Pregnant Mom Sandwich Arrest

[ljbab728]

This is a perfect example of the system running amok. I think the store is very sorry this ever happened, but it did.

http://news.yahoo.com/pregnant-mom-s...214407004.html

[MDot]

That's absolutely crazy. I would sue the balls off that store's manager and security gaurd.

[bombermwc]

Safeway should fire the manager and security guard and then give this lady free groceries. Common sense should have prevailed on SOOOO many levels here.

Unfortunately, I've been told by folks from OK that have lived in HI, that "offlanders" are often treated like dirt by the islanders....to the point it's almost a racism issue. Get out of the tourist area and try to live there, and barriers are placed in front of you every day. Crap like this is a good example of it.

[Roadhawg]

I heard about this on Bob & Tom this morning. The manager said he was following policy... I'm thinking Safeway will be changing either their policy or their manager.

[HewenttoJared]

"Oops I forgot to pay" is a very common excuse in retail stops. Most big box stores have a cut-off for pressing charges, however and $5 is not much...
How could they change their policy without losing face, losing customers or losing legitimate stops?

[RadicalModerate]

"How could they change their policy without losing face, losing customers or losing legitimate stops?"

Obviously, they already have a very effective policy vis-a-vis public relations, but it could be better: The scofflaws could be put in stocks outside the store for about a week as a lesson to other potential thieves and have their foreheads branded with an "S" (for "Shoplifter") . . . (or Sandwich).

[HewenttoJared]

Cruel and unusual...

[RadicalModerate]

Yeah . . . Sort of like being arrested, taken downtown, and having your beloved child ripped from your arms over an empty sandwich wrapper. Or even two of them.

"Book 'em Danno . . . Here's a real heavy book to use that doesn't leave bruises."

[BDK]

I'm not really sure what you guys think this family would gain by a lawsuit, as the company and the state were solely enforcing the law. I'm sure the manager did not have discretion under company policy to decide whether or not to press charges. Obviously, from a public relations perspective, Safeway would have been better served letting the woman go, but I'd imagine the company does not want to give its managers free rein to determine whether or not to press charges in instances of shoplifting. The story relates that they were only charged with a petty misdemeanor, basically the equivalent of a speeding ticket. Intent is a difficult matter to prove, I'd say lesson learned and move on and not try to make a media event out of enforcement of the law.

I'm curious where you guys would draw a bright-line store policy. Would it be intent based? Based on the value of the item stolen?

[MadMonk]

The store manager should have some discretion in cases such as this that were honest mistakes vs. obvious shoplifting attempts. Apparently, Safeway is now dropping the charges, but it never should have gotten as far as it did.
http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749...-27132589.html

[BBatesokc]

What exactly is a manager if not someone of authority entrusted to use common sense and make decisions based on individual circumstances? I don't for a second believe store managers do not have the ability to interpret policy as needed in the best interests of all involved.

[HewenttoJared]

What exactly is a manager if not someone of authority entrusted to use common sense and make decisions based on individual circumstances? I don't for a second believe store managers do not have the ability to interpret policy as needed in the best interests of all involved.

What individual circumstances? She stole...Saying she did it by accident doesn't change that.

[MDot]

What individual circumstances? She stole...Saying she did it by accident doesn't change that.

If you buy $50 worth of groceries why would you go ahead and steal $5's worth of sandwichs? As others mentioned, common sense should come into play here, not acting like a robot who listens to only one command. It's called "being reasonable."

[HewenttoJared]

If you buy $50 worth of groceries why would you go ahead and steal $5's worth of sandwichs? As others mentioned, common sense should come into play here, not acting like a robot who listens to only one command. It's called "being reasonable."

I would not steal with cash in my pocket, but I can assure you people do.

[BBatesokc]

What individual circumstances? She stole...Saying she did it by accident doesn't change that.

The ones that cause most of us to live within reality. There also appears to be no intent to steal. And the same circumstances that allow law enforcement to decide when to arrest, write tickets or leave well enough alone. Not to mention circumstances that allow judges and juries a wide latitude in many circumstances when it comes to punishment.

[BDK]

I'm not understanding the "accidental" argument. People speed by accident everyday and get cited for it; intent is irrelevant. She was charged with a petty misdemeanor which is the same category as a traffic ticket. If she were facing a true-blue misdemeanor which might carry a stout fine or jail time then perhaps intent would be a meaningful consideration. Can you explain how is someone who accidentally drives slightly over the speed limit is deserving of a fine when someone who accidentally takes from a store is not?

[HewenttoJared]

The ones that cause most of us to live within reality. There also appears to be no intent to steal. And the same circumstances that allow law enforcement to decide when to arrest, write tickets or leave well enough alone. Not to mention circumstances that allow judges and juries a wide latitude in many circumstances when it comes to punishment.

Appears to be no intent based on what? Her saying she didnt mean to do it? They really do all say that. I agree that the separation was uncalled for, but that was up to the police. The store probably did exactly what any store around here would have done. The story is missing some key details that make it hard to say for sure.

[Midtowner]

The ones that cause most of us to live within reality. There also appears to be no intent to steal. And the same circumstances that allow law enforcement to decide when to arrest, write tickets or leave well enough alone. Not to mention circumstances that allow judges and juries a wide latitude in many circumstances when it comes to punishment.

Without question, there's probable cause to arrest here. That doesn't mean that there's enough evidence for a conviction though. I don't see any evidence of anything that doesn't happen all the time. She says it's an accident. People lie.

--and the article mentioning that she's pregnant? So?

[BBatesokc]

Without question, there's probable cause to arrest here. That doesn't mean that there's enough evidence for a conviction though. I don't see any evidence of anything that doesn't happen all the time. She says it's an accident. People lie.

--and the article mentioning that she's pregnant? So?

And you and I both know that 'probably cause to arrest' is not a high standard. If a cop wants to arrest someone, they can, with virtually no effort or foundation.

People lie - and people make honest mistakes. I remember several years ago I was with someone and we stopped at a c-store and ran inside for some snacks. The person with me picked up some car classified magazine and left without paying - thinking it was a free publication. A few minutes later he realized the $1.00 (?) price on the cover. We turned around and went back and paid. The clerk said he thought he saw us walk out with it without paying, but admitted it wasn't worth any effort on his part (he was the store owner). He thanked us for coming back. If he wanted to be a real jerk he could have called the cops and caused us lots of problems.

I also worked for WalMart in the late 80's or so. On more than one occasion the Village PD showed up for a shoplifting call and would let the offender go with a ticket if they had fully identified the person and the amount was insignificant. This, even though loss prevention wanted an arrest and prosecution. The cop would explain that technically the alleged shoplifter was 'arrested' and released in the field with either a court date or that detectives would decide whether or not to request charges in the near future.

I have no idea if the law allowed for that where this occurred, but I know it does here. This even happens with my prostitution citizen arrests. SOmetimes they are taken to jail for processing and sometimes they are released in the field.

That is what should have happened in this case, IMO.

[oneforone]

It amazes me how people take policies and authority to the extreme. As the person in charge in any business you have to be able to know when to apply strict policy enforcement and when you can go around it. All that matters is that you can articulate why you did it. I see issues with the store manager, the security guard and the arresting officer. I can't believe none of them suggested that she pay for the sandwich. If she refused to pay, they should have obtained her information and told her not to return. Many businesses will ban a customer when the item taken is recovered or the item is inexpensive. It saves the business time and money. If the person comes back to the business. They have them arrested for trespassing.

[MDot]

People accidently speed and get tickets, she accidently stole, she was arrested and seperated from her 3 year old daughter for 18 hours. Her punishment sounds a bit more severe than being cited a couple hundred dollar fine depending on how fast the person was going over. When I speed, it's not on accident, I intentionally hit the gas to go faster; I know what I'm doing. And normally cops will give you a 5-10 miles over before they really consider pulling you over, depending on the cop, and a lot of times they will just cite you a warning and let you go depending on the circumstance.

[BDK]

People accidently speed and get tickets, she accidently stole, she was arrested and seperated from her 3 year old daughter for 18 hours. Her punishment sounds a bit more severe than being cited a couple hundred dollar fine depending on how fast the person was going over.

You're conflating punishment with the accompanying circumstances of the arrest. Her punishment will be a fine, just like the speeding ticket.

[MDot]

You're conflating punishment with the accompanying circumstances of the arrest. Her punishment will be a fine, just like the speeding ticket.

Not all speeding tickets are fines though. That's my main point, they will let you off with a warning under certain circumstances.

[BDK]

Not all speeding tickets are fines though. That's my main point, they will let you off with a warning under certain circumstances.

I don't understand that argument. The police have the discretion in the instance of a traffic ticket, they do not have that discretion in the case where an aggrieved party wants to press charges. I agree that the smart, though not necessarily "right," thing to do would be to not press charges. Law enforcement is not at fault in this instance. Also, can you imagine the potential for abuse if the police had complete discretion regarding the pressing of charges?

[RadicalModerate]

Brian: What exactly is a manager if not someone of authority entrusted to use common sense and make decisions based on individual circumstances? I don't for a second believe store managers do not have the ability to interpret policy as needed in the best interests of all involved.

As truthful as that statement may be, obviously, you do not glean a living within The Corporate Structure of The New Millennium.


HeWent: What individual circumstances? She stole...Saying she did it by accident doesn't change that.

Could you please post a graph to prove the veracity of that conjecture?
And how does the cutting off of a hand--or hands--move the line on the graph?
and where does "cruel and unusual" enter the picture?

All joking aside . . .
I would imagine that a simple: "Go . . . And sin no more. At least not at this location."
Would have been more than sufficient.
Especially when combined with CCTV.