Ford Center improvements up for March 4 vote

[JWil]

Read into this as you want, but I think this means something is definitely brewing on the NBA front:

NewsOK: Ford Center improvements up for March 4 vote

[betts]

I agree. It seems hard to believe the city would come up with a vote like this when there's only the promise of a team. This suggests they know something we've not been told yet.

[Doug Loudenback]

Ditto what betts said. Sounds like it may be an early Christmas present ...

[OU Adonis]

Surprisingly enough there are a lot of negative comments on this article. Whats up with that OKC?

[betts]

It looks like a lot of the negative comments are from people who don't live in Oklahoma City. There are clearly some people who feel like those in Seattle, and one can see where it's getting them.

[jbrown84]

My question is why does it need a separate vote and separate 1-cent sales tax from MAPS 3?

[BDP]

It looks like a lot of the negative comments are from people who don't live in Oklahoma City.

Yeah and one guy even brought up illegal immigrants.

Personally, I think it's healthy when a community questions taxation, but what's funny is that these people are complaining without seeing any kind of proposal. Some just see all taxation as inherently bad, so you're always going to get some of that reaction. However, if the proposal sucks, I'll complain right along with them and I certainly wouldn't extend a tax without an actual design proposal. No blank checks, please.

[Decious]

According to the Oklahoman article city leaders have been in consultation w/ the NBA regarding the Ford Center.

The NBA has said that a new arena is not currently needed and that the proposed upgrades to the Ford Center would put it on par with top arenas in the league.

The article went on to say that we would be set as far as arenas go for the next decade and half.

Sounds good to me.

[metro]

My question is why does it need a separate vote and separate 1-cent sales tax from MAPS 3?

So we can have our cake and eat it to. Why slow down the momentum of the city and take away from MAPS with a new arena if we can fund an arena separately and then have more projects left for MAPS 3 instead of pushing some off until MAPS4. I say fund the new arena by raising the hotel/motel tax (which is what Bennett is suggesting in Seattle), ours is only 5 cents or so on the dollar which is about half the nationwide average. Raise it 2 cents and let visitors pay for a world class arena and keep our momentum going without having to wait for a MAPS4. How's that idea Cornett?

[BoulderSooner]

So we can have our cake and eat it to. Why slow down the momentum of the city and take away from MAPS with a new arena if we can fund an arena separately and then have more projects left for MAPS 3 instead of pushing some off until MAPS4. I say fund the new arena by raising the hotel/motel tax (which is what Bennett is suggesting in Seattle), ours is only 5 cents or so on the dollar which is about half the nationwide average. Raise it 2 cents and let visitors pay for a world class arena and keep our momentum going without having to wait for a MAPS4. How's that idea Cornett?

great idea .. and i am sure that the city has consulted with clay the entire time .. basicly this gives us until abotu 2025 before we need a new arena that will be what maps5 or so ..

this is a great thing for our city .. and i would think that it will pass with ease ..

[BDP]

The NBA has said that a new arena is not currently needed and that the proposed upgrades to the Ford Center would put it on par with top arenas in the league.

The article went on to say that we would be set as far as arenas go for the next decade and half.

That does sound great. I know that some would like to see a new arena, but I think the Ford Center's best asset is its location, which I feel helps to offset some of its shortcomings when compared to some of the top arenas in the NBA. The article suggested we're talking about $100 million in improvements. This will basically double the money originally spent to build the Ford Center and should buy some impressive improvements while still keeping the total investment below that of many of the newest arenas in the country.

When the Hornets were here, the NBA said that it was a middle of the pack arena. If we can move it into even the bottom of the top tier and keep its location for $100 million more, then I don't think you can ask for a better situation for Oklahoma City.

[jbrown84]

So we can have our cake and eat it to. Why slow down the momentum of the city and take away from MAPS with a new arena if we can fund an arena separately and then have more projects left for MAPS 3 instead of pushing some off until MAPS4. I say fund the new arena by raising the hotel/motel tax (which is what Bennett is suggesting in Seattle), ours is only 5 cents or so on the dollar which is about half the nationwide average. Raise it 2 cents and let visitors pay for a world class arena and keep our momentum going without having to wait for a MAPS4. How's that idea Cornett?

But the article said it will be a 1-cent sales tax when Maps for Kids is over.

[BoulderSooner]

i would guess that the maps3 sales tax would start being collected after this was finished being paid for ...

but i would expect the updgrades to start on the ford center asap .. and i would expect maps 3 projects to start before the tax starts ..

[metro]

But the article said it will be a 1-cent sales tax when Maps for Kids is over.

I agree, and I think the city is stupid for proposing that. Basically they are delaying when MAPS3 will go into effect. Why not raise the hotel/motel tax again say 2 cents (which would be about 7 cents which is well below the national average). For the most part the tax is paid by out of town visitors on hotel rooms. This way it doesn't take away money from MAPS3, and doesn't delay MAPS3 from starting either. A win-win as far as I am concerned.

[jbrown84]

I agree.

[Doug Loudenback]

Surprisingly enough there are a lot of negative comments on this article. Whats up with that OKC?

Here's what's up, in my opinion, contained in my own comments just made in the referenced thread's posts ... it shows up as made by "Doug" in the comments at NewsOK: Election to be called for Ford Center upgrade

It's pretty amusing reading the negative comments ... for those of you Okies not aware, it has become a common practice for people who use anonymous names AND CITY ids to actually be using fictitious locales ... if you don't believe it, check out the Seattle Times Sonics board sometime where people create usernames and purport to be from Okc or surrounding towns and then post there as though they were from this area. My name has been used in this way but there's really nothing I can do about that. There really are a number of nasties around who think that they can fool people by doing this type of thing. I'd be AMAZED if MANY of those who've posted here so far are not in that category ... they do not WANT Okc to succeed, they want Okc to fail ... and they want to create the illusion that those who actually DO live here are opposed to things such as this which cannot pass voter muster in their own region of the country. What's funny is that they think that voter approval may actually be influenced by their surreptitious anonymous posts here or anywhere else. They obviously haven't worked in Seattle and the tactic will not work here, either. This is an excellent and marvelously timely initiative by our city's leadership and it WILL PASS by a landslide. Those from or sympathetic to the Seattle area don't want it to, but it will. No, it wouldn't in pass in Seattle, but it will here. Just as it should.

Most of you have probably never taken a look at the fictitious posts made in the Seattle paper's Sonics forums ... why should you? That happens and it happens a lot. If you really want some examples, I'll copy and paste some into this thread ... you will not like what you see. It ain't pretty.

[Kerry]

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I already went over to the Seattle Times forum and poked them in the eye. It was fun.

[BDP]

I caught a bit of the mayor on the sports animal this afternoon. One thing he said that is important to conisder is that this is not a "refurbishing", like getting new carpets and such, but significant improvements that will essentially make it like a new building. That's what he said. Now we'll just have to wait for some specifics.

I think the only conerns about moving it our of MAPS is that it 1) takes a high profile project out of MAPS3 which could hinder its appeal to the masses and 2) means that, for MAPS3 to pass, Oklahoma Citians will be asked to tax themselves twice in a period of 12-16 months.

[brianinok]

I think the MAPS 3 tax would be a continuation of this tax (which is a continuation of the MAPS for Kids, which is a continuation of "Let's finish MAPS right, which is a continuation of MAPS). The citizens of OKC voted to taxed themselves back-to-back to finish MAPS right and MAPS for Kids, and they will this time as well. Although, by taking Ford Center upgrades and/or new arena out of MAPS 3, they will have to come up with some really good projects for it.

[betts]

Here's the most recent and more comprehensive article from the DOK:

Ford Center plan must be OK'd before Sonics voteBy Bryan Dean
Staff Writer
OKLAHOMA CITY voters will decide March 4 whether they want their city to be an NBA town.
The city will ask voters to approve a temporary 1-cent sales tax to pay for improvements at the Ford Center that would put the arena on par with the best NBA venues in the country, Mayor Mick Cornett said Thursday. The vote will come a month before NBA owners decide whether to approve the Seattle SuperSonics' application to relocate to Oklahoma City. Without a yes vote on the tax, the city likely won't get a team, Cornett said.

"No one is forcing us to do this,” Cornett said. "This is a choice. We can choose to be an NBA city, or we can choose not to be. We're not going to get a franchise if we don't pass it.”

Like ‘a brand-new arena'
The city has contracted with the architect who built the Ford Center, The Benham Companies, to study what improvements will be needed to bring the arena to NBA standards.A practice facility, better concession areas, new restaurants and other fan amenities are among the improvements expected to be included in the architect's report. The improvements would be funded by a temporary sales tax to be collected beginning Jan. 1, 2009 — the day after the MAPS for Kids penny sales tax expires. Cornett said the tax would likely last one year to 15 months and pay for about $100 million worth of improvements. The Ford Center cost about $92 million to build.

The exact cost of the improvements and length of the tax will be announced by Jan. 2, the day the city council is scheduled to vote to set the March 4 election. Cornett said the city, working in consultation with the NBA, has determined a new arena won't be needed in the near future. The renovations would make the Ford Center comparable to the league's best arenas and will prevent the city from needing a new arena for at least 10 to 15 years."For all intents and purposes, it will be a brand-new arena the day it opens,” Cornett said.

Clay Bennett, the Oklahoma City businessman who leads the SuperSonics' ownership group, gave a preliminary endorsement to the move Thursday. "Mayor Cornett and the city have taken a visionary and appropriate step towards becoming an NBA city,” Bennett said. "I applaud their leadership.”

Vote would be timely
City officials considered including Ford Center improvements in a MAPS 3 initiative expected to go to a vote late next year, but Cornett said it can't wait.
The NBA Board of Governors, made up of representatives from each ownership group in the league, is scheduled to vote on the SuperSonics relocation request in April. Cornett said the improvements must be approved before then to convince the league Oklahoma City is committed to hosting an NBA franchise permanently. "We don't feel like a MAPS 3 initiative is ready to go in its entirety,” Cornett said. "The only prudent thing to do was pull the Ford Center improvements out and have it voted upon by itself.” Even if the league approves the relocation request, the team moving isn't a sure thing. The SuperSonics are in a legal battle with the city of Seattle over the terms of its lease, with the city claiming the team must play its games in Seattle until the current lease expires in 2010.

If legal disputes keep the Sonics from moving to Oklahoma City, the Ford Center improvements will be re-worked or delayed, Cornett said. "We're not going to build something we don't need,” Cornett said.

Unlike past ballot initiatives like MAPS for Kids, city officials expect organized and well-funded opposition to the Ford Center proposal. Cornett said the city will rely on the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce to get its message to the voters. Brett Hamm, president of Downtown Oklahoma City Inc., said the chamber and the downtown business community will be big supporters of the proposal. "With the Hornets, we saw a total economic impact between $65 and $70 million during their two-year stay,” Hamm said. "Regardless of whether you're an NBA fan or sports fan at all, having our own major league team in Oklahoma City expands business growth, development and opportunity across the city.” Cornett said he knows getting the proposal passed will be a fight, but it's one he believes city leaders can win.

"My perception is that this city has loved the NBA's presence and wants more of it and is willing to invest in itself,” Cornett said.

[oneforone]

I think they just need to make OKC 8.375% sales tax permanent. They could call the penny tax a city improvement/service expansion tax. The funds could go to adding/renovating community centers, expanding the transit system, city pools/spray grounds, additional city parks, repaving and replacing main and residential streets, as well as expanding the police fire departments.

In the end, we would have a very safe and user friendly city. The only request I would have is to have an independent citizen board to track every penny and post their records for public inspection.


It would not bother me if the city put at an even 10%. I already round to 10% when I pay for goods and services just as a precaution.

[Kerry]

Making it permanent is not a good idea. Once they know they have the money they will start spending it on crazy stuff that has nothing to do why the money was rasied in the first place. I live in Jacksonville, FL we made a 20 year temporary 1 cent tax and they are only building about half of what was promised. Not sure where the rest of the money went. We have a half completed court house that will never get finished because oposition groups led by one of the judges got the project stopped. I look at MAPS like a contruction loan. Build what you said you were going to build or the money stops flowing.

[bombermwc]

20 years is way too long. You cannot accuratelt predict inflation and construction costs like that. Even MAPs had issues in it's short run and had to be extended.

MAPs 3 won't be hurt by having to wait 1 year either folks. 1 year for making such a drastic change to a facility that has helped spur a CRAPLOAD of stuff is well worth it.

[HOT ROD]

I agree, the city should basically delay MAPS III for a year or two, get Ford Center into the top tier and secure the NBA - then once that deal is signed, go for MAPS III.

I always thought that the arena should NOT be included in MAPS III and I am very glad to see the city has vision to preempt the NBA with a HUGE carrot that will basically make the vote near 100% in favor of relocation to OKC, whereas without the carrot relocation might be 60-40.

I disagree with Cornet that a No vote means No NBA, but I do agree that a YES vote assures OKC a team - be it the Sonics, Hornets, or somebody else - and in the very near future (like within 3 years).

VOTE YES to make the Ford Center world class. It only extends the current penny a year or so, big deal - yet we'd finally have a facility which nobody in the country could look down upon.

And with a team finally OUR OWN, nobody would ever look down on OKC. I see long standing benefits, Ford Center is OKC's trophy (which businesses/potential residents look to when they claim quality of life/things to do) - we want our trophy to be top-knotch; and only $100M to do so, and only extension of the penny already being paid. ..

This is a no-brainer.

Metro, I think the new arena (10-20 years from now) could be funded with a hotel tax increase, especially since OKC should have 1/3 more hotel rooms and much of them full with events from the rebuilt Ford Center (and the business it brings) by then.

You do have a good idea, but - Right now, I dont think OKC is big enough to rely on a hotel tax increase for such a QUICK shot in the arm.

[namellac]

I like what MAPS has done thus far. I'm not an NBA fan, but having the FORD Center has brought Musical acts through town that might not otherwise have come.

I'd be curious to know the following though:

1. $X in MAPS money towards FORD Center yields $Y in actual benefit to the community.
   
   
   vs.
   
   
2. $XX in MAPS money towards (insert project here) yields $YY in actual benefit to the community.

Lord knows we STILL need better edu-ma-cation here.
And there are still areas of this city that need Urban Renewal more so than the Bricktown area.

Has anybody bothered to research this? Or is everyone just willing to roll the dice on getting an NBA franchise here?