Non-Custodial Parents

[jacodenn]

I am very interested in contacting Non-Custodial Parents and hearing your stories. I would like to know how your life has changed since divorce and what kind of problems you may be having with exercising your rights to be with your children. Custodial Parents are also welcome to share.

[jacodenn]

From Midtowner..."So as an advocate for NCP rights, what are the specific things you tend to advocate? In other words, from your perspective, what do you think is currently broken in our system?

I'm actually pretty interested in what you have to say. I'm currently a law student, and I plan to practice family law when I finish school."

Let me start by saying if I could do it over again (college), I would go into Family Law...as a Mediator.

There is one area of the law that seems to be lacking...enforcing the non-custodial parents right to "visitation" with their child(ren). Yes, there are avenues within the Court to file motions to Enforce Visitation. But guess what, in most cases the Custodial Parent (CP) will still interfere or deny those rights to the other parent. The law needs to include punitive measures...jail time. In my situation my ex-spouse is a client of DHS, and their policy concerning visitation is "hands off." They don't want to get involved in that matter. But miss a Child Support Payment, and DHS is all over you.

More later...

[Midtowner]

I would argue that courts should have the authority to set the terms for, or completely cut off visitation when the courts determine that visitation on the NCP's terms is not in the best interest of the child.

How would you respond to that?

[jacodenn]

In cases where the perponderance of factual evidence would support such a decision, I would not argue against such decisions. Too often, a CP will distort and even fabricate "facts" that are later found to be unsubstantiated. This is particularly true when the CP may be guilty of parental alienation or suffering from malicious mother syndrome. And it seems that Courts will do nothing more than admonish the CP for such behavior.

[Midtowner]

In cases where the perponderance of factual evidence would support such a decision, I would not argue against such decisions. Too often, a CP will distort and even fabricate "facts" that are later found to be unsubstantiated. This is particularly true when the CP may be guilty of parental alienation or suffering from malicious mother syndrome. And it seems that Courts will do nothing more than admonish the CP for such behavior.

What you're saying here is that a court made a finding. The basis of your lawsuit would be something a court did.

That courts "do nothing" about perjury is just a generalized statement. MMS or parental alienation are things which the courts are already pretty well equipped to deal with.

It's hard for me to discuss in any more detail without having the appearance of giving legal advice, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

[jacodenn]

Midtowner...yes, I agree, it was a pretty generalized statement. It is supported however by the endless accounts one can find throughout the web.

And that is the purpose of this Thread, to get people to share their stories.

Thanks for your inputs.

[kmf563]

I'd be okay with the 50/50. I am the legal guardian and I can tell you that the child support system set up right now is crap. I see why a lot of parents have to receive supplemental income from DHS. The older they get, the more expensive they get too.
I'm not saying you specifically are not doing your share, but so many parents in divorces pay what the the legal system says they have to without any regard for what the child needs or costs to raise. A lot of worthless parents step down in their jobs or get a new one just to lower their income so they don't have to pay as much in child support. The child is the one who has to suffer through all of this too. It's ridiculous.

[jacodenn]

kmf563...Actually, when it comes to Child Support, Oklahoma has a very good system, when it is applied correctly. Also, it is true that Child Support Orders can be modified. However, there is a formula in place for this as well, which I believe asks what ones earned income has been for the last three years.

In the case of my Son, his mother, whom has physical custody, has not paid one single penny toward his support. She chooses not to work and the the state of Oklahoma (DHS) supports her. I should also point out that she has three other school aged children from her first marriage. Four children for any Single parent is quite a responsibility...especially financially. However, in her case, she recieves two child support checks each month, State Aid and Benefits, lives in a house that someone else pays for, drives a car that is paid for, etc, etc, etc.

Anyways, if you are having problems with collecting Child Support, e-mail me and I'll see what can be done.

[kmf563]

oh not a problem getting it. the formula just sucks. and i'm not saying you don't do your part, just a general statement. My child's father pays his child support. Just don't ask for anything beyond that. It doesn't matter what the kiddo needs.

from my personal experience, the formula works great if you never have anything out of the normal occur. Now show me a parent who can predict every single penny the child will need. Friends birthday parties, camp outs, over night adventures, all of the extra funds for school - lunch money, popcorn on friday, books, supplies for art class, project in science, etc, then you have the extra curricular activites that change on a regular basis - soccer, biking, skating, guitar, scouts, etc. All of that doesn't even count the new games they want or how expensive clothes are which they out grow every other week. Then let's talk about the car and college fund.

Your situation sounds like a real winner sucking off other people though. Sorry you have to deal with that.

[jacodenn]

kmf563...You are so right. The schools nickle and dime you to death for this and that. Who said that Public Education in Oklahoma (as set forth in the Oklahoma Constitution) is free? I know about these added expenses and Lord they do add up. And in these instances, I am sure the attitude of most NCP's is, "Hey, that's what you get Child Support for." Both parents ought to be absorbing these costs (50/50), or the parents ought to come to an amiable agreement on just how much more should be paid in monthly Child Support to cover these added expenses.

[PennyQuilts]

I work as a guardian ad litem which means that I am constantly in court on behalf of the child rather than either parent. Court is a very poor substitute for families standing up and doing what is in the child's best interest. I regularly see parents who share children who won't speak to each other. Period. (and I distinguish them from the many who will speak but only at the top of their lungs and with fire in their eyes).

I see older children who really don't want to visit the NC parent but they won't be honest so the NCP blames the CP. I have seen the NCP rant and rave about the CP to the child, and the child just sits there, trapped (can't admit at this point that they really didn't want to visit in the first place, can they?). Can't tell you have many times I have had a child ask me to please explain to the NCP for them because they are so distraught about having such a conversation. I usually pray that the NCP will remember to be a parent instead of attacking the child in response (fortunately, they are usually mature about it, tough as it is to hear).

Certainly I see alienation by the CP and the audacity of the CP to rob the child of a relationship with the NCP is infuriating. I read a report, recently, that insisted alienation doesn't happen. I don't believe that. I see it everyday.

I regularly see NCP livid with rage that the court doesn't "fix" the problem. I generally don't say much to them because I know they are genuinely hurting. But the fact is that USUALLY, when they are dealing with a truly difficult CP, the simple truth is that the NCP chose that person to bring their child into this world. The CP was the same person then as they are now. The NCP made a very, very bad choice in selecting their child's parent and there is only so much the court can do to correct the choice. The child/children are the ones who end up paying the price. Always.

And CP feel pretty much the same way about the NCP.

I see horrible partners that are actually pretty good parents. But try telling someone who hates her exspouse with a vengence (he cheated on her, lied to her, ran off with her best friend, stole her money, etc.) that he is actually a pretty good dad.

I regularly see dads who handed off the child at the end of the relationship and now, years later, have second thoughts. You can't build a relationship through court ordered visitation - you can only try to maintain or enhance it.

I see young dads who foolishly brought a child into this world with a bar hopping lush. They wake up, realize they are married to the wrong person and walk out, leaving her with the child. Thereafter, they grow up and marry the woman of their dreams. Now, they want to go back, retrieve the child from their previous union and be all happy, happy. "Your honor, she is a bar hopping lush and I am married and go to church!" Often, they get the child but think how screwed up the poor thing is at that point. Oh, and the child absolutely hates their stepmother who may actually be the only sane one of the bunch.

And how about mama who expects her children to be madly in love with her boyfriend du jour? Until she dumps him or he dumps her? By that time, NC dad is just one of a string of Romeos and the kids are supposed to sort it all out.

The courts can only do so much. We usually try to get as much consistentcy for the child as possible, short of an abusive/unsafe situation. If the truth were known, decisions often come down to such things as whether the child will have to change schools, sad to say. People frequently seem to think that if the kids have bad parents that they will be placed in foster care. Not so. You typically have to have a child actually sexually or physically harmed (and usually there are criminal charges that go along with that), or demonstratively running wild before that happens. A child running wild is likely to come to the attention of the court because they have been delinquent. Delinquent kids usually go to detention or a group home or get in-home counseling - not foster care.

My advice to parents is to stay involved with their children, even if they are NC from the get go. Never drift away. Stay involved with their school, their sports, their recreational activities, their medical matters. And be civil to the other parent even if it nearly kills you. You can't take a swing at them without hitting the kids.

As for child support, of course the CP spends more. All the same, emotionally, it is hard to write out a check in one chunk to hand over to someone you might not trust. Doesn't mean you don't do it or that you are justified to skip it - but realize that it is a whole different experience than ten dollars here and twenty dollars there. If you are the CP, you buy your little daughter a cute outfit and you get something out of it besides just clothes on her back. She is a cutie, she is excited, you get to see her wear it, etc. Imagine writing a $35.00 check and handing it to the other parent who may or may not buy clothes with it, who will get to pick them out, him/herself, and that you will probably never see. And even if the CP buys her the exact same outfit you would, her little eyes light up and the CP gets the gratitude and equates CP with good things. And believe me, the CP is likely to let the child know that whenever there is something they want and the CP can't afford, it will the fault of the NCP if he/she is late on the payments.

These kids are in a blender. Makes you sick.

[jacodenn]

East Coast Okie...I just read your "excellent" post, and will get back to it in just a little bit.

[jacodenn]

East Coast Okie...I am familiar with guardian ad litems. The Court (South Carolina) appointed a guardian ad litem in my first divorce. Our children were 5 and 3 at the time. For the most part she (guardian ad litem) spent the better part of her time interviewing neighbors, teachers, and co-workers. My ex was a good mother. She just had one problem really... she liked working (Air Force) more than anything else. The Air Force was her number one priority and she accomplished everything she set out to do in her career. I was also in the Air Force. I was very involved in my children's lives, and I believe it was this fact, coupled with my ex's workaholic(ism) that I was granted sole physical custody of our children. Fortunately for the children, she and I maintained an amiable/civil relationship.

I re-married 16 years later (Oklahoma). We divorced a year later, and the following month, after the divorce became final, she told me she was pregnant. She was hell bent on giving our child up for adoption until a month before our Son was born she found out she couldn't do so without my consent. After our Son was born we were back in Court over Custody and Child Support. I was working full-time in a Department Store, and she had lost her job at a local church (not because of paternity) a month or so after giving birth. She decided to become a stay-at-home mom. The Court decided on joint custody, with "standard visitation" (I detest that word), and she was granted physical custody.

End of "Part I"...will continue later.

[PennyQuilts]

I believe I'd rather slit my throat than be a parent in a contested custody/visitation situation. It is so painful.

[jacodenn]

East Coast Okie...Both of my parents were alcoholics. By parents I mean a Mom and a Step-Father (I didn't find my biological Father until I was in my 40's, and then he denied it).

When I was 4 or 5 years old, I came out of my bedroom one night to find my Mom sitting at the breakfast nook with her face all bloodied. My Step-Father had just beat the living daylights out of her. He looked at me and said, "Your Mom and I are going to get a divorce. Which one of us do you want to live with it?" I am sure you know what my answer was.

Some days later, I came down with the German Measles. I was in my darkened room, with my sunglasses on, watching The Wizard of Oz (for some reason, back then, when you contracted Measles you had to protect your eyes). Anyways, I became frightened of the "wicked witch" and went out into the living room to seek comfort from my Mom. I couldn't find her, nor my Step-Father. I went next door to a neighbor's house. They called the Police Department. Within an hour I was taken to a Children's Home. I was there for a few days before my Step-father came to get me. They eventually did get divorced I believe (don't know for sure yet).

A few years later I was taken from my Mom and placed in a Foster Homes(13 in all from the age of 8-18). My Step-Father took his life in 1965, and then my Mom took her life in 1969.

Of all the memories I have of my childhood, the one that stands out the most was the night my Step-Father asked me, "Who do you want to live with?"

Parent's, if you ever contemplate getting a divorce...don't ever put your child(ren) in that position.

[PennyQuilts]

<<Of all the memories I have of my childhood, the one that stands out the most was the night my Step-Father asked me, "Who do you want to live with?"

Parent's, if you ever contemplate getting a divorce...don't ever put your child(ren) in that position.>>

Amen

[jacodenn]

This is what the Oklahoma Department of Human Services thinks of non-custodial parent's rights...YouTube - 6 Year Old Son Held Hostage By Mother

[PennyQuilts]

That flyer is just drama queen, ridiculous. Just what is that supposed to accomplish? Can you imagine how his child would feel if he saw that flyer? Anyone inspired to print out something like this and distribute it to strangers needs counseling.

If it is just a ploy to draw attention to noncustodial parents' rights, I think it is off the mark. If I got something like that, I'd be worried that a lunatic was out there and say a prayer of thanks that the child was not in his custody...

The flyer is just in bad taste and over the top. It is also weird. Parenthood and weirdness is not a comfortable combination.

That's all I'm saying.

[jacodenn]

East Coast Okie...Very few successes in life are rarely attainable without some risk or sacrifice.

When a child, or anyone for that matter, is reported "missing," one of the very first steps a loved one takes is to post a "Missing Person" flyer/hand-out/poster all throughout the community.

Although my Son is not missing, his birth mother has interfered with and/or denied my Son's right to be with me and I with him.

My flyer serves the same purpose as the one that might be distributed by a grieving parent that is so desperately trying to find their missing child.

As far as I am concerned, this is an all too common occurrence for many NCP's, and just as there is a public outcry against parents that do not provide child support for their child(ren), there is an even greater outcry coming from our children asking..."why can't I be with my dad/mom?"

Can you hear their voices?