New Downtown Arena

[Rover]

No. Read again and attempt to understand the other side.

Oh, I do understand. Just saying that fake pictures of a facility that doesn’t represent the actual plans shouldn’t be what sells people. I know people like pretty pictures but I would hope they understand issues, not titillating graphics.

[Teo9969]

OKC mayors don’t win statewide office. At least none have since I started paying attention in the 1970s. US Representative would be a lot of work, a waste of his talent, and a step down IMO. I think Holt can do more as mayor, and can probably keep the job 16-20 years if he wants.

He has a unique brand and, depending on how the upcoming national election goes, his brand may become attractive.to the Republican base. It also may not, but if it does, I think he probably takes it.

[Teo9969]

Oh, I do understand. Just saying that fake pictures of a facility that doesn’t represent the actual plans shouldn’t be what sells people. I know people like pretty pictures but I would hope they understand issues, not titillating graphics.

While fake pictures shouldn't be the selling point, getting any sort of real information other than "we want to build a new arena" could and should influence decisions on the vote. A graphic would likely help people visualize all the additional items that will come with this arena and how they will interact, but it's those items that we need to know and that the powers that be have yet to bring to the table.

[jn1780]

No. I’ll translate for you. He’s asking: are we getting FiServ, Little Caesar’s or Papa John’s?

I don't think they need drawings, but they do need to provide a direct comparison Arena to highlight what they think the money asked for will get them. Maybe that's harder because you would be admitting that they already have a site in mind which everyone pretty much knows where it's going unless your being super dense.

Edit: You as in them.

[April in the Plaza]

I don't think they need drawings, but they do need to provide a direct comparison Arena to highlight what they think the money asked for will get them. Maybe that's harder because you would be admitting that they already have a site in mind which everyone pretty much knows where it's going unless your being super dense.

Edit: You as in them.

they don't need to do anything too elaborate. just a few high level renderings and a short video would convert a lot of the "No, this plan is just too shady" folks into Yes votes.





source: https://populous.com/project/fiserv-forum

[PoliSciGuy]

What other MAPS/city projects have ever been approved without a rendering?

[RodH]

What other MAPS/city projects have ever been approved without a rendering?

Almost all of them. The current arena, the library, the baseball park, the canal, the convention center, the Cox Center expansion, the streetcar, and Scissortail Park did not have renders and/or were substantially different in design or location from what was initially proposed. The City can't select an architect until it knows that there is money and a need for one. None of the Maps For Kids projects had renderings before the vote. These are just some of the projects that didn't have renderings before they were approved.

[Cocaine]

In all honesty this vote will probably fail and putting it up to vote in December is asking for it. Details, details and more details are what's needed. The city council needs to get on it AND specifically say who will get the money from whatever company sponsors this arena. If it will open in say 2030 would sponsors pay 150 million over 15 years? That money could be used to pay for the arena but as of now we do not even have details on that. Or even if the money would go to the city or go to the Thunder. It's basically give us $1 billion now or else. They are asking for a good portion of the city to vote no. I just don't so how people don't see this as a trash deal. If the Thunder wanna leave they can go. If they want to present a better deal then maybe I could vote yes.

[bchris02]

It's understandable that the NBA has strict arena standards and that the Paycom Center as it currently is might not measure up, but can it not be upgraded to meet the standards? The arena has already had numerous upgrades since it first opened in 2002. I think a new arena is a difficult sell given that the current one isn't that old and has had at least a couple of facelifts already.

[chssooner]

It's understandable that the NBA has strict arena standards and that the Paycom Center as it currently is might not measure up, but can it not be upgraded to meet the standards? The arena has already had numerous upgrades since it first opened in 2002. I think a new arena is a difficult sell given that the current one isn't that old and has had at least a couple of facelifts already.

There's no room to bring it up to standards. The block is too small, as is the shell of the arena. Can only add so much lipstick to a pig.

[chssooner]

In all honesty this vote will probably fail and putting it up to vote in December is asking for it. Details, details and more details are what's needed. The city council needs to get on it AND specifically say who will get the money from whatever company sponsors this arena. If it will open in say 2030 would sponsors pay 150 million over 15 years? That money could be used to pay for the arena but as of now we do not even have details on that. Or even if the money would go to the city or go to the Thunder. It's basically give us $1 billion now or else. They are asking for a good portion of the city to vote no. I just don't so how people don't see this as a trash deal. If the Thunder wanna leave they can go. If they want to present a better deal then maybe I could vote yes.

It won't fail. What on earth are you talking about? Okctalk.com is a very, VERY small vast minority of OKC. Most are totally ok with doing what is needed to keep the Thunder. They know that the Thunder will leave quickly if a no vote rules the day.

[Dob Hooligan]

I think we will learn much more as we get closer to the vote. Less than 3 months, now? We will get some general renderings; estimated future specs for truck load-out and traveling show needs; enhancements that allow for higher customer spend and greater daily usage, etc...

We know what the team, and we the city need for a "50 Year Arena". It ain't no secret.

It comes down to if we trust our Mayor (that the world and everyone who can read thinks is hot stuff) and our other elected officials, plus our half dozen rich men owners, who have tied their lives and fortunes to Oklahoma City?

[DowntownMan]

Jo Beth is talking down the Thunder deal today again on Twitter. Many of the replies disagree with her takes.

[Laramie]

It's understandable that the NBA has strict arena standards and that the Paycom Center as it currently is might not measure up, but can it not be upgraded to meet the standards? The arena has already had numerous upgrades since it first opened in 2002. I think a new arena is a difficult sell given that the current one isn't that old and has had at least a couple of facelifts already.

There's not enough space to increase vendors or add the outside balcony overlooking the new Scissortail Park and convention center complex. A new arena to replace Payom Center is the only viable solution available.

[April in the Plaza]

I think we will learn much more as we get closer to the vote. Less than 3 months, now? We will get some general renderings; estimated future specs for truck load-out and traveling show needs; enhancements that allow for higher customer spend and greater daily usage, etc...

We know what the team, and we the city need for a "50 Year Arena". It ain't no secret.

It comes down to if we trust our Mayor (that the world and everyone who can read thinks is hot stuff) and our other elected officials, plus our half dozen rich men owners, who have tied their lives and fortunes to Oklahoma City?

That’s not necessarily a good thing

[SouthOKC]

So, you want the city to pay for designs so you can see where the doors are located and what color the roof is? That will make you vote for it?

If you’ve listened to date they’ve talked plenty about the shortcomings of our current arena and what a new arena should include at a minimum.

We’re building an arena to the specs of Thunder ownership requests. What everyone wants to see is the plans and requirements they have already laid out to David Holt. There is already a rush on the project. I don’t believe there is anyway the Thunder don’t already have detailed plans.

[Teo9969]

We’re building an arena to the specs of Thunder ownership requests. What everyone wants to see is the plans and requirements they have already laid out to David Holt. There is already a rush on the project. I don’t believe there is anyway the Thunder don’t already have detailed plans.

It is very unlikely that there are any sort of detailed plans. It doesn't make sense to have detailed plans on a project of this magnitude without funding in place.

What will have happened is they would have done some napkin math and approximations of the cost for what they want. More of that detail needs to be revealed.

At the end of the day, if we're building a $900M arena and it's going to be an arena only, we need to drop the tax collections by at least one year, because there is zero reason to have money for future upgrades to a billion dollar arena. PBC can fund future upgrades they want at the 15-20 year mark.

Absolutely the most asinine aspect to this whole thing is that we would expose ourselves to so substantially overcollect funds that we could build the 2nd part of the convention center with the extra funds.

Most likely, the arena itself, with everything the arena needs, won't even make it to $750M in cost. So the rest of that is land/demolition and interest and we will land well within budget @ 5 years of collections vs 6

[Rover]

We’re building an arena to the specs of Thunder ownership requests. What everyone wants to see is the plans and requirements they have already laid out to David Holt. There is already a rush on the project. I don’t believe there is anyway the Thunder don’t already have detailed plans.

The specs are what is required of a competitive arena for a top tier city with amenities necessary to attract professional events like sports teams, major concerts, etc. You sound as if it is just some sort of with list or vanity endeavor for the Thunder.

[SouthOKC]

The specs are what is required of a competitive arena for a top tier city with amenities necessary to attract professional events like sports teams, major concerts, etc. You sound as if it is just some sort of with list or vanity endeavor for the Thunder.

That’s not true…

It’s not specs to attract major concerts. We’re already getting major concerts.

It’s specs to accommodate more suites and seating “experiences” that can be sold at a higher price point. I highly doubt the seating capacity will be materially changed. They know how many suites they’d like to have, the locations they would accept, the street interaction, additional types of development, and revenue streams.

You really believe the Thunder are just sitting around waiting on this to pass before drawing up any conceptual plans?

[SouthOKC]

It is very unlikely that there are any sort of detailed plans. It doesn't make sense to have detailed plans on a project of this magnitude without funding in place.

What will have happened is they would have done some napkin math and approximations of the cost for what they want. More of that detail needs to be revealed.

At the end of the day, if we're building a $900M arena and it's going to be an arena only, we need to drop the tax collections by at least one year, because there is zero reason to have money for future upgrades to a billion dollar arena. PBC can fund future upgrades they want at the 15-20 year mark.

Absolutely the most asinine aspect to this whole thing is that we would expose ourselves to so substantially overcollect funds that we could build the 2nd part of the convention center with the extra funds.

Most likely, the arena itself, with everything the arena needs, won't even make it to $750M in cost. So the rest of that is land/demolition and interest and we will land well within budget @ 5 years of collections vs 6

You believe that’s how multibillion dollar organizations build forecast models?

[Rover]

That’s not true…

It’s not specs to attract major concerts. We’re already getting major concerts.

It’s specs to accommodate more suites and seating “experiences” that can be sold at a higher price point. I highly doubt the seating capacity will be materially changed. They know how many suites they’d like to have, the locations they would accept, the street interaction, additional types of development, and revenue streams.

You really believe the Thunder are just sitting around waiting on this to pass before drawing up any conceptual plans?

Not sure you understand how designs are done and when.

[chssooner]

That’s not true…

It’s not specs to attract major concerts. We’re already getting major concerts.

It’s specs to accommodate more suites and seating “experiences” that can be sold at a higher price point. I highly doubt the seating capacity will be materially changed. They know how many suites they’d like to have, the locations they would accept, the street interaction, additional types of development, and revenue streams.

You really believe the Thunder are just sitting around waiting on this to pass before drawing up any conceptual plans?

We're getting middle of the road concerts with a couple top-tier concerts. There is a reason U2 went to Tulsa, and why others they have gotten over OKC. They can get complex stages set up easier due to better truck access and docks.

[SouthOKC]

We're getting middle of the road concerts with a couple top-tier concerts. There is a reason U2 went to Tulsa, and why others they have gotten over OKC. They can get complex stages set up easier due to better truck access and docks.

We get nearly every big name in country music…just look at the recent and upcoming artists.

I’m continually hearing about this unsolvable dilemma of truck access and shipping docs…if we as a city can’t solve something so mundane then we def shouldn’t be looking at building a new arena. The great shipping dock conundrum of Oklahoma City leaving the worlds greatest architects puzzled. The only solution was a $1B entirely new arena with shipping docks and truck access placed perfectly for Bono himself.

Folks, plain and simple we’re building a new arena because the Thunder require it. No chance they met with the Mayor and told him some broad requests for size and suggested a few locations.

[SouthOKC]

Not sure you understand how designs are done and when.

They’re done when someone wants them.

[BoulderSooner]

That’s not true…

It’s not specs to attract major concerts. We’re already getting major concerts.

OKC currently can NOT host back to back events ... so yes this is also to attract major concerts ..