Silicon Valley Arrogance

[PWitty]

Not too long ago there was some discussion about low-income housing going into Midtown, and some posters had conflicting views on the matter. I came across this article about SF this morning, and couldn't help but think back to that discussion. I fear that situations like this are only going to become more and more common as people look to move back to a city's DT core, and that most of the large cities in the US are heading in the direction of SF and Manhattan. Both have turned into playgrounds for the upper class elite, and property values are so high that even upper-middle class and some upper class people can't afford to live in areas like that on their own.

Silicon Valley Arrogance

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Without reading that article, I can tell you that I've been priced out of downtown for a long time now....and I make pretty good money (my wife does as well).

The $$$ per sq ft is ridiculous compared to even the pricier burbs.

[mkjeeves]

PWitty, best wishes for you in dealing with the smackdown you are about to receive.

[trousers]

So wealthy people are sometimes jerks? Point taken.

[HangryHippo]

So wealthy people are sometimes jerks? Point taken.

Did you even read the article?

[trousers]

Yeah. I just don't see what is new, shocking or surprising about it. Let's see what we've got here.
-rich douchebag doesn't like homeless people or trannies. You're right, that has to be a first.
-group of rich guys create elite club. Wait they can do that? So it's a technocrat country club.
-as for the rest of it take any article from the 80s referencing Wall Street and replace it with Silicon Valley.

I'm not saying I like. Just don't see the difference between this and the past.
Unless of course it's just because now it's computer nerds doing it.
In that case NERDS! said in my best Ogre voice.

[PWitty]

My point was that re-urbanization is a big topic of conversation nationally, and I think stuff like this is going to start becoming the norm not just in the United States biggest cities but across the entire nation.

Perhaps my thread title is deceiving. I didn't mean for it to sound like I'm trashing on Silicon Valley, it was just the title of the article I was referencing.

[trousers]

I actually agree with your point and will admit I came across as more than just a bit of a smart @ss.
I guess my issue was more the tone of the article and how it feeds into the current culture of outrage.

[PWitty]

I actually agree with your point and will admit I came across as more than just a bit of a smart @ss.
I guess my issue was more the tone of the article and how it feeds into the current culture of outrage.

I can see your point. I didn't mean for the article to be super informative, it is just what led me back to thinking about this topic a little more.

[PWitty]

I agree Sid. I didn't mean to say re-urbanization is a bad thing, I was just bringing up one of the most common results of re-urbanization at this point in time. I'm most definitely not trying to argue in favor of suburban developments. I think re-urbanization is something that is needed, and something that I personally am in favor of.

[betts]

I think we have too narrow a definition of downtown living. And our idea of reasonable prices is frequently dictated by prices charged in suburban areas that have minimal land costs. I don't think it's a god-given right to live downtown within 6 blocks of the CBD. To me, Jefferson Park, the neighborhood just north of 23rd St and even Classen Ten Penn are incredibly close and certainly affordable for most people buying homes. There are affordable apartments to rent as close as Heritage Hills and Mesta Park. These homes and apartments may not be brand new, have granite countertops and stainless steel appliances but their proximity is great for their price, compared to many other cities. In San Francisco I saw an 800 square foot apartment with about 3 ft. of granite countertop (because the kitchen was so small) selling for $899,000.00. My daughter and her roommates pay $5,000 a month for their 1500 square foot apartment and her salary is no better than what she would make here.

Developers building apartment complexes downtown, because of tax breaks they're getting, are being required to have some reasonably affordable apartments for rent - dirt cheap by my daughter's standards. What more should we expect?

[PWitty]

I think we have too narrow a definition of downtown living. And our idea of reasonable prices is frequently dictated by prices charged in suburban areas that have minimal land costs. I don't think it's a god-given right to live downtown within 6 blocks of the CBD. To me, Jefferson Park, the neighborhood just north of 23rd St and even Classen Ten Penn are incredibly close and certainly affordable for most people buying homes. There are affordable apartments to rent as close as Heritage Hills and Mesta Park. These homes and apartments may not be brand new, have granite countertops and stainless steel appliances but their proximity is great for their price, compared to many other cities. In San Francisco I saw an 800 square foot apartment with about 3 ft. of granite countertop (because the kitchen was so small) selling for $899,000.00. My daughter and her roommates pay $5,000 a month for their 1500 square foot apartment and her salary is no better than what she would make here.

Developers building apartment complexes downtown, because of tax breaks they're getting, are being required to have some reasonably affordable apartments for rent - dirt cheap by my daughter's standards. What more should we expect?

I agree with you. The scope of my post wasn't limited just to OKC though, I am talking about the cost of real-estate in urban areas on a nationwide scale.

I'm forced into watching HGTV with my GF sometimes, and the amount people pay for very little was astounding to me at first. Especially when it comes to apartments for rent/sale in places like NYC. I understand that there is an inherent increase in value because you have NYC at your doorstep, but some of those prices are just ridiculous. Your example of the apartment in SF is exactly the kind of thing I"m talking about here.

[BBatesokc]

Without reading that article, I can tell you that I've been priced out of downtown for a long time now....and I make pretty good money (my wife does as well).

The $$$ per sq ft is ridiculous compared to even the pricier burbs.

Same happened to us. We looked for a home downtown (literally downtown, Deep Deauce, Midtown and HH area) for 3-4 years but could find anything acceptable for the money. $250,000-$300,000 (our budget) would get us either extremely tiny or extremely in need of fixing up.

We opted to pay less than that for 2.5 acres in Edmond in what we consider and excellent location (E 15th and I-35). Plus, we can be downtown via all highway in 13 minutes.

I agree downtown needs to have affordable housing though to complete the mix. However, 'affordable' means different things to different people.

I personally would never pay over about $350,000 for any home and much prefer to pay considerably less.

I know people who jumped in and spend $700,000 to over a million downtown and couldn't get out without loosing their shirt if they wanted to.

Others bought in HH many years ago and can sell at anytime and make a good profit (though they say their maintenance costs were way higher than they would have been in a newer traditional home, and when factored in probably make it a break even or loss).

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

I think we have too narrow a definition of downtown living. And our idea of reasonable prices is frequently dictated by prices charged in suburban areas that have minimal land costs. I don't think it's a god-given right to live downtown within 6 blocks of the CBD. To me, Jefferson Park, the neighborhood just north of 23rd St and even Classen Ten Penn are incredibly close and certainly affordable for most people buying homes. There are affordable apartments to rent as close as Heritage Hills and Mesta Park. These homes and apartments may not be brand new, have granite countertops and stainless steel appliances but their proximity is great for their price, compared to many other cities. In San Francisco I saw an 800 square foot apartment with about 3 ft. of granite countertop (because the kitchen was so small) selling for $899,000.00. My daughter and her roommates pay $5,000 a month for their 1500 square foot apartment and her salary is no better than what she would make here.

Developers building apartment complexes downtown, because of tax breaks they're getting, are being required to have some reasonably affordable apartments for rent - dirt cheap by my daughter's standards. What more should we expect?

While I agree with you on most of that...The only downtown living without having a 100 year old house to contend with (okay for some, but it's not on my life's list of sh** I want to do ) is 250 dollars a square foot and up. $250 per square foot in the burbs will get you a really, REALLY nice custom home, pool, workshop, acreage, tennis court, and probably a maid and a nanny.

/hasn't looked in a while, but that was what I was looking at...Plus...Not sure I'm the target demographic anyway. I have two small children.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Same happened to us. We looked for a home downtown (literally downtown, Deep Deauce, Midtown and HH area) for 3-4 years but could find anything acceptable for the money. $250,000-$300,000 (our budget) would get us either extremely tiny or extremely in need of fixing up.

We opted to pay less than that for 2.5 acres in Edmond in what we consider and excellent location (E 15th and I-35). Plus, we can be downtown via all highway in 13 minutes.

I agree downtown needs to have affordable housing though to complete the mix. However, 'affordable' means different things to different people.

I personally would never pay over about $350,000 for any home and much prefer to pay considerably less.

I know people who jumped in and spend $700,000 to over a million downtown and couldn't get out without loosing their shirt if they wanted to.

Others bought in HH many years ago and can sell at anytime and make a good profit (though they say their maintenance costs were way higher than they would have been in a newer traditional home, and when factored in probably make it a break even or loss).

We cheaped out even more than that and moved to Choctaw. Great new home with no neighborhood association for far FAR less. I'm 13 minutes from work and my wife works from home. We wouldn't mind living downtown...But a couple of acres with sq ft to spare was a huge draw to us. Not to mention I have a big workshop for my tools and cars and hobbies. We were willing to give up quite a bit of that. But not at more than double the cost.

[BBatesokc]

We cheaped out even more than that and moved to Choctaw. Great new home with no neighborhood association for far FAR less. I'm 13 minutes from work and my wife works from home. We wouldn't mind living downtown...But a couple of acres with sq ft to spare was a huge draw to us. Not to mention I have a big workshop for my tools and cars and hobbies. We were willing to give up quite a bit of that. But not at more than double the cost.

Our position exactly. Have a small storage barn, but very excited to get my new workshop in next Spring/Summer. No HOA dues or restrictions and anything less than a 30 minute commute downtown is really not a 'commute' at all.

[hoya]

We're going to see costs remain fairly high in downtown OKC for a good long while, as long as the market continues to support it. Most of the available "downtown housing" is very new construction. At some point supply will exceed demand, and that's when rent prices will drop. That's also when construction will drop, so I'm not exactly anxious for that to happen.

Deep Deuce Apartments are expensive now, but in 30 years I imagine they'll be quite affordable. Some of them will probably have been torn down and replaced with newer construction, some of them will have been converted to condos and sold off, but when the demand for high priced living downtown has been met, these will probably be the least desirable and so will have to lower rents to stay full.

It will happen for us, it will just take time.