Reno Ave -- first P180 street finished

[Spartan]

Any thoughts or comments on the job they did on Reno? I was looking at some pictures and it doesn't seem to include bicycle lanes, though I hope I'm wrong.

[Larry OKC]

Spatan: the map I downloaded dated 8/21/10 (sorry, don't know from where or how to upload it, but if you send me your email address in a PM, I can try sending it to you if you want)...anyway, the map has Reno labeled but it is at the bottom of the map, and doesn't show any bike routes were planned (but may have just been "cut off")????

But it does show dedicated lane on the East side (Robinson) of MG, nothing on the west side (Hudson), a "Sharrow" (shared vehicle/bike) on the North edge (Sheridan)

Dedicated lanes on Sheridan (north edge of Stage Center) and West edge (Walker)

[Snowman]

Reno is on the Phase II list of to be bike routes as unfunded (as of the 2008 Bike Transportation Plan), though I am not sure where they are at in Phase I or if that will be done in the next decade. Most of the Phase I routes in downtown are north/south, Sheritan, 4th & 6th are the only ones south of 10th in Phase I for downtown. If it will be shared lane in that section they may be holding off signing it that way till after the Boulevard is completed.

In one of the past transportation subcommittee meetings, I remember they were going from the small lane on the side of the road to having them take the entire right lane (I think more so where cars parallel park) since they have had some issues with the narrow lane is not a normal place people expect to need to look before turns and pulling out from parallel parking, also cyclists were being obscured by other vehicles which has lead to auto on bike accidents.

[Spartan]

Interestingly, there isn't really a standard place to expect bicyclists in Europe either, other than to just expect them in general. I really think OKC could be a great bicycling city when you consider how flat the city center is, which bodes well for that. Wish they'd be more aggressive in implementing those.

In Amsterdam I've come to appreciate the system where the bicycle lane is always between the street parking and the sidewalk, basically it's own sidewalk. In Copenhagen they have a separate network of "bicycle roads" that cut through parks, waterfronts, forests, buildings, etc..and the bicycle roads have their own traffic signals. It's really cool.

I recognize it seems unlikely that bicycling will ever emerge as a serious transportation mode in Oklahoma, but ideally that would be the absolute best thing to happen, just for what it does for health, urban planning, quality of life, recreation, and integrating many other objectives at once.

It just seems crazy that here we have a city that is spending countless millions all at once to redo every downtown street, and apparently they did not even look at possible future trends. If they had an entire area of the city with bicycling infrastructure people would have eventually started to use their bicycles to get around, especially as more people move downtown. I just don't understand how Reno, especially going in front of a park, doesn't get bicycle infrastructure while Film Row does. Obviously there is still NO real plan to integrate bicycle traffic into traffic modes, which is discouraging for anyone who got their hopes up when they saw the one Film Row bicycle lane.

[Kerry]

I just lookd at the Project 180 Bike Diagram and nearly every street in P180 will have a dedicated 5 foot bike lane on both sides of the street.

http://www.okc.gov/project180/trafficdiagram.pdf

[metro]

It's looking spectacular, I will tell you that. I'll try to get high res pics this week.

[Spartan]

Alright thanks metro, I'll await those pics..

And Kerry, Larry is right that the downtown core does seem to be mostly excluded from bike lanes. It's especially odd that not even Hudson or Robinson will have any kind of bike lanes.

[mcca7596]

Project180 thinks that "sharrow" lanes will do on most of the downtown streets apparently. :-(

[metro]

Robinson will have the streetcar, so maybe that's why. There are plenty of main streets in NYC with no bike lanes.

[Snowman]

In Amsterdam I've come to appreciate the system where the bicycle lane is always between the street parking and the sidewalk, basically it's own sidewalk. In Copenhagen they have a separate network of "bicycle roads" that cut through parks, waterfronts, forests, buildings, etc..and the bicycle roads have their own traffic signals. It's really cool.

The 2008 plans diagrams had the ones running with streets that have parking between the right most street lane and the parked car lane, if it had been outside the parked cars next to the curb it might not have been as much of an issue.

[Larry OKC]

Kerry: thanks for posting the link. It isn't exactly the same document I have but presume they are very similar (both were produced by OJB)

Alright thanks metro, I'll await those pics..

And Kerry, Larry is right that the downtown core does seem to be mostly excluded from bike lanes. It's especially odd that not even Hudson or Robinson will have any kind of bike lanes.

When did I say that? Looks to me that the vast majority of the Project 180 has bike paths with the majority of those being dedicated (mostly east/west) with the "sharrow" ones being mostly north/south

[Spartan]

Spatan: the map I downloaded dated 8/21/10 (sorry, don't know from where or how to upload it, but if you send me your email address in a PM, I can try sending it to you if you want)...anyway, the map has Reno labeled but it is at the bottom of the map, and doesn't show any bike routes were planned (but may have just been "cut off")????

But it does show dedicated lane on the East side (Robinson) of MG, nothing on the west side (Hudson), a "Sharrow" (shared vehicle/bike) on the North edge (Sheridan)

Dedicated lanes on Sheridan (north edge of Stage Center) and West edge (Walker)

Ah, indeed you didn't say "the downtown core won't have much in the way of bicycle lanes" but this is what I was referring to.

[Kerry]

Sharrows are all the rage in Santa Fe, Portland and Seattle. There, that should change a few opinions.

[USG'60]

What is a sharrow?

[swilki]

What is a sharrow?

A sharrow or 'shared lane marking (SLM)' is a pavement marking installed on streets popular with bicyclists but too narrow for conventional bike lanes. The sharrow is installed 11 feet from the curb, or approximately 4 feet from parked cars. It is intended to indicate where bicyclists should ride to avoid traveling within the door zone of parked cars. It also alerts motorists to share the road with bicyclists and conveys that the street is a preferred bike route.

Sharrows are all the rage in Santa Fe, Portland and Seattle. There, that should change a few opinions.

OKC has actually been putting these in. The most recent example I can think of is on Hefner between the Hefner Parkway and Western I believe. They make sense, but I don't know how safe they are for actual bikers since half the people in this town don't realize that bikers also have a right to use the pavement.

[Kerry]

OKC has actually been putting these in. The most recent example I can think of is on Hefner between the Hefner Parkway and Western I believe. They make sense, but I don't know how safe they are for actual bikers since half the people in this town don't realize that bikers also have a right to use the pavement.

While reading up on them on Portland and Seattle bike discussion boards, the purpose of the painted markers is to inform drivers that Yes - the bikes are supposed to be there. They have been well received by bikers in Pacific NW. Portland is adding 90 sharrow (share with an arrow) lanes a week and will soon have over 3000 of them.

[Urban Pioneer]

Take my comment with a grain of salt as I do not know much about what/where the "sharrow" lanes are.

But, with that said, I remember Andrea French talking about how the bike lanes will be specifically different colored concrete than the rest of the street. And I don't mean paint on the surface. They are actually mixing coloring into the concrete and scoring lines to further delineate the lane from vehicle lanes.

And it really is happening because I have seen this narrow lane on some of the finished P180 street sections. Hope that helps.

[Kerry]

UP - those are dedicted bike lanes. A sharrow is a losely defined section of the road that the bikes are supposed to ride in. The on-pavement markings let the bikes know where they are supposed to be and reminds the driver that it is okay for the bikes to be there. Look at it this way. It is the difference between the streetcar having a dedicaed right of way vs sharing a lane with traffic. The shared portion is called a sharrow, or in the case of the streetcar I guess it would be called a shrail.

[Snowman]

Did anyone else laugh at the reminder in the lane marker to wear a helmet?

[Larry OKC]

you would need a helmet too if you were trying to balance the jumbo, oversized open books on your head while riding your bike...LOL

[Spartan]

Sharrows are all the rage in Santa Fe, Portland and Seattle. There, that should change a few opinions.

I like sharrow lanes. So why won't there be any on Hudson, for example?

[Kerry]

I like sharrow lanes. So why won't there be any on Hudson, for example?

I think Hudson will be the only four lane road left on that side of downtown. It is the only street in project 180 that doesn't have a bike lane or sharrow.

[Spartan]

Does anyone really know that the deal is with Hudson?

I suspect it has more to do with budget issues, and utility relocation that would be required to deal with Hudson.

Still NO reason to not restripe the pavement and still work on the streetscape a little bit.

[soonerguru]

Project180 thinks that "sharrow" lanes will do on most of the downtown streets apparently. :-(

If true, that is a MAJOR disappointment. It is amazing how much hype we read in the Oklahoman about planned city projects and what they actually become when completed.

[mcca7596]

If true, that is a MAJOR disappointment. It is amazing how much hype we read in the Oklahoman about planned city projects and what they actually become when completed.

After looking more closely at the plans, it looks like there is actually an equal amount, and maybe even more, of true bicycle lanes compared to "sharrow" markings.

Sorry about that mistake.