Drugs: Supply and Demand

[bucktalk]

It is odd to me that we hear much about the 'war on drugs' and how the 'wall' will keep drugs out of our country and yet these types of discussions are always on the 'supply' side. I guess, in theory, some say, 'we need to stop the supply side' of drugs.

But isn't the larger problem the 'demand' side? The only reason the supply side is a problem is because the demand side drives the problem. Isn't the real problem the demand and not supply? And if that's true it seems like money and efforts need to address the demand side. Is the demand side an easy solution? No. But to change the drug problems we're facing long term we must approach ways to help the demand side. This is our only hope imo.

[citywokchinesefood]

It wouldn’t be a bad idea to just legalize everything and sell it at Pharmacies. That way we take care of the “demand” side by supplying it legally. Good idea OP!

[OkiePoke]

Look no further than Portugal.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...orld-copied-it

[Dob Hooligan]

As my sainted father used to tell me "Studies have shown than any mammal will voluntarily intoxicate, given the opportunity". Our puritanical, protestant society has made intoxication bad. Like fornication, you can outlaw it all you want, but people are still going to do it. The natural urge is too strong.

[Plutonic Panda]

I think the majority of drugs need to be legalized. Tax it. Use the money to offer services for rehab and education. Legalizing it would bring new revenue, prevent the substances from being cut with other drugs the user is unaware of which often leads to O/D, and would likely prevent some violence.

If people want to inject it into their body it’s their choice, IMO.

[TheSteveHunt]

Just found out my sister has been on hydrocodone 10+ yrs to help treat her hypocondria..

dad's been on oxy 15 yrs for what was once mild back pain....

they never wanted this crap!
I want to punch their Dr!

[MadMonk]

I don't care what someone puts in their own body as long as it does not endanger someone else from doing so. Once you start robbing people for your fix money or ramming your car into people while high, you're a societal problem and need to be removed.

So, the prevention is for the protection of innocent victims of drug users (and somewhat for the individual's own ignorant choices, but you can only protect people from themselves up to a point).

[mugofbeer]

I think the majority of drugs need to be legalized. Tax it. Use the money to offer services for rehab and education. Legalizing it would bring new revenue, prevent the substances from being cut with other drugs the user is unaware of which often leads to O/D, and would likely prevent some violence.

If people want to inject it into their body it’s their choice, IMO.

I'm sorry and I'm not trying to offend but this is one of the most ignorant, short-sighted statements I've seen on here in a while. What people inject into their bodies effects everyone, not just that person. Do you want your brakes repaired by someone who just took heroine? Do you want to have your heart operated by an addict? Do you want to be out driving on the highways when 1/3 of the drivers are on coke or oxy? Yeah! Give my hard earned money to an investment manager who is on meth. Sure, it's OK of my kids teachers are drunk. Oh, it's OK if your daughter is strung out during her pregnancy. I can think of 1000 reasons why your logic is nothing more than seeing only to the tip of your nose. Not everything is revenue driven - sure you could tax it but the cost would be ridiculous.

[jedicurt]

I'm sorry and I'm not trying to offend but this is one of the most ignorant, short-sighted statements I've seen on here in a while. What people inject into their bodies effects everyone, not just that person. Do you want your brakes repaired by someone who just took heroine? Do you want to have your heart operated by an addict? Do you want to be out driving on the highways when 1/3 of the drivers are on coke or oxy? Yeah! Give my hard earned money to an investment manager who is on meth. Sure, it's OK of my kids teachers are drunk. Oh, it's OK if your daughter is strung out during her pregnancy. I can think of 1000 reasons why your logic is nothing more than seeing only to the tip of your nose. Not everything is revenue driven - sure you could tax it but the cost would be ridiculous.

umm... it can be legalized and still regulated... someone can't change your brakes while intoxicated, as they would get fired... someone can't operate on your heart while intoxicated... that is a major problem if done... can't drive on the highways, probably shouldn't be an investment manager while on the clock doing it (although it probably happens sometimes). yep... can't be drunk at school... shouldn't drink during pregnancy... yet alcohol is completely legal

so if we are going to talk about ignorant short-sighted statements....

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm sorry and I'm not trying to offend but this is one of the most ignorant, short-sighted statements I've seen on here in a while. What people inject into their bodies effects everyone, not just that person. Do you want your brakes repaired by someone who just took heroine? Do you want to have your heart operated by an addict? Do you want to be out driving on the highways when 1/3 of the drivers are on coke or oxy? Yeah! Give my hard earned money to an investment manager who is on meth. Sure, it's OK of my kids teachers are drunk. Oh, it's OK if your daughter is strung out during her pregnancy. I can think of 1000 reasons why your logic is nothing more than seeing only to the tip of your nose. Not everything is revenue driven - sure you could tax it but the cost would be ridiculous.

No offense taken. I’ll certainly have a response to this when I get some free time.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm sorry and I'm not trying to offend but this is one of the most ignorant, short-sighted statements I've seen on here in a while. What people inject into their bodies effects everyone, not just that person. Do you want to be out driving on the highways when 1/3 of the drivers are on coke or oxy? Yeah! Give my hard earned money to an investment manager who is on meth. Sure, it's OK of my kids teachers are drunk. Oh, it's OK if your daughter is strung out during her pregnancy. I can think of 1000 reasons why your logic is nothing more than seeing only to the tip of your nose. Not everything is revenue driven - sure you could tax it but the cost would be ridiculous.

Most people on drugs keep to themselves. You assume what? Most meth or heroine users go hurt people? There are plenty of completely sober people as well as people under the influence of completely legal substances so unless you have data that shows a majority of drugs users hurt others due to the drug their on, you have no argument here.

Do you want your brakes repaired by someone who just took heroine? Do you want to have your heart operated by an addict

Talk about fear mongering 101! Do you want your brakes worked on by someone who is drunk? Do you want your heart operated on by a surgeon that is overworked and half asleep?

Do you want to be out driving on the highways when 1/3 of the drivers are on coke or oxy?

https://www.madd.org/statistics/

More fear mongering.

Which is pretty much all you did. Your post seem representative of that of a scared person or someone who is just religious and wants to scare others.

Here are just a few of many articles that show that what I agree with is more than me not seeing further than the tip of my nose:

https://www.heyheyrenee.com/wp-conte...ize_It_All.pdf

http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/drugten.html

https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-y...ing#.MlfJPsU0D

https://reason.com/blog/2018/08/01/l...rvard-economis

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/mar...mEK/story.html

[mugofbeer]

Sorry, I don't buy it. If drugs are made freely available, that means people are consuming drugs. Drugs don't leave you system the moment you stop consuming them. People consume them and go to their jobs. I live in Colorado and I've seen many a person at my old employer either come to work stoned or get stoned at lunch because they think people can't tell. I've sent several home because it was obvious they were under the influence and then expected to handle people's money. I've had two very good peer colleagues who because alcoholics and tried to conduct their jobs under the influence. I've seen another kill himself because he was about to be fired because he tested positive for Oxy for the 3rd time - he simply couldn't bust his habit and it cost him his family, marriage and his job. I've seen it first-hand.

Oh, no, I am neither religious nor scared.

I just see legal drugs, people consume legal drugs, people go to work on legal drugs and try to function under the influence of legal drugs. Those jobs include the types I outlined and many, many more. What in the world do you think is going to happen in a legal drug US? People are going to use them!

As for articles, the Boston Globe article has a pay wall, I already agreed tax revenue's would increase but so would costs of treatment, the US isn't Portugal and Portugal is an entirely different country and society than the US. One assertion is that it will take the black market out of the equation. This is proven in Colorado to not be true. Pot is legal, it's not over-taxed but the Feds bust house after house after house for illegal grow operations. A couple of years ago, they arrested Columbians in a house in a very posh suburb full of drug money and guns. I've outlined this in other threads.

Colorado's Democrat held state government just dropped a bill that would allow supervised injection sites in the state for lack of support - even from Democrats. Supporters of the bill looked at the program in Vancouver, BC for success because there are dozens of anecdotal stories of people they have helped and they also push their "customers" to treatment programs. However, to look further into their problem, since 2010, 7 years after the Insite facilities opened, drug overdose deaths have increased 7X. In the US in the same approximate time period, accidental drug deaths have increased about 5x over the same period. Both horrific results and hardly a win for anyone - however, it points out that even trying to provide safe places, clean injection sites, clean syringes, help with addiction, etc., people continued to consume and potentially consumed at a higher rate than in the US.

I simply look at human nature. If people are allowed to consume without risk, they will consume and they will either live as homeless or they will go to their jobs under the influence. This usually involves driving a car and actually doing their job.

[Plutonic Panda]

The way I see it, people are going to do it anyways if they want to and it's not like we're talking about crimes such as murder, vandalism, theft, etc... This is something someone is doing to themselves. You will always have bad apples but we are missing out on tax revenue while people are dying in the streets using drugs that are cut with things they are unaware that are in them. Sure there might still be a black market but it will be a hell of a lot less prevalent than it is now.

We'll just have to agree to disagree at this point. I can see your points, but I still stand by pro legalization. It's good to have these conversations and some compromise will be had, but something has to be done because what we're doing now isn't working.

PS, I heard Colorado is looking to decriminalize mushrooms... did that bill go anywhere?

[mugofbeer]

What I wish could be done in this country is for places to test the ideas and have real non-political dissemination of facts and results. I think the Pot issue has been about the closest thing I've seen to test cases and so far, it's worked pretty well. One thing I didn't mention above, specific to pot, is while pot use increases, alcohol use definitely has decreased. People light up rather than get drunk which is less dangerous. Where I have to draw the line is the more mind altering drugs.

Yes, mushrooms are being considered by the city. Still in consideration phase.

[Stew]

I'm sorry and I'm not trying to offend but this is one of the most ignorant, short-sighted statements I've seen on here in a while. What people inject into their bodies effects everyone, not just that person. Do you want your brakes repaired by someone who just took heroine? Do you want to have your heart operated by an addict? Do you want to be out driving on the highways when 1/3 of the drivers are on coke or oxy? Yeah! Give my hard earned money to an investment manager who is on meth. Sure, it's OK of my kids teachers are drunk. Oh, it's OK if your daughter is strung out during her pregnancy. I can think of 1000 reasons why your logic is nothing more than seeing only to the tip of your nose. Not everything is revenue driven - sure you could tax it but the cost would be ridiculous.

oh please that’s not even the most ignorant comment posted on here today. Case in point see the quoted comment above (of course no offense intended).

[citywokchinesefood]

The point is drugs are legally available for abuse currently. Caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol are the big three we all know and love. I am sure you don’t want your doctor to be drunk, how about working with someone angrily jonesing for a cigarette, or the 35 year old woman that has a heart attack from a Red Bull diet? Heroin, cocaine, etc. really are not all that different. Eliminate the black market and you eliminate the majority of the crime and violence associated with narcotics. Portugal as mentioned earlier in this thread is a perfect example. Further, the US legalizing narcotics would go a long ways towards stabilizing central and South American countries.

[Uptowner]

His is a case of drug hysteria. The president is on the tv telling you all the pain and suffering, all the danger, is coming over the border from “an invasion from he south.”

The reality is: it’s your sister, it’s your father, it’s your sweet old granny that are desperately addicted to pharmaceuticals. Unchecked. For years. I would be more worried about my granny on pills for her back changing my brakes than whatever farcical reality the fearmonger brought up.

[Dob Hooligan]

Seems to me that we have spent a century criminalizing drug use and what we have learned is that people will STILL do drugs. Regardless of financial ruin, imprisonment and social stigma, Americans chase that dragon just like the rest of humanity. America has become a drug obsessed society. We use more drugs than any country on earth ever has. Legal drugs dominate our lives and we are drug dependent.

[bchris02]

I'm all for legalizing marijuana. Other drugs are a tougher sell. I do think the current policy isn't working though and while I don't think hard drugs should necessarily be legalized, I think we need to take a different approach to combat them.