Oklahoma's Fight To Save HB 1804

[Karried]

ahhh the Dutch.

If I have to see one more Tulip, I'll fling myself off the nearest cliff!

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

I'm glad you people smell what I'm steppin' in.

Stoopid people with their social tolerances...What are they thinking?

Pffft.

[Major]

"The sheriff of Tulsa County is guilty of ethnic cleansing and I can tell you very clear, that we will continue pursuing to find the reasons why these people have committed these atrocities against our Latino community,” said Rev. Miguel Rivera with the National Coalition of Latino Clergy."

This so-called Christian group filed their lawsuit today. If they win the lawsuit, these illegal foreign nationals will have more power that you, the citizens of Oklahoma. As I see it our country, as we know it, will be over.

I sure hope this gets some people's attention.

[Easy180]

I
The invasion of tens of millions illegal foreign nationals who have entered our country is a serious problem. It is talked about on the evening news nearly every night. Where have you been?

Just cause Lou Dobbs uses the issue to make ratings off of rich old white people who are absolutely dying for an excuse to get upset over anything doesn't make it a country killer

Hope you enjoy your home they built for you and the fruit juices you drink Major

And don't get me started on the Dutch...Pretty sure I saw one push a 4 year old girl down for a Hannah Montana ticket

[Architect2010]

ughhhh....
i hate when ppl start tlking about how that if we didnt have all
those illegals, than we wouldnt get anything done.
yes we would.
Im pretty sure my house would still be here.
Drinks???? Yes Illegals arent gonna make or break say.... minute maid.
Even without illegals, we would still have juice.... lol
still have houses.
Houses would still be built
albeit on a smaller scale, since they do make up a large portion of the population....
and i have no problem with illegals, just so you know...=]
Its just their srupid children, that are all involved in gangs and
all that crap.... grrrrrr. Most of them dont care.... the older illegals
are pretty gudd at what they do, but their children are.... i dunno.

[Easy180]

Well your poster name is Architect...You willing to change it to fruit picker2010, landscaper2010,kitchen worker2010 or construction2010?

White, Black and Asian parents birthed just as much of a percentage of worthless kids if not more

[Architect2010]

ahhh...
Im not much into architecture anymore....
im thinking about photography, or game design, web design, remodeling.
i do construction and remodeling with my dad....
well, you cannot tell me that there are larger percentage of Asian and White Gangsters or low scoring students is more than other races....
my school for example....
about 30 percent white, 30 percent black, 30 percent hipanic, 2 asian, and like 4 percent native american....
you can look at the test scores....
asians, and native americans score way way higher and they're minorities, and white also scores much higher about the same as asian.
i think i would know. im around them everyday.

Im not pinpointing any race out.
all i said was i hate ppl bring up the look who built that building that u use
or the roads.....
if it wasnt illegals doing it, other ppl would be doing it....
hello???

[PennyQuilts]

If it turns out (after we don't have illegals to do certain jobs) that we really suffer as a nation, I've no doubt there would be a groundswell of public support for some sort of legal, controlled way to have guest workers or something of that ilk. Absent proof of that, I feel like we are simply being subjected to just scare tactics.

I've posted before that I really get queasy at the notion of bringing in a servant class to do jobs we allegedly won't do. Last I checked, that is not what we do in America. This is supposed to be the land of opportunity. People shouldn't be here unless if the legal and controlled, and if they are here legally, they shouldn't be expected to "know their place" and do only menial jobs.

[CuatrodeMayo]

ahhh...
Im not much into architecture anymore....
im thinking about photography, or game design, web design, remodeling.
i do construction and remodeling with my dad....
well, you cannot tell me that there are larger percentage of Asian and White Gangsters or low scoring students is more than other races....
my school for example....
about 30 percent white, 30 percent black, 30 percent hipanic, 2 asian, and like 4 percent native american....
you can look at the test scores....
asians, and native americans score way way higher and they're minorities, and white also scores much higher about the same as asian.
i think i would know. im around them everyday.

Im not pinpointing any race out.
all i said was i hate ppl bring up the look who built that building that u use
or the roads.....
if it wasnt illegals doing it, other ppl would be doing it....
hello???

Off Topic:

2010:

Don't give up on Architecture...it is the gateway design education that will enable you to do all of the above. Architecture will open nearly every design door you want. I graduate in May and this is the best thing. as a designer, I have ever done.

Resume topic.

[Architect2010]

thanx...
i dunno.
i still have a few years b4 my college years start, so I have time
Im still really interested, but i want to have backup plans too...

but yeah, without illegals, of course we would lose a large portion of jobs,
a lot of smaller companies would lose their business and such....

illegals dont really bother me tho....
its just most of them dont really care or bother
to assimilate, learn customs and want to get an education
but the portion do, i think they're great and its really good inspiration...

But i guess im not old enuf to really have a say in all this, but ill put my opinion in. =]

[Superhyper]

God save us all from Clogging! Seriously though people, grow up. It is amazing to me that people who benefit from one of the best economies in the world can do nothing but bitch and complain about those who are helping to keep that economy as strong as it is. If we lose our cheap immigrant work force, China eats us alive, in a nutshell. Either the cheap jobs are here, where we at least keep some of the revenue flow from them, or they go somewhere else. Xenophobia and ignorance won't stop wal-mart from switching away from American suppliers as prices go up. Always Low Prices = Cheap Labor.

[Easy180]

ahhh...
Im not much into architecture anymore....
im thinking about photography, or game design, web design, remodeling.
i do construction and remodeling with my dad....
well, you cannot tell me that there are larger percentage of Asian and White Gangsters or low scoring students is more than other races....
my school for example....
about 30 percent white, 30 percent black, 30 percent hipanic, 2 asian, and like 4 percent native american....
you can look at the test scores....
asians, and native americans score way way higher and they're minorities, and white also scores much higher about the same as asian.
i think i would know. im around them everyday.

Im not pinpointing any race out.
all i said was i hate ppl bring up the look who built that building that u use
or the roads.....
if it wasnt illegals doing it, other ppl would be doing it....
hello???

Other than you right?...There are hundreds of thousands of people wishing they could get their hands on the extreme low pay - hard working jobs these immigrants do?

Not as if you or I are any different than our fellow Americans architecture....You scoff at doing those jobs and so does the rest of Americans

[Architect2010]

did you not just read it???
scroll up and read the 4th line.
"I do Construction and remodeling with my dad."
labor. low pay. long hours. HARD WORK.
I don't scoff at them... ^^^^^ ......=/

[Easy180]

did you not just read it???
scroll up and read the 4th line.
"I do Construction and remodeling with my dad."
labor. low pay. long hours. HARD WORK.
I don't scoff at them... ^^^^^ ......=/

Pretty sure your low pay isn't similar at all to their low pay architect

[Architect2010]

yeah probably....
but then there are tons of illegals that
get paid way more than me too...
but this has nothing to do with the fact that they
get paid low...
this is what im saying....

you said, "Hope you enjoy your home they built for you and the fruit juices you drink Major"

but they arent the only ones that build houses.
and if they dont build houses, everythings not gonna stop.
there other ppl that will take their place. (legals)
and the building of houses and the production of juice(=])
will continue without them. They arent the only ones that
know how to work.
thats my opinion you know?

[Midtowner]

I agree with what Mr. 2010 is saying. I find the slogan "they do jobs Americans won't do" to be insulting. Americans will do the work if it's offered at a fair price. Perhaps the cost of doing business will go up. Perhaps buildings will cost a little more.

In the long run, that is far cheaper for society than the burden that illegals place upon the education system, social services, the courts, the penal system, hospitals and the rest of society at large.

While many illegals work hard, there are still others who bring with them nothing more than crime, drugs and a need for welfare.

I agree with what other are saying here regarding the demand for cheap labor. I think there can be a win-win.

It all starts with a secure border. Without that, any immigration policy will be subverted by a steady stream of off-the-books immigrants. Solve that problem and a meaningful guest worker program can be readily implemented. Until such time, such reforms are symbolic at best.

[SoonerDave]

To use the notion that illegals provide cheap labor, so we should let 'em all in, is a classic ends-justifying-the-means rationalization.

Despite our sophisticated, contemporary, hip rhetoric that seat-of-the-pants, feel-good goverment is the way to go, we always have been and always will be a nation of laws, not men. Men can always come up with a justification not to do the right thing. The law keeps us from burning ourselves alive, because it forces deliberation and thought. Newsbites and "feeling" do the opposite.

The problem is simple, really. Immigrants that are here legally have carte blanche to operate within the context of what the law allows them. Individuals here illegally, from whatever nation, for whatever reason, have no such rights. Period.

The left, in their typical fashion, has turned this into an ad hominem attack under the guise of "racism" and "intolerance," which is laughably erroneous, but not totally unexpected. They have engendered the notion of entitlement to millions of Americans, so it is not surprising that they would continue to do so to individuals who have not a shred of legal standing to be in the country.

I know, I can hear it now; I'm a "hater." I'm a "racist." I'm "intolerant." I'm "paranoid." I don't understand reasons a, b, and c why we "have" to ignore the law, and manufacture new ones to excuse the fact that millions are here illegally to begin with.

Utter and unequivocal nonsense.

This nation welcomes anyone who desires to live in a free society, within the context of the laws that govern it. When you operate outside that law, you don't want to live in a free society, you want to operate within an anarchy of "whatever I want, whenever I want, because someone else told me I'm entitled to it."

And that very mentality, for the sake of the future of this country, has to stop.

-soonerdave

[Major]

Who thinks this law will ultimately be defeated?


zTruth : HB 1804 Oklahoma's Fight To Protect Its Citizens

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Who thinks this law will ultimately be defeated?


zTruth : HB 1804 Oklahoma's Fight To Protect Its Citizens

Oh crap...I clicked on that link before donning my tinfoil hat and it's infected me with the paranoia that it took me so long to get rid of after escaping from The John Birch Society's summer camp.







must...climb...bell....tower...






Kenny....Rogers....Is....A....Communist...

[Major]

Infected with cr**? If you took the time to read it, you would find most everything listed is what proponents or opponents of the law have said in the press. It's merely a listing of stuff as it happens with links to the source.

Speaking of cr**, it is quite amazing to see how much of it is dished out by the supporters of illegal foreign nationals. They actually belive they have as much rights as citizens! Who knows in the end they may prove to be more powerful that citizens and their law.

I would venture to say that the majority of us in Oklahoma don't like being bullied by outsiders who claim we are racist.

The law doesn't care what race you - only if you are here legally or not.

Do you have a problem with that?

[Easy180]

"The citizens, law enforcement and the government of Oklahoma. And to some extend the illegals who think they can run over us."

They are living large for sure...The job I landed a couple months back in banking I swear I was up against no less than 50 illegal immigrants

I think it was only because I was referred by someone that I landed it...It will only get worse over time...We will all have to go to Mexico to find jobs

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Speaking of cr**, it is quite amazing to see how much of it is dished out by the supporters of illegal foreign nationals. They actually belive they have as much rights as citizens! Who knows in the end they may prove to be more powerful that citizens and their law.

I would venture to say that the majority of us in Oklahoma don't like being bullied by outsiders who claim we are racist.

The law doesn't care what race you - only if you are here legally or not.

Do you have a problem with that?

lol..."Do you have a problem with that?"...I picture a snotty kid chesting up to another when I read that. Bullies indeed.

I don't think many people "support" illegal foreign nationals or think they should have equal rights. All I see is a bunch of political posturing and propaganda from both sides of an issue that smacks of "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" or as I like to say "pay no attention to health care, Social Security, the war in Iraq, the preparation for war in Iran, the incompetence in DC, the incompetence in NOLA, or the economy...Pay attention to the brown people because they're brown and bad and this is a wedge issue that will make people vote for me and ignore my actual opinions and track record"...And the media is just eating it up because it's controversial.

[PennyQuilts]

All I see is a bunch of political posturing and propaganda from both sides of an issue that smacks of "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" or as I like to say "pay no attention to health care, Social Security, the war in Iraq, the preparation for war in Iran, the incompetence in DC, the incompetence in NOLA, or the economy...Pay attention to the brown people because they're brown and bad and this is a wedge issue that will make people vote for me and ignore my actual opinions and track record"...And the media is just eating it up because it's controversial.

What a simplistic attack on your fellow citizens' ethics and ability to discern legitimate issues. To argue that I am so prejudiced against latinos that I would overlook other important issues is astonishingly irrational since the negative results of unchecked illegal immigration are so apparent. Or perhaps that is not what you intended to say? Perhaps you only meant "stupid" citizens who are going to give their vote to the one who most espouses hate?

Personally, I think this is one issue that does not lend itself to attempts to shame people into silence. You might just as well argue that people who believe murder should be illegal lack compassion.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

What a simplistic attack on your fellow citizens' ethics and ability to discern legitimate issues. To argue that I am so prejudiced against latinos that I would overlook other important issues is astonishingly irrational since the negative results of unchecked illegal immigration are so apparent. Or perhaps that is not what you intended to say? Perhaps you only meant "stupid" citizens who are going to give their vote to the one who most espouses hate?

Personally, I think this is one issue that does not lend itself to attempts to shame people into silence. You might just as well argue that people who believe murder should be illegal lack compassion.

I'm against illegal immigration. I don't think they should be allowed to stay as long as they're off the books. I also believe that it should be easier for them to come here (or stay here) legally because they obviously fill a need in the work force. But most of the people I've met get fired up over this "crisis", get fired up for EXACTLY the reason I highlighted in your post. The news told them that the Mexicans were stealing their jobs and making them pay more for everything. Just like the news told them that the Bird Flu is going to wipe out half the world, terrorists were going to set off dirty bombs all over the country (they went on and on about this for 6 months), Christians are persecuted, and Paris Hilton matters. None of which is true. It just makes news more exciting to say it. Celebrities are important and xenophobia is FUN! AMERICA!

I also love how every time I open my mouth about it, I'm a bully or I'm attempting to shame somebody into silence...Just like what you're doing to me. Nice irony there.

[PennyQuilts]

I'm not trying to shame you into silence. Where did that come from? I just wish people would stop attributing motives to my actions/opinions based on what THEY bring to the table.