ONG's monthly increase

[jn1780]

While I don't agree with charging 1500 to disconnect from ONG. Usually someone who can make the investment to live off the grid can afford a 1500 disconnect fee. Also, someone who has a gas stove probably has a gas furnace also so its unlikely there going to switch unless their making the investment to completely switch over. That involves having an electrician install 240 volt outlet for the range and upgraded power requirements for an electric furnace.

So if you are not making the investment to go all solar, all you did was replaced two of your appliances with two less efficient forms of heating and increased your electric bill. So I don't think 1500 is going to make a big difference in the long run.

[Jersey Boss]

I have a lot of questions
What are the salaries of the CEO/COO and what did they do during the crises?
Still paying dividends and how much?
Monies billed and collected from those customers who were charged "minimum biil" even though they didn't use that much gas. Rate payers need ro awe an accounting of these funds.
Disconnect fee from a public utility for 1400? Why and what world does ONG live in?
How much does this monoply spend
on lovbying and advertising?

[TheTravellers]

I have a lot of questions
What are the salaries of the CEO/COO and what did they do during the crises?
Still paying dividends and how much?
Monies billed and collected from those customers who were charged "minimum biil" even though they didn't use that much gas. Rate payers need ro awe an accounting of these funds.
Disconnect fee from a public utility for 1400? Why and what world does ONG live in?
How much does this monoply spend
on lovbying and advertising?

All good questions.

Salaries are probably way beyond what they deserve, along with all the stocks, etc., bet they sat around waiting for updates and their subordinates to do things.

Bet they're still paying dividends and will forever, don't know how much, though.

It's all just a fiasco, from the very sources that charged literally astronomical rates to ONG's plan, which has never been attempted before.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/busi...ty/8795571002/

[TheTravellers]

Supreme Court should stop securitization racket

"The issue with all of this is that, to date, nobody has determined who got paid the astronomical spot market prices. Oklahoma’s regulated utilities, OG&E, ONG and PSO are subsidiaries of OGE Energy Corp, ONE Gas and American Electric Power, respectively. Some of these parent companies own interests in power generation, midstream operations, storage and other gas industry interests. Somebody made this money and we need to know who.

While the utilities are prohibited by law from making a profit on fuel charges, their parent or sister companies are under no such obligation. We still do not know who exactly got paid, whether there was corporate self-dealing or other troubling arrangements.

Why should consumers pay for any of that? Lawyers will make convoluted legal arguments about contract law, energy markets and the regulatory environment, blaming everyone from state regulators and the federal government to Mother Nature, but any person with an ounce of common sense can smell the stench of corruption a mile away.

Without knowing who got paid, how much they were paid and for what quantity of gas, it is not prudent or reasonable to approve this process and let the securitization ship set sail. The Supreme Court is the last line of defense in protecting the public interest and demanding real transparency accountability for what happened in February 2021.

While these systems are complex, all available information leads back to a basic question of fairness. The Oklahoma Supreme Court has an opportunity to intervene and make everyone involved come up with a better solution. It should take that opportunity and deny the securitization order."

[bombermwc]

I've got two huge problems with the way this went.
1 - the price that was being charged at the time was price gauging. You can't supply/demand away that bs. The sellers should be in a lawsuit right now for holding the country hostage that week.
2 - what happens when this happens again? What happens if this becomes an annual event or even every 5 years? Are we going to keep paying that mess and keep adding it on the bills because ONG didn't plan better?

[Bill Robertson]

This concerns OG&E but I didn't want to start a new thread. We're on the annual average payments on both utilities. With all the discussion of higher energy cost all of 2021 I expected the worst when I saw the OG&E letter in the mail. But our payment went down $12 dollars a month for the next 12 months. Almost 12%.

[onthestrip]

I've got two huge problems with the way this went.
1 - the price that was being charged at the time was price gauging. You can't supply/demand away that bs. The sellers should be in a lawsuit right now for holding the country hostage that week.
2 - what happens when this happens again? What happens if this becomes an annual event or even every 5 years? Are we going to keep paying that mess and keep adding it on the bills because ONG didn't plan better?

Exactly. Why is there no price gouging laws on this, when there are for other goods and services? We dont even get to know who profited from these crazy prices.
Secondly, what has OGE/ONG done to prevent this from happening again? As I see it, it looks like they got out unscathed and can just rely on consumers to foot the bill for any future winter blasts.

[TheTravellers]

Exactly. Why is there no price gouging laws on this, when there are for other goods and services? We dont even get to know who profited from these crazy prices.
Secondly, what has OGE/ONG done to prevent this from happening again? As I see it, it looks like they got out unscathed and can just rely on consumers to foot the bill for any future winter blasts.

Extremely bad precedents were set with the ONG and OG&E securitization procedures, customers are just ****ed from here on out with the OCC being pretty much in bed with the utilities.

[gjl]

This concerns OG&E but I didn't want to start a new thread. We're on the annual average payments on both utilities. With all the discussion of higher energy cost all of 2021 I expected the worst when I saw the OG&E letter in the mail. But our payment went down $12 dollars a month for the next 12 months. Almost 12%.

If you know that your electric payment is going down $12 per month for the next 12 months then you are on what is called Residential Flat Rate Billing. Your bill is the same every month regardless of usage for 12 months going forward. That is not the same as monthly averaging. I have been on Residential Flat Rate Billing for 10 years now. AFAIK ONG does not offer a plan like that, only average monthly billing where your monthly bill can change every month averaging your usage over the past 12 months.

[Bill Robertson]

If you know that your electric payment is going down $12 per month for the next 12 months then you are on what is called Residential Flat Rate Billing. Your bill is the same every month regardless of usage for 12 months going forward. That is not the same as monthly averaging. I have been on Residential Flat Rate Billing for 10 years now. AFAIK ONG does not offer a plan like that, only average monthly billing where your monthly bill can change every month averaging your usage over the past 12 months.

I couldn't think of what OG&E calls it. But is is still averaging of sorts. ONG averages the past 12 months each month. OG&E averages the past 12 months once a year.

[gjl]

I couldn't think of what OG&E calls it. But is is still averaging of sorts. ONG averages the past 12 months each month. OG&E averages the past 12 months once a year.

No it isn't. OG&E looks at your usage for the past 12 months and tries to predict your usage will be for the next 12 months and sets your rates based on that. There is a cushion built in because you are allowed to use up to 15% more than their prediction before they will charge you more. Being that OG&E is not in the business of giving out free electricity I'm sure that 15% is baked into the rate they are giving you. I'm not saying it's a bad plan as I've been on it for years and I like knowing exactly what my bill will be for the next 12 months and there have been a few occasions where it has gone down $10-$12 a month at renewal time. My point of correction was that you said you are on an average payment plan with both utilities when ONG doesn't have such a plan and what you are on with OG&E is not really averaging.

[bombermwc]

What's extra annoying is that ONG applied to all customers without considering their usage. OG&G did consider it and their rate was lower.

And for some reason, the seller of this high cost gas is being kept secret. That, in no way, helps anyone with being ok with this. It just contributes to the thought that something nefarious happened and we're just getting screwed over by it.

I understand that both are supposed to be working on better flow for sharing of fuel between generation and customer use of resources as well. Winterization is supposed to be in the works too. NONE of that addresses any sort of investigation into the price of the fuel though.

[TheTravellers]

What To Know About Oklahoma Natural Gas’ New Storm Charges

Looks like the "exit fee" isn't part of the package any longer, and the OCC is actually trying to find out who made the ridiculous amount of money for natural gas during that period (although it might not do much good if our crappy AG isn't going to do anything about it):

https://imaging.occ.ok.gov/AP/CaseFiles/occ30446325.pdf

[GaryOKC6]

I won't lose any sleep over 7>53 as month. I am just happy to be warm today. Crank up the heat!

[Bellaboo]

The sellers for the high cost fuel is the well owners / operators. We own some interest in some wells and our monthly check doubled from the previous month for February of 2021.

[onthestrip]

The sellers for the high cost fuel is the well owners / operators. We own some interest in some wells and our monthly check doubled from the previous month for February of 2021.

Should have more than doubled I would think when prices went up 500x higher than normal.

[Bellaboo]

Should have more than doubled I would think when prices went up 500x higher than normal.

The prices skyrocketed just for a few days, the rest of the month was normal. But when it was averaged with the month as a whole, it doubled the amount we normally get. But the price fluctuates daily. Also O & G has a 2 month lag in payment. Last February payment was received at the end of April.

[gopokes88]

I've got two huge problems with the way this went.
1 - the price that was being charged at the time was price gauging. You can't supply/demand away that bs. The sellers should be in a lawsuit right now for holding the country hostage that week.
2 - what happens when this happens again? What happens if this becomes an annual event or even every 5 years? Are we going to keep paying that mess and keep adding it on the bills because ONG didn't plan better?

Argue this point all you want but it bumps against reality.

I have a friend who made millions off that freeze. Wanna know how? He and his entire company went outside for 3 straight days in that weather keeping his field's pipes warm so the gas would keep flowing. I had several others go to similar measures to try and keep their gas flowing.

Had the don't price gouge laws been effect and the gas price was capped? He would have let them freeze, and the state would have almost assuredly ran out of gas for a short period of time. People wouldn't have power or heat without a fireplace.

He had nothing to do with midstream sending spot price to the moon to secure supplies, but when they did moon, he went to work to keep supply flowing.

[gopokes88]

Should have more than doubled I would think when prices went up 500x higher than normal.

Your oil company/operator was probably

A. hedged and didn't get the full benefit
B. Had a lot of production get knocked offline.

[gopokes88]

What's extra annoying is that ONG applied to all customers without considering their usage. OG&G did consider it and their rate was lower.

And for some reason, the seller of this high cost gas is being kept secret. That, in no way, helps anyone with being ok with this. It just contributes to the thought that something nefarious happened and we're just getting screwed over by it.

I understand that both are supposed to be working on better flow for sharing of fuel between generation and customer use of resources as well. Winterization is supposed to be in the works too. NONE of that addresses any sort of investigation into the price of the fuel though.

This is a 100% legitimate gripe. a 5,000 sq foot and 1,500 sq foot house would have used a huge difference in gas.

[GaryOKC6]

Since natural gas prices are a function of market supply and demand they can spike based on the market just like oil.

[onthestrip]

Your oil company/operator was probably

A. hedged and didn't get the full benefit
B. Had a lot of production get knocked offline.

May be a dumb question but isnt hedging done outside of any producer-minerals owner royalties? Just becuase Devon hedges doesnt mean that the oil they produced under Joe Bobs land doesnt change the market price they sold it for, no?

[bombermwc]

gopokes - so to that logic, just because they didn't invest in the infrastructure to winterize their system, we should all pay for them working outside for 3 days? No i don't buy it. That's the investment a business makes to be able to provide the service WITHOUT increasing a price 600% for a 3 day period.

garyokc - except this is why market economies have caps in some areas, to help control the volatility of those markets. As much as people like to think we are free market, there are still controls in place in times of disaster (and this certain qualified) to prevent companies from praying on customers. If this wasn't the EXACT case for that, I don't know what you would even both having the laws for. We all got screwed and people are actually wanting to defend it.

I was in Texas the week after this mess, and we're not even seeing 1/10th of the mess they are screaming about. The leadership there failed to pay for winterization to save a buck and the people are calling them out on it now. Abbott tries to talk around it, but people are not happy with the legislature. You'll see a lot changes there and some heads are going to roll at election time. The ice hadn't even melted before they started that process. So why are we here defending these people?

[TheTravellers]

...
I have a friend who made millions off that freeze. Wanna know how? He and his entire company went outside for 3 straight days in that weather keeping his field's pipes warm so the gas would keep flowing. I had several others go to similar measures to try and keep their gas flowing....

Why did he even have to do this? Why wasn't the infrastructure protected against this kind of situation? Did his company just decide to take the risk and hope a really deep freeze never happened, but if it did, he was assured of making ridiculous amounts of money?

I've spent days in a row working and neither me nor my company made millions during that period, we just kept the company going, it was part of our job. No, it wasn't outside in subzero weather, but companies should have the foresight so that people *don't* have to work outside in subzero weather for days.

[BoulderSooner]

Why did he even have to do this? Why wasn't the infrastructure protected against this kind of situation? Did his company just decide to take the risk and hope a really deep freeze never happened, but if it did, he was assured of making ridiculous amounts of money?

I've spent days in a row working and neither me nor my company made millions during that period, we just kept the company going, it was part of our job. No, it wasn't outside in subzero weather, but companies should have the foresight so that people *don't* have to work outside in subzero weather for days.

you don't build infrastructure to protect against once every 100 or 200 year (or once a 1000 year ) scenarios ...