rapids has a JW Marriott. OKC may never get a hotel of that level.

[Rover]

It is pathetic how few full-service hotels OKC has. Like, it's bad. Even Grand Rapids has a JW Marriott. OKC may never get a hotel of that level.

Omni is every bit the level of JW Marriott.

[chssooner]

Omni is every bit the level of JW Marriott.

Agree to disagree, IMO. Marriott is a bigger brand by miles than Omni. Omni is a great hotel, but a top-notch Marriott brand hotel would be awesome, and do wonders for OKC.

[Rover]

Agree to disagree, IMO. Marriott is a bigger brand by miles than Omni. Omni is a great hotel, but a top-notch Marriott brand hotel would be awesome, and do wonders for OKC.

You can disagree all you want, but Omni is a respected international luxury brand. Marriott is apparently just the brand you know.

[chssooner]

You can disagree all you want, but Omni is a respected international luxury brand. Marriott is apparently just the brand you know.

Omni is great, but I would bet more people know the Marriott brand than Omni (if you know of something to counter that, let me know). Having 586 locations versus less than 100, with only 2 outside the US and none outside North America speaks to that.

Not bashing Omni, at all. But perception is reality. Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, those are the international and global brands. Omni has 2 outside of America. I want OKC to have a top-level Hyatt and Marriott to go with the Omni. Those brands will add more cache to OKC that it is missing.

[Dob Hooligan]

Not sure what this has to do with the arena. But isn’t there some geographic limit to hotels in relation to the Omni?

[Laramie]

Not sure what this has to do with the arena. But isn’t there some geographic limit to hotels in relation to the Omni?

Omni also would retain a right of first negotiation to develop any hotel on the Cox site.

Cox Convention Center, which is currently the city’s main convention center, may not be used as the main convention center one year after Omni opens. The agreement restricts redevelopment as a hotel. Omni would be offered first rights to develop a hotel on the site. Additionally, the agreement creates a “no-subsidy zone” that would restrict the city from offering subsidies for any future hotel development. First National Center, which is beginning renovations to make way for a hotel, apartments and retail/dining, was excluded from the zone.--Oklahoma Gazette, July 27, 2017

[Rover]

Omni is great, but I would bet more people know the Marriott brand than Omni (if you know of something to counter that, let me know). Having 586 locations versus less than 100, with only 2 outside the US and none outside North America speaks to that.

Not bashing Omni, at all. But perception is reality. Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, those are the international and global brands. Omni has 2 outside of America. I want OKC to have a top-level Hyatt and Marriott to go with the Omni. Those brands will add more cache to OKC that it is missing.

McDonald’s has more locations and better known, but it doesn’t mean their burgers better. There are lots of luxury hotel brands I doubt you are as familiar with too that are great.

Omni is a great brand for the area near the core and the new arena. The new arena commitment will draw other to the area and we should see increased demand for private development.

[BoulderSooner]

A lease is a binding legal document. Also, I keep seeing people talk about Prairie Surf as if it is fully dark. They are currently hosting shooting for a major feature film, the Twister sequel. They were quiet for a few months, but that was largely due to the writers and actors strikes. Who knows what they have on the books, or what business they will close between now and the end of their lease.

A City buyout would go against the arena project budget, and nobody wants that, least of all the City. Like it or not, Prairie Surf is in the driver's seat, and as of now the building largely cannot be touched until the end of 2025, two years from now. After the building is vacated the site will probably take more than a year to be ready for the new arena to begin construction. This puts a 2029 arena delivery in extreme jeopardy. This is one of the main reasons other sites are in play, which I have been alluding to for many months on this thread. A buyout is of course possible, but there is currently no plan on the table.

in the PSM lease (as i understand it) the city has every right to condemn the building and have the OCURA acquire it .. and that breaks the lease .. (during that process PSM would be owned something to be sure but they couldn't stop it from happening)

[HOT ROD]

Agree to disagree, IMO. Marriott is a bigger brand by miles than Omni. Omni is a great hotel, but a top-notch Marriott brand hotel would be awesome, and do wonders for OKC.

OKC used to have a full scale Marriott, that's now an Embassy Suites. I'd also count Windam Grand at the same level as Marriott and we do have the Renaissance hotel. Remember the original plan was for the former Renaissance Hotel to be flagged as a Marriott but that fell trhough and Windam got it.

But yes, I do agree with you that it's time for a full service Marriott to return to downtown. And we finally get a full service Hyatt, and the others - downtown. I'm fairly confident they're coming.

[BoulderSooner]

OKC used to have a full scale Marriott, that's now an Embassy Suites. I'd also count Windam Grand at the same level as Marriott and we do have the Renaissance hotel. Remember the original plan was for the former Renaissance Hotel to be flagged as a Marriott but that fell trhough and Windam got it.

But yes, I do agree with you that it's time for a full service Marriott to return to downtown. And we finally get a full service Hyatt, and the others - downtown. I'm fairly confident they're coming.

the renaissance Waterford ... used to be a full Marriott and was rebranded in 2016

[gopokes88]

I'm putting together a timeline on MAPS 3 & 4, when the new arena first was mentioned by Holt or anyone else directly involved, the deal with Prairie Surf, and several other key dates.

I do know for sure the City started their deal with Prairie Surf on 1/1/21. I also know Holt talked about the need for a new 'Big League' arena at his State of the City address in 2022 at the latest.


And one more time: Can we PLEASE stop the insanity about the ownership selling/planning/or threatening to sell?? If someone can provide a hard, reputable quote or real information that's one thing, but this talk just keeps getting repeated and it's taken on a life of its own, and as far as I can tell, absolutely no one has real insight on this matter. Things keep getting posted as facts when they are anything but, and in the meantime we are trying to have an informed, rational discussion.

Same thing for the project timeline, and other key points.

Gabe Ikard, who married into the Thunder ownership, said as much on his radio show.

I'm glad it was passed but it wasn't an empty threat.

[Laramie]

Gabe Ikard, who married into the Thunder ownership, said as much on his radio show.

I'm glad it was passed but it wasn't an empty threat.

Glad we didn't find out if this wasn't an empty threat. The 71% approval rating says a lot about OKC residents.

[Laramie]

Error: Double post . . .

[Bali_Sooner]

I prefer the crazy look (I don't know the architectural term lol) of the BOK arena in Tulsa. I hope they do something similar for the new arena.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^
BOK was designed by César Pelli, who among other things was architect for Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur. Not sure if this arena will be designed by a “starchitect,” but the budget by itself will certainly give it a great shot at a notable design firm. And I’m sure everyone involved will want aesthetics to be of primary importance, in the way the were NOT of primary importance for Paycom, which was build on an extraordinarily modest budget.

[Shortsyeararound]

^^^^^^^^
BOK was designed by César Pelli, who among other things was architect for Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur. Not sure if this arena will be designed by a “starchitect,” but the budget by itself will certainly give it a great shot at a notable design firm. And I’m sure everyone involved will want aesthetics to be of primary importance, in the way the were NOT of primary importance for Paycom, which was build on an extraordinarily modest budget.

As there is so much passion around this, I would love to see the drawings stay in-state by an Oklahoma firm. Maybe somewhere the little guy gets picked instead of a “starchtect” that is padding his ego.

[BoulderSooner]

^^^^^^^^
BOK was designed by César Pelli, who among other things was architect for Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur. Not sure if this arena will be designed by a “starchitect,” but the budget by itself will certainly give it a great shot at a notable design firm. And I’m sure everyone involved will want aesthetics to be of primary importance, in the way the were NOT of primary importance for Paycom, which was build on an extraordinarily modest budget.

lets get real there is about a 90% chance this will be designed by either Populous or HOK

[Oski]

As there is so much passion around this, I would love to see the drawings stay in-state by an Oklahoma firm. Maybe somewhere the little guy gets picked instead of a “starchtect” that is padding his ego.

I hope not, OK firms haven't got to that level yet. I guess it will be HOK, or Populus.