Can Bricktown support 3 coffee shops?

[metro]

I was wondering what people's thoughts were on if Bricktown can support 3 coffee shops. We already have Uncommon Grounds next door to CityWalk. Then just around the corner at 222 E. Main another coffee shop plans on opening up Winter 07', I don't know if that means in the next month or so (presumably) or next December? Also as we know, Starbucks will be locating in the Centennial.

[BailJumper]

Regardless of whether or not Bricktown can successfully support 3, 4, or 5 coffee shops - give someone some money and they will often fall for "if you build it in Bricktown they will come."

Personally, I think I coffe shop would make it if it was situated near much needed retail. Of course a really successful coffee shop would be the financial death to others in the area.

[brianinok]

Not because it's a Starbucks, but because of location, I think the Starbucks will be the most successful. It has much more foot traffic (by the canal and theater) than the other two, plus it will have residences sitting on top of it.

[NE Oasis]

Not so much because of the Starbucks brand (I prefer the Panera house latte) but multiple coffee shops can thrive. In Seattle there are actually shops thriving across the street from each other because folks don't like long lines (sometimes as many a 3 people). All is takes is a quality product and fair price.

[metro]

Not so much because of the Starbucks brand (I prefer the Panera house latte) but multiple coffee shops can thrive. In Seattle there are actually shops thriving across the street from each other because folks don't like long lines (sometimes as many a 3 people). All is takes is a quality product and fair price.

Yes I know, but as others have said the Seattle model doesn't really apply. Seattle is much more urban #1, and #2 it is the coffee mecca of the US with the majority of people coffee drinkers with refined palettes and often do coffee tastings. There is one building in Seattle with 3 Starbucks in it and another one across the street. We're not Seattle nor close to their mindset on coffee!!

[BailJumper]

The problem is that week nights are often very slow and rent is still quite high. I don't think a Seattle, NYC etc. model applies to Bricktown.

Now that may all change in a couple of years when/if there is a stable base of residential traffic in the area.

[Prunepicker]

Which Bricktown coffee shop do you believe the be the better of the three?

Prunepicker

[Prunepicker]

Where's Brew Ha Ha's?

Prunepicker

[jbrown84]

I think they will be fine. The most at risk is the one opening on Main, away from most of the action, but it could potentially draw a lot from Deep Deuce residents.

[BDP]

Now that may all change in a couple of years when/if there is a stable base of residential traffic in the area.

I agree. It's all about density and the areas population should only grow in the next few years and this year's growth will be very big, percentage wise.

The starbucks should do well as it piggy backs off the theater crowd. I think the others can do well, but they will have to generate more of their own traffic and be destination coffee houses.

[jbrown84]

Uncommon Grounds I'm sure has a regular customer base, or it would not have survived this long north of Sheridan. The new one seems more at risk. It will really depend on if it's good enough to draw Deep Deucers and eventually Maywood Parkers, etc.

[dismayed]

I don't know how Uncommon Grounds manages to hang in there. It seems like every time I go there I'm the only one there. It's cool that they are managing though.

[HOT ROD]

hm, where is this?

I only know of two starbucks across the street in downtown Vancouver, and more than just one intersection. Downtown Van is MUCH more urban than Seattle and has 10 times the people; so I could see (and do see) the plethora of coffee (among everything else) there, but not like that in Seattle to my knowledge.

The "Seattle model" might not apply to most of OKC, but I think it does apply in downtown OKC; where it's just as urban tho a bit smaller than it is in Seattle. Downtown Sea area might have 20K residents but none of them live in the CBD - which I guess is what METRO is referring to the three starbucks is.??

Cities MUCH larger than Seattle dont have the Seattle model for coffee so it really isnt such a big deal. In fact, I never go there anyways but am curious as to where in Seattle there are three within a block's vacinity.

Im not saying it isn't possible but coming from someone who lives here - it just amazes me how these stories/fabrications about how progressive Seattle is just gets blown out of proportion. We are progressive, but not THAT forward.

[metro]

well HOT ROD, we usually always agree on everything. I've been to Seattle before as well. Regardless of how "stretched" things are, the reality is downtown seattle is far more urban than OKC and has many more residents. Right now downtown OKC probably only has a few hundred with virtually none living in Bricktown nor the CBD. Yes, by the end of this year there will be thousands hopefully. As someone said, Deep Deuce is really the only residents nearby as of now. Don't kid yourself though, Seattle is far more a coffee mecca than OKC. I forget the buildings name but I even saw it on CNN and FOX News the other day the building with 3 Starbucks. I'll see if I can find an article. Columbia Tower/Centre has 2 in it with Key Tower across the street having another one in it. Then in a 7 square block area between 5th and Second and Spring and the street before Pike there is another 8 Starbucks.

In the meantime, I went to Starbucks.com and found that 99 Starbucks are in Seattle , only 30 are in the OKC metro. There are over 40 Starbucks in the downtown/Midtown areas of Seattle alone. Keep in mind this does not even include other coffee shops. We're talking about a measly 4 or so of any coffee shops in all of downtown OKC!!

[BailJumper]

Here's two across the street from each other

Are there not two Starbucks in the same parking lot in MWC? One in the Super Target and free standing in the parking lot of the same strip mall.

[Karried]

I just wish someone would open a Java Hut here .. we had them in CA and it was heaven.. drive up, order a White Mocha (or whatever) and off I went .. ahhhhhh - beautiful.

[dismayed]

Personally I like Seattle's Best. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[FritterGirl]

Personally I like Seattle's Best. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Seattle's Best was bought out several years ago, and is now a subsidiary of...ahhh...Starbucks.

[jbrown84]

Karrie, do you mean Java City?

[Karried]

No, it was Java Hut .. it was a stand alone little 'shack' - it was awesome.. specialty coffees, iced granadas, just drive up, order, pay and get your coffee, never had to get out to go in Starbucks or similar coffee shops ....

Don't get me wrong, I like to do coffee shops as well, just not on the way to work!

[traxx]

No, it was Java Hut .. it was a stand alone little 'shack' - it was awesome.. specialty coffees, iced granadas, just drive up, order, pay and get your coffee, never had to get out to go in Starbucks or similar coffee shops ....

Don't get me wrong, I like to do coffee shops as well, just not on the way to work!

I always thought Java The Hut would be a clever name for a coffee shop. Several years ago a friend told me he had seen a shop in the city with that name because he knew that'd been my idea(it's since gone out of business). He said I should have done it before someone stole my idea, only problem was a lack of capital and resources, so someone got to it before me.

[metro]

Bailjumper, along those lines, then that applies to several places in the metro. At NW Expressway and Rockwell there is one inside the Target, then across the street there is a stand alone with a drive thru, then a mile down the road at MacArthur, there is another stand alone w/ drive through, then 2 miles down there is a stand alone with drive thru and one in the Target on May just a few blocks down the road again, then, there is one another mile down the road in Penn Square Mall. The ones I was talking about in Seattle's Columbia Centre are in the SAME BUILDING, and again one across the street, plus other coffee shops at the same intersection that aren't a Starbucks. My point was clearly that one intersection in downtown Seattle alone has more coffee shops (perhaps even just Starbucks) than all coffee shops in the downtown OKC area.

[HOT ROD]

Bailjumper, along those lines, then that applies to several places in the metro. At NW Expressway and Rockwell there is one inside the Target, then across the street there is a stand alone with a drive thru, then a mile down the road at MacArthur, there is another stand alone w/ drive through, then 2 miles down there is a stand alone with drive thru and one in the Target on May just a few blocks down the road again, then, there is one another mile down the road in Penn Square Mall. The ones I was talking about in Seattle's Columbia Centre are in the SAME BUILDING, and again one across the street, plus other coffee shops at the same intersection that aren't a Starbucks. My point was clearly that one intersection in downtown Seattle alone has more coffee shops (perhaps even just Starbucks) than all coffee shops in the downtown OKC area.

METRO, I think we can agree to disagree somewhat. But no matter what your conclusion is, Starbucks was founded in Seattle and that is the ONLY reason why there is an abnormally high number of coffee houses here. In fact, gourmet coffee to the massess as a concept was also heralded here in Seattle. This explains why Seattle's Best Coffee was the first then Starbucks and now Tully's. All three have a significant presence in Seattle, not much else in downtown Seattle.

So, rather than saying Seattle is the coffee culture or anything like that (like I said, those places downtown are empty except during rush) - we can agree that Seattle started the affordable gourmet coffee to the masses craze and because of that we have a large presence here.

Can we also agree that Bricktown can support 3+ coffee shops? I mean, OKC isnt that small and Seattle isnt that special. Good grief (so to say).

[tuck]

METRO, I think we can agree to disagree somewhat. But no matter what your conclusion is, Starbucks was founded in Seattle and that is the ONLY reason why there is an abnormally high number of coffee houses here. In fact, gourmet coffee to the massess as a concept was also heralded here in Seattle. This explains why Seattle's Best Coffee was the first then Starbucks and now Tully's. All three have a significant presence in Seattle, not much else in downtown Seattle.

So, rather than saying Seattle is the coffee culture or anything like that (like I said, those places downtown are empty except during rush) - we can agree that Seattle started the affordable gourmet coffee to the masses craze and because of that we have a large presence here.

Can we also agree that Bricktown can support 3+ coffee shops? I mean, OKC isnt that small and Seattle isnt that special. Good grief (so to say).

I sure hope Bricktown can support 3 coffee houses. The problem with these independent coffee places is lack of profit dollars. They need to pour coffee all day long for an operator(s) to make a decent living compared to the hours they are putting in. This is why you see Starbucks and others with multiple locations; sometimes right on top of each other. The concept is proven and every store will net a decent number, not a huge one. If a franchisee has 10 stores, it is worth the hard work.

One other thing, The Starbucks hospitality training program seems to be one of the best in all of foodservice. This would allow owners/partners of independents to manage multiple locations if necessary.

I say good luck to all...what a tough segment.

[jbrown84]

I sure hope Bricktown can support 3 coffee houses. The problem with these independent coffee places is lack of profit dollars. They need to pour coffee all day long for an operator(s) to make a decent living compared to the hours they are putting in. This is why you see Starbucks and others with multiple locations; sometimes right on top of each other. The concept is proven and every store will net a decent number, not a huge one. If a franchisee has 10 stores, it is worth the hard work.

Does that make up for all the extra overhead and extra employees needed?