OKC's might have beens...

[Plutonic Panda]

• Disney Mid-America

Was that ever for real? I know Dallas at once had a proposed shopping mall by Disney that was going to be like the Mall of America but it died for whatever reason.

[baralheia]

For me, two of the biggest "might have been" projects were if the Market Circle proposal for the Boulevard had come to fruition, and (channeling Tom Elmore for a second here) if we hadn't relocated I-40 through the platforms and yard at Union Station - with a few rail alignment modifications to enable north-south traffic, that could have become quite the transportation hub for OKC, with much more available space to dedicate to various transit modes and enabling easier east-west passenger rail traffic, too. The Bricktown Towers project could have been quite significant for the city as well, had it not been a big farce.

[baralheia]

Wasn’t Tulsa slated to get a nuclear power plant as well?

I really wished that would have happened.

Yeah, the Black Fox Nuclear Power Plant. Public Service Company of Oklahoma (PSO) proposed it in '73, and then after intense public backlash, the plan was abandoned 9 years later in 1982. Some work had already begun on the site, but not much aside from rudimentary roads, a rail spur, and dirt work for the basements of the reactor buildings.

[rezman]

Was that not the proposed Black Fox Nuclear plant at Inola back in the 70’s ?
I remember travelling I-35 and seeing the signs that said “Stop the Black Fox Project”.

[Jersey Boss]

Can the Eastern Flyer be mentioned?

[BG918]

Yeah, the Black Fox Nuclear Power Plant. Public Service Company of Oklahoma (PSO) proposed it in '73, and then after intense public backlash, the plan was abandoned 9 years later in 1982. Some work had already begun on the site, but not much aside from rudimentary roads, a rail spur, and dirt work for the basements of the reactor buildings.

You can see the Black Fox site on Google Maps, along the Verdigris River near Inola

https://goo.gl/maps/VjHqB8cNGst

[baralheia]

Can the Eastern Flyer be mentioned?

The Eastern Flyer is still a possibility... though a LOT would need to change... it'd have to be with a different passenger carrier and with a shakeup in leadership at the state and city level. The passenger carrier that was selected to run the line, Iowa Pacific Holdings, is reportedly on life support and barely able to pay their bills. Also, Mayor Bynum has come on the record and said he thinks rail is "outmoded" and, as a result, is stalling on necessary improvements in Tulsa to get passenger trains into downtown. In OKC, no work has begun on a study to determine the best way to rehabilitate the former interchange track that connects the BNSF rail viaduct to UP's Harter Yard, a critical link to be able to get to the Stillwater Central line to Tulsa. This is despite the City Council passing a resolution over 2 years ago that authorizes funding for it. To add insult to injury, state-level funding for such an endeavor is practically nonexistant, especially considering that ODOT is often seen as an enemy to passenger rail expansion in this state.

I badly want to see the Eastern Flyer begin service... but at this point, at least from what public info I can find, this effort appears close to death.

[ctchandler]

Here's one we don't hear about much. TG&Y stores were big across the south and based in OKC. They were in the process of changing from a "5 and dime" type of store to a Super-center (like and older version of Wal Mart). When McRory (I think) bought them out and destroyed the chain, it allowed Wal Mart to become what it is today. If TG&Y had been well-managed and not sold out, they were already well on their way to being Wal Mart.

MOB,
I don't know your age, but I shopped at TG&Y often and they were not a discount store in any way. Unfortunately, Walmart would have destroyed them. McRory was the cause of their demise but it was inevitable.
C. T.

[mugofbeer]

cthandler: beg to differ. I also shopped there at Shephard Mall and several other locations and where there were TG&Y Super Centers, they were most definitely moving towards what would become like the original Wal Mart model. Look up TG&Y stores and some of the info written on it. They definitely were in the discount space with their ill-fated Aim-for the-best. At the time the chain closed, it was far larger than Wal Mart.

One interesting point is that a certain Mr. Green was a store manager at Britton Rd and May who later went on to own Hobby Lobby.

[Bunty]

Wasn’t Tulsa slated to get a nuclear power plant as well?

I really wished that would have happened.

Near Tulsa. Stopping it from happening was one of the biggest news stories in Oklahoma during 1979.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state...609642975.html

[Bunty]

MOB,
I don't know your age, but I shopped at TG&Y often and they were not a discount store in any way. Unfortunately, Walmart would have destroyed them. McRory was the cause of their demise but it was inevitable.
C. T.

Wal-Mart destroyed about everybody, except for Target. Target and Wal-Mart's different routes for growth worked out good for both of them

[ctchandler]

cthandler: beg to differ. I also shopped there at Shephard Mall and several other locations and where there were TG&Y Super Centers, they were most definitely moving towards what would become like the original Wal Mart model. Look up TG&Y stores and some of the info written on it. They definitely were in the discount space with their ill-fated Aim-for the-best. At the time the chain closed, it was far larger than Wal Mart.

One interesting point is that a certain Mr. Green was a store manager at Britton Rd and May who later went on to own Hobby Lobby.

MOB,
Just based on prices alone, they were not even close to Walmart or Gibsons. I shopped at the super center in Edmond, then we moved South and we shopped at the super center at 74th and Penn. What they had over the Gibsons and Walmart was mainly quality (in my opinion) but if you priced the stores using comparable items, Walmart beat them handily. I'm not being critical of them, I preferred shopping there. And by the way, I have a lot of respect for Mr. Green, but does he own any "discount" stores? I can answer that, no he doesn't. He had a great idea for a concept and took it to a new level. There was some competition but his stores were/are special. By the way, I wouldn't argue that they were planning to become a "discount" direction, I think it was just too little and too late.
C. T.

[drinner-okc]

How far back you want to go? Braniff Airways (which later had the different colored airplanes) first flight was from Oklahoma City to Tulsa in like 1930. They grew, both in routes and by absorbing competition. In the later 30's or early 40's they had multiple international flights. They wanted a daily flight direct from Mexico City to Oklahoma City and asked the Oklahoma City Airport to have a customs agent available 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Oklahoma City said that was too expensive, Dallas Tx said they would provide that and the headquarters of Braniff moved to Dallas, Tx Remember for a long time Braniff was the largest employer in Dallas, and had an airline pilot training center that trained most of the jet pilots in the world. All lost for the annual salary of one (additional) customs agent. Why do I know this? my dad worked for Braniff in OKC & Miami FL for 20 years before his untimely death. Every time we flew to OKC thru Dallas, he'd say 'all this could've been in Oklahoma City & I'd never have left home'
Now to the 50's Does anyone remember car racing at Taft Stadium? There was a brick racetrack around the football field. from the early 40's they raced midgets, smaller versions of the cars raced at Indianapolis. many drivers from the central United States learned to drive open wheel cars at Taft Stadium. As the cars got larger & faster they were too fast for Taft. The City had built a dirt 1/2 mile track at the fairgrounds but the route thru OKC to the Indy 500 was over (Now I loved and MISS the Fairgrounds Speedway) There were efforts for a paved track, that never materialized.
In the 70's we had a brand new 1/4 mile NHRA drag strip the NIMBY people killed.
in the 90's the City chased off the Street Rod Nationals (an annual event) to Louisville Ky, 10,000 to 11,000 participants in town for a week. (with their families)

[traxx]

Was that ever for real? I know Dallas at once had a proposed shopping mall by Disney that was going to be like the Mall of America but it died for whatever reason.

I think it was more rumor and speculation than anything. There was a thread about it somewhere on here years back. My post was kinda made in jest.

I always thought the Bricktown Towers thing was just a "This is the kinda thing that could go here" rather than an actual proposal. I never considered it anything that was definitely going to happen.

[ctchandler]

How far back you want to go? Braniff Airways (which later had the different colored airplanes) first flight was from Oklahoma City to Tulsa in like 1930. They grew, both in routes and by absorbing competition. In the later 30's or early 40's they had multiple international flights. They wanted a daily flight direct from Mexico City to Oklahoma City and asked the Oklahoma City Airport to have a customs agent available 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Oklahoma City said that was too expensive, Dallas Tx said they would provide that and the headquarters of Braniff moved to Dallas, Tx Remember for a long time Braniff was the largest employer in Dallas, and had an airline pilot training center that trained most of the jet pilots in the world. All lost for the annual salary of one (additional) customs agent. Why do I know this? my dad worked for Braniff in OKC & Miami FL for 20 years before his untimely death. Every time we flew to OKC thru Dallas, he'd say 'all this could've been in Oklahoma City & I'd never have left home'
Now to the 50's Does anyone remember car racing at Taft Stadium? There was a brick racetrack around the football field. from the early 40's they raced midgets, smaller versions of the cars raced at Indianapolis. many drivers from the central United States learned to drive open wheel cars at Taft Stadium. As the cars got larger & faster they were too fast for Taft. The City had built a dirt 1/2 mile track at the fairgrounds but the route thru OKC to the Indy 500 was over (Now I loved and MISS the Fairgrounds Speedway) There were efforts for a paved track, that never materialized.
In the 70's we had a brand new 1/4 mile NHRA drag strip the NIMBY people killed.
in the 90's the City chased off the Street Rod Nationals (an annual event) to Louisville Ky, 10,000 to 11,000 participants in town for a week. (with their families)

I flew Braniff several times and even though I never saw them I was well aware of the racing at Taft stadium.
C. T.

[bchris02]

The OG&E Towers thread made me think of something not talked about much anymore. That is the Milhaus proposal for the residential tower on the south portion of the Stage Center site. The proposal wasn't as sexy as what Clayco was proposing, but it was more realistic for a market the size of OKC. If the city would have voted in favor of the Milhaus proposal for the south side of the Stage Center site, it might have actually been built and there would actually be high-rise residential facing MBG.

[Pete]

This was the Milhaus proposal:

[Plutonic Panda]

This is kind of veering away from the topic, but whatevs. This 1.7 billion dollar automobile plant was picked for Huntsville. What does Huntsville have that OKC doesn’t?

http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...ma-report-says

[traxx]

This is kind of veering away from the topic, but whatevs. This 1.7 billion dollar automobile plant was picked for Huntsville. What does Huntsville have that OKC doesn’t?

http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...ma-report-says

I agree. I wish OK could get a car plant or two.

To answer your question, though, I think Toyota already has another plant there and infrastructure.

[rezman]

I doubt we will ever attract another auto assembly plant, or any other similar industry after the screwings GM took after locating here on the promise of a 20 year property tax exemption, only to have it pulled out from under them, and then receiving a tax bill in the millions of dollars afterwards.

[Laramie]

National Hockey League expansion franchise in 1997; NHL or NBA?

Nationwide Insurance Company of Columbus helped secure that final spot; Oklahoma City got left out in the cold despite OKC's arena plan which the NHL felt that OKC couldn't build an NHL ready arena on an $89 million budget. Ron Norick was contacted on Friday to get a press conference ready for the following Monday; then the news came that Columbus was awarded that franchise. OKC's NHL franchise were to be called the Oklahoma RedHawks.

The Columbus Bluejackets: Nationwide announced on May 31, 1997, that it would finance the $150-million arena. Subsequently, on June 25, 1997, the NHL announced that Columbus would receive a new franchise.[4] Afterwards a "Name the Team" contest was held with the help from Wendy's throughout central Ohio during the month of August 1997. Out of 14,000 submitted entries, the franchise with help from the NHL narrowed the 14,000 entries down to 10 names. Then with the information received from owner McConnell regarding Columbus' history, the League and the franchise narrowed the list of potential names down to two – Blue Jackets and Justice. The former, which referenced Ohio's contributions to the American Civil War, was eventually announced as the team name in November.--Wikipedia

Oklahoma City's arena was originally built to attract an NHL franchise.

Mission accomplished
More flirtations with the NHL followed. Norick agrees those early rejections helped Oklahoma City in its eventual bid for the NBA...

...“Rejection makes you sharper and makes you focus in on what they're telling you,” Norick said. “If they're saying you're not big enough, or there needs to be a different circumstance, listen to them — they know what they're talking about. I appreciate the NHL knew what to recognize in our proposal that fell short and told us.”

It was a moment when Bennett had to face a city and explain it wasn't deemed ready for entrance into the major leagues. It's a tale that begins with a city dismissed as a “small, Southwestern town” making an unlikely play not for the NBA but a National Hockey League team.

Oklahoma City's NBA success story rooted in NHL failure: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-nba...rticle/3683005

Could Oklahoma City have supported the NHL as well as it supports the NBA?

ESPN NHL & NBA attendance:

NHL attendance--Columbus: http://www.espn.com/nhl/attendance
NBA attendance--Oklahoma City: http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance

[Laramie]

Martin Luther King Jr.,

Calvary Baptist Church, Oklahoma City

About 1,500 filled the church to hear the words of the widely recognized civil rights leader.

When he was told that Oklahoma City youth were planning to boycott downtown stores to desegregate restaurants, King commended the action, saying such efforts had been successful in Nashville.

This was not King's first visit to Oklahoma City, though. He had been to Calvary Baptist church before. In 1953, after finishing Crozier Theological Seminary in Pennsylvania, King preached at the church but was not retained as its pastor.

Martin Luther King Jr., Day, Oklahoma City

Martin Luther King Jr., ties to Oklahoma City:

Before the "dream," there was Oklahoma City: http://m.newsok.com/article/5443045

When King addressed the church, the members reacted with enthusiasm. The Oklahoma City church was used to launch civil rights protests throughout Oklahoma City by the late 1950s, using sit-ins to force restaurants and other businesses to end discrimination.

Oklahoma City was "ripe" for King's ideas, Owens said.

"But we didn't know his potential at that point, even though he showed signs then of being a dynamic speaker," Owens said.

Slain Civil Rights Leader Remembered in City Youngest Celebrants Recite King's Words: http://newsok.com/article/2527188

[traxx]

I doubt we will ever attract another auto assembly plant, or any other similar industry after the screwings GM took after locating here on the promise of a 20 year property tax exemption, only to have it pulled out from under them, and then receiving a tax bill in the millions of dollars afterwards.

Yeah, I'm sure the wild mismanagement of GM had absolutely nothing to do with shutting down the OK plant as well as others. GM is only still in existence because of the taxpayers. Although, I don't really see any changes or lessons learned; I'm thinking GM will face extinction again within the next 20 years.

[rezman]

The reasons for them shutting down are another story, but big industry hasn’t forgotten about what was done to GM by the state of Oklahoma.

[Jersey Boss]

I thought it was an Oklahoma County issue, not State of Oklahoma issue. One would also think GM legal would have vetted the tax break before sighning off on the deal.