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Thread: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

  1. #1

    Default Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Maybe not?

    Gentrification, that once-wonky, now common concept, is a term freighted with moral urgency, resentment, and guilt, because almost nobody in a high-cost city can avoid it. You’re either suffering its effects or inflicting them, often both at the same time. Unless you leave town altogether — as hundreds of thousands of people of all income brackets do every year — saying good-bye to one neighborhood makes you a newcomer in another. At its most basic, gentrification is what happens when newcomers to a neighborhood arrive with more income or education than those who already live there. At its most politically charged, it’s treated as a form of colonialism, ethnic cleansing, even genocide. Yet gentrification’s status as a great urban evil, a ravager of lives and destroyer of communities, is based as much on faith as on fact. Most scholarly research on the topic compares snapshots of cities and neighborhoods at different times but loses track of what happens to the actual people who live there.

    Now, a pair of studies has used Census micro-data and Medicaid records to track specific residents of both gentrifying and non-gentrifying neighborhoods — where they live, where their children go to school, when they move, and where they go. The researchers come up with some startling findings. In a paper published by the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, Quentin Brummet and Davin Reed say that urbanites move all the time, for countless reasons, and that gentrification has scant impact on that constant flow. Those who stay put as a neighborhood grows more affluent often see their quality of life rise and their children enjoy more opportunities. Those who leave rarely do worse.

    In a separate study at NYU by Kacie Dragan, Ingrid Ellen, and Sherry A. Glied, published by the National Bureau of Economic Research, the researchers used Medicaid records to track thousands of children from address to address, between 2009 to 2015, a period of boiling gentrification. They found that schoolkids who lived in neighborhoods that saw an influx of college graduates didn’t move away more often than their peers in less fluid areas. Taken together, the papers suggest that gentrification’s upsides for longtime residents not only exist but go a long way toward mitigating the pain it causes. Citing previous research, Brummet and Reed say that “exposure to higher-income neighborhoods has important benefits for low-income residents, such as improving the mental and physical health of adults and increasing the long-term educational attainment and earning of children,” Brummet and Reed assert.

    - http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...residents.html

  2. #2

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    what the
    Last edited by brian72; 08-11-2019 at 09:22 AM. Reason: bored

  3. #3

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by brian72 View Post
    what the
    Maybe not prevalent in OKC, but in many major cities gentrification is frowned upon by many as negatively impacting the lower class, causing homelessness, and displacing long time area residents.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    You must be careful when you base an opinion on so little information. If the article said hundreds of studies then you might have something. But two studies is not enough collected data. For every scenario there are millions of branches off of it. On top of that there are millions of scenarios. Then you get into who done the research. Only being two studies is a red flag for sure. Was the studies sponsored? Is there a major donor affiliated somehow? You can do the same research, with the same variables but have totally different outcomes simply by adding or subtracting a few years. You can do it by changing the age group criteria. There's many ways you can influence the outcome of any study. I know we want to believe these studies aren't biased, but in today's world that isn't the case.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Of course these are all great questions to ask and my stance is that I support gentrification and that has nothing to do with this article. I’ve always supported it and will continue to do so though I do think some developers can be greedy, they have to make money too.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    The problem is with framing it as "Gentrification: Yay! or Nay!"

    I mean, I know that's how internet discussions work, but the article is way more nuanced and balanced than that. It acknowledges the problems with gentrification and the pain it can cause. The conclusion is really more about how the short term benefits of gentrification often dissipate over time and that efforts to mitigate the negative effects have had the unintended effect of tempering those benefits in some cases or even compounding the problems.

    In the short term, gentrification makes neighborhoods more, not less, economically diverse and more racially integrated. The problem is that over time, those advantages dissipate, though not uniformly, and temporarily mixed neighborhoods become homogeneous again, and each new population in turn defends the turf it colonized. Diversity, not preservation, should be the goal.
    Most of the time it's about execution. Areas experience the effects of gentrification differently and, obviously, individuals within those communities are affected differently.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    It's rough when your property taxes shoot up each year and your income does not follow.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel View Post
    It's rough when your property taxes shoot up each year and your income does not follow.
    My brother you speak the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel View Post
    It's rough when your property taxes shoot up each year and your income does not follow.
    My brother you speak the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    lol "I support Gentrification"

  11. #11

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by EBAH View Post
    lol "I support Gentrification"
    what a stupid comment. Maybe provide something of value that adds to conversation next time.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    what a stupid comment. Maybe provide something of value that adds to conversation next time.
    Why make some elaborate comment to a trash statement. Is urban re-development good? It can be. Is beautification and streetscaping good? also can be. But gentrification is specifically a term used to describe wealthier blocks of people moving capital and themselves in to working class or lower income neighborhoods to specifically increase property values to generate wealth. It breaks up cultures and forces out long time residents. No, it isn't "good" you might as well just say "being rich and white is good". The study in this article has it's points, but yes gentrification DOES force out residents that can't afford the neighborhood anymore, and YES it happens here which is why many of my close friends are being pushed further and further west and away from their service jobs in the urban core, and YES it is caused by blockbusting real estate developers. Is it good for the city at large? perhaps, but to say "I like gentrification" is just a tone deaf insensitive thing that only a wealthier white man could say, and it's stupid.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by EBAH View Post
    Why make some elaborate comment to a trash statement. Is urban re-development good? It can be. Is beautification and streetscaping good? also can be. But gentrification is specifically a term used to describe wealthier blocks of people moving capital and themselves in to working class or lower income neighborhoods to specifically increase property values to generate wealth. It breaks up cultures and forces out long time residents. No, it isn't "good" you might as well just say "being rich and white is good". The study in this article has it's points, but yes gentrification DOES force out residents that can't afford the neighborhood anymore, and YES it happens here which is why many of my close friends are being pushed further and further west and away from their service jobs in the urban core, and YES it is caused by blockbusting real estate developers. Is it good for the city at large? perhaps, but to say "I like gentrification" is just a tone deaf insensitive thing that only a wealthier white man could say, and it's stupid.
    To your points, perhaps I should have been more clear. The revitalization of districts has been branded gentrification as to play the race card, which you have shown to be true, in order to further push back against it.

    Developers: Hey, we're taking a bunch of older buildings and restoring them to their former glory.

    Idiots: RACIST RACIST RACIST

    More idiots: Let's call it gentrification so we can add more stupid terms to our arsenal like hate facts and environmental racism. No doubt you would use terms like that. I'll take a step out and make that assumption.

    Spare me the crap.

    What urban redevelopment do you consider good and what isn't? Making hypothetical and vague statements left open to interpretation is better than my "trash statements" how? What do you consider gentrification? Is a portion of town that was already "rich and white" and redeveloped not gentrification because the horrible white man was already there? Or what about a district that had minorities but they could no longer afford the demand that existed for renovated units so they were pushed out by lack of money and somehow racism is the culprit again? Or what about areas that experience "gentrification" and still have a healthy multicultural makeup; are those redeveloped areas not considered gentrification?

    So to make sure I understand your position correctly, gentrification is a fancy word for "racist development" and anyone that supports what you define as gentrification is a racist? Or maybe I am misunderstanding you.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    To be completely honest, I was unaware that the word gentrification is actually used as a term to displace poorer people. So as such and I will admit when I am wrong, I don't support gentrification. I support what development would be considered gentrification but by that definition accounts for such a large portion of development how do you plan to oppose that or how can you support new development?

    the process of repairing and rebuilding homes and businesses in a deteriorating area (such as an urban neighborhood) accompanied by an influx of middle-class or affluent people and that often results in the displacement of earlier, usually poorer residents

    - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...gentrification
    no mentioning of minorities but by your account minorities are poor so if you view them as that way like Biden than I guess your analysis would be correct.

    Another interpretation:

    Gentrification. It’s one of those words that gets thrown around in the media and casual conversation. It’s a diagnosis slapped onto the opening of a funky coffee shop or the closing of a well-loved store. It can mean whole communities displaced, significant racial change, and increased homelessness.

    But what exactly is gentrification? And is it always a bad thing?

    A definition of gentrification:

    Gentrification is the phenomenon of affluent folks moving into less wealthy neighborhoods, renovating homes and attracting new businesses. In the process, property values increase, rents go up, and poorer neighborhood residents are displaced.

    The term is defined by a significant demographic shift — an increase in the number of affluent residents in a nabe and a decrease in the number of poorer residents.

    Or, as summed-up by the Centers for Disease Control: “Gentrification is often defined as the transformation of neighborhoods from low value to high value.”
    Again no mention of race here but hey I guess if we look and spin things hard enough we can make anything racist!

    https://www.brownstoner.com/brooklyn...auses-effects/

    PS, no doubt are POC are adversely affected but lets stop parading around a pointing finger and accusing others of making statements you consider to be trash because you consider something racist that isn't. I am the furthest thing from racist and it sh!t like that which pushes me away from democrats.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Gentrification is more a force of nature than a system of oppression. It's not a system. Are developers, whose entire existence depends on buying low and selling high supposed to just stop what they do? It's the bulls and the bears, not systemic racism.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    If white people move out of a neighborhood, it's White Flight, and that's bad.

    If white people move into a neighborhood, it's Gentrification, and that's bad too.


  17. #17

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    I don’t want anyone to feel bad for me— I am not rich by any means and I’m facing homelessness in Los Angeles with the only outlet being a refuge in another state(Oklahoma) I do love but have no future in due to my career. I only say this to provide some insight and an alternative to the notion that those who support the revitalization of neighborhoods to what some might consider gentrification are wealthy white men is bullish!t. But yes I’m white, so I meet that criteria. The horror.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    I live in one of the older neighborhoods in Mustang. Many Farmers have sold out to developers. McMansion neighborhoods popping up everywhere. Newer Schools being built for the Children of these up and coming Parents. I'm 63 and on disability. House payment went up $100 due to new tax rate and escrow. It's scary when you get to the "Pills or Bills" plateau. Gentrification effects lower income people of all races.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel View Post
    I live in one of the older neighborhoods in Mustang. Many Farmers have sold out to developers. McMansion neighborhoods popping up everywhere. Newer Schools being built for the Children of these up and coming Parents. I'm 63 and on disability. House payment went up $100 due to new tax rate and escrow. It's scary when you get to the "Pills or Bills" plateau. Gentrification effects lower income people of all races.
    just in case you didn't already know, when you turn 65 you can apply to have the county assessor freeze your property's valuation.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Poor people have little defense against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Anything that happens to them, from a car breaking down to a bus route being changed, can potentially cause great harm. A wealthy neighbor moves in next door? Well maybe your rent goes up. Or maybe the crappy little diner you used to enjoy is replaced by some trendy hipster restaurant that charges 5 times as much.

    You can always point to a poor person who was harmed by something. The city changes a bus route? Here's a guy who was harmed by it. The city doesn't change a bus route? Here's a guy who was harmed by it. If you're a poor renter and suddenly your apartment doubles in price, it sucks but you have to move. But if you're a poor guy who actually owns his home, and your property value doubles? Well that's wonderful. Sell your house, make a big profit, and then move into a place that's better than where you started.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Man I just loved all the inner city neighborhoods and districts when they were full of crack houses and abandoned buildings. Wish all that nasty gentrification hadn’t come along with all of its renovations and nice restaurants to ruin all the blight! I miss it so much! WHAT HAVE WE DONE?!?!?

  22. #22

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by hoya View Post
    If white people move out of a neighborhood, it's White Flight, and that's bad.

    If white people move into a neighborhood, it's Gentrification, and that's bad too.

    Hahaha exactly.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by phialpha View Post
    man i just loved all the inner city neighborhoods and districts when they were full of crack houses and abandoned buildings. Wish all that nasty gentrification hadn’t come along with all of its renovations and nice restaurants to ruin all the blight! I miss it so much! What have we done?!?!?
    racist!!!!!

    In this day in age I have to add this /sarc

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    just in case you didn't already know, when you turn 65 you can apply to have the county assessor freeze your property's valuation.
    I did not know that. Thank you very much. I need to start looking into this.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Is Gentrification Really Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    racist!!!!!

    In this day in age I have to add this /sarc

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