Can Bricktown support 3 coffee shops?

[metro]

I was wondering what people's thoughts were on if Bricktown can support 3 coffee shops. We already have Uncommon Grounds next door to CityWalk. Then just around the corner at 222 E. Main another coffee shop plans on opening up Winter 07', I don't know if that means in the next month or so (presumably) or next December? Also as we know, Starbucks will be locating in the Centennial.

[BailJumper]

Regardless of whether or not Bricktown can successfully support 3, 4, or 5 coffee shops - give someone some money and they will often fall for "if you build it in Bricktown they will come."

Personally, I think I coffe shop would make it if it was situated near much needed retail. Of course a really successful coffee shop would be the financial death to others in the area.

[brianinok]

Not because it's a Starbucks, but because of location, I think the Starbucks will be the most successful. It has much more foot traffic (by the canal and theater) than the other two, plus it will have residences sitting on top of it.

[NE Oasis]

Not so much because of the Starbucks brand (I prefer the Panera house latte) but multiple coffee shops can thrive. In Seattle there are actually shops thriving across the street from each other because folks don't like long lines (sometimes as many a 3 people). All is takes is a quality product and fair price.

[BailJumper]

The problem is that week nights are often very slow and rent is still quite high. I don't think a Seattle, NYC etc. model applies to Bricktown.

Now that may all change in a couple of years when/if there is a stable base of residential traffic in the area.

[jbrown84]

I think they will be fine. The most at risk is the one opening on Main, away from most of the action, but it could potentially draw a lot from Deep Deuce residents.

[BDP]

Now that may all change in a couple of years when/if there is a stable base of residential traffic in the area.

I agree. It's all about density and the areas population should only grow in the next few years and this year's growth will be very big, percentage wise.

The starbucks should do well as it piggy backs off the theater crowd. I think the others can do well, but they will have to generate more of their own traffic and be destination coffee houses.

[jbrown84]

Uncommon Grounds I'm sure has a regular customer base, or it would not have survived this long north of Sheridan. The new one seems more at risk. It will really depend on if it's good enough to draw Deep Deucers and eventually Maywood Parkers, etc.

[dismayed]

I don't know how Uncommon Grounds manages to hang in there. It seems like every time I go there I'm the only one there. It's cool that they are managing though.

[metro]

Not so much because of the Starbucks brand (I prefer the Panera house latte) but multiple coffee shops can thrive. In Seattle there are actually shops thriving across the street from each other because folks don't like long lines (sometimes as many a 3 people). All is takes is a quality product and fair price.

Yes I know, but as others have said the Seattle model doesn't really apply. Seattle is much more urban #1, and #2 it is the coffee mecca of the US with the majority of people coffee drinkers with refined palettes and often do coffee tastings. There is one building in Seattle with 3 Starbucks in it and another one across the street. We're not Seattle nor close to their mindset on coffee!!

[HOT ROD]

hm, where is this?

I only know of two starbucks across the street in downtown Vancouver, and more than just one intersection. Downtown Van is MUCH more urban than Seattle and has 10 times the people; so I could see (and do see) the plethora of coffee (among everything else) there, but not like that in Seattle to my knowledge.

The "Seattle model" might not apply to most of OKC, but I think it does apply in downtown OKC; where it's just as urban tho a bit smaller than it is in Seattle. Downtown Sea area might have 20K residents but none of them live in the CBD - which I guess is what METRO is referring to the three starbucks is.??

Cities MUCH larger than Seattle dont have the Seattle model for coffee so it really isnt such a big deal. In fact, I never go there anyways but am curious as to where in Seattle there are three within a block's vacinity.

Im not saying it isn't possible but coming from someone who lives here - it just amazes me how these stories/fabrications about how progressive Seattle is just gets blown out of proportion. We are progressive, but not THAT forward.

[metro]

well HOT ROD, we usually always agree on everything. I've been to Seattle before as well. Regardless of how "stretched" things are, the reality is downtown seattle is far more urban than OKC and has many more residents. Right now downtown OKC probably only has a few hundred with virtually none living in Bricktown nor the CBD. Yes, by the end of this year there will be thousands hopefully. As someone said, Deep Deuce is really the only residents nearby as of now. Don't kid yourself though, Seattle is far more a coffee mecca than OKC. I forget the buildings name but I even saw it on CNN and FOX News the other day the building with 3 Starbucks. I'll see if I can find an article. Columbia Tower/Centre has 2 in it with Key Tower across the street having another one in it. Then in a 7 square block area between 5th and Second and Spring and the street before Pike there is another 8 Starbucks.

In the meantime, I went to Starbucks.com and found that 99 Starbucks are in Seattle , only 30 are in the OKC metro. There are over 40 Starbucks in the downtown/Midtown areas of Seattle alone. Keep in mind this does not even include other coffee shops. We're talking about a measly 4 or so of any coffee shops in all of downtown OKC!!

[BailJumper]

Here's two across the street from each other

Are there not two Starbucks in the same parking lot in MWC? One in the Super Target and free standing in the parking lot of the same strip mall.

[Karried]

I just wish someone would open a Java Hut here .. we had them in CA and it was heaven.. drive up, order a White Mocha (or whatever) and off I went .. ahhhhhh - beautiful.

[dismayed]

Personally I like Seattle's Best. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[jbrown84]

Karrie, do you mean Java City?

[Karried]

No, it was Java Hut .. it was a stand alone little 'shack' - it was awesome.. specialty coffees, iced granadas, just drive up, order, pay and get your coffee, never had to get out to go in Starbucks or similar coffee shops ....

Don't get me wrong, I like to do coffee shops as well, just not on the way to work!

[traxx]

No, it was Java Hut .. it was a stand alone little 'shack' - it was awesome.. specialty coffees, iced granadas, just drive up, order, pay and get your coffee, never had to get out to go in Starbucks or similar coffee shops ....

Don't get me wrong, I like to do coffee shops as well, just not on the way to work!

I always thought Java The Hut would be a clever name for a coffee shop. Several years ago a friend told me he had seen a shop in the city with that name because he knew that'd been my idea(it's since gone out of business). He said I should have done it before someone stole my idea, only problem was a lack of capital and resources, so someone got to it before me.

[metro]

Bailjumper, along those lines, then that applies to several places in the metro. At NW Expressway and Rockwell there is one inside the Target, then across the street there is a stand alone with a drive thru, then a mile down the road at MacArthur, there is another stand alone w/ drive through, then 2 miles down there is a stand alone with drive thru and one in the Target on May just a few blocks down the road again, then, there is one another mile down the road in Penn Square Mall. The ones I was talking about in Seattle's Columbia Centre are in the SAME BUILDING, and again one across the street, plus other coffee shops at the same intersection that aren't a Starbucks. My point was clearly that one intersection in downtown Seattle alone has more coffee shops (perhaps even just Starbucks) than all coffee shops in the downtown OKC area.

[BailJumper]

I guess if you can have a gas station on each of four corners and they make it, why not coffee shops.

[jbrown84]

Well coffee is a little bit more of a niche, but I agree with you to some extent. People like Starbucks. I think you could have a Starbucks on ever corner and they would all do fine. The question really comes down to whether this new place is any good.

[BailJumper]

Anyone read the March 2007 Consumer Reports? They compared the basic black coffees of Starbucks to McDonald's, Burger King and Dunkin' Donuts.

And the winner for both best taste and lowest price - McDonald's

Personally, I'd rather lick an ashtray then drink coffee black.

[floater]

Coffeehouses are such local operations. Each can have its own small customer base. But as said earlier, the x factor is the attractiveness of the 222 E Main shop: if it proves to be a nice place to spend a few hours, I think you will have traffic from The Hill and Deep Deuce and then some. Uncommon Grounds and certainly Stabucks will hold their own IMO no matter how successful this new place is. That said, I hope it is nice. I heard it opens next week.

[HOT ROD]

metro, I never said that OKC was more urban than downtown Seattle, what I said was there are other cities more urban than downtown Seattle - and that Vancouver BC actually has the most coffee houses, with numerous across the street - including the two world famous ones on Robson (which is Vancouver's Rodeo Drive, rent at $300+ per sq ft).

Downtown Vancouver is MUCH MORE URBAN than downtown Seattle and has more of everything, but the fact that it has so many coffee houses does not negatively impact the urban experience.

That was my point, that even though a city might have many of the same or a lot of competition (like Vancouver) - it's still a fun urban place and that is what OKC should strive to be. Bricktown CAN support 3 coffeehouses or more!!!

Also, Im not trying to be a Van booster so to say, just stating the obvious if you ever get the chance next visit to Seattle - go to Vancouver (2 hrs to the north) if you really want to experience a true urban experience!! That's what we Seattleites do.

[metro]

HOT ROD, I totally understand your point and did from square one. We agree 99% of the time. My point was that you made (intended or not) Seattle to seem not so urban and as OKC as close in comparison. I actually have been to Seattle and find it FAR more urban than OKC. Yes, I'd love OKC to be that urban and hope that we strive to be as urban as possible, but the reality is that Seattle is still far more urban now than OKC will be years from now.

I'll requote something I said earlier to make my point, of regardless how much more urban Vancouver,BC is than Seattle (irrelevant comparing OKC to Seattle).

There are over 40 Starbucks in the downtown/Midtown areas of Seattle alone. Keep in mind this does not even include other coffee shops in the downtown/Midtown Seattle area. We're talking about a measly 4 or so of any coffee shops in all of downtown OKC!!

That's more than a 4:1 ratio in Seattle's favor (just Starbucks alone), thus proving my point that Seattle is far more a coffee culture than OKC.