Thoughts on Downtown Parks

[jbrown84]

Blair Humphreys recently posted an entry at his blog ImagiNATIVEAmerica on the "top 10 must haves" for our new downtown central park. I thought it was a very worthwile discussion worth bringing up here.

imagiNATIVEamerica » Ten Must-Haves for OKC’s Downtown Park

Here is the abbreviated list:

#10 Model Sailboats
#9 Ice Rink
#8 Flower Garden
#7 A Great Lawn
#6 Beautiful Bridges
#5 The Crumrine Carousel
#4 Public Art
#3 Outdoor Concert Venue
#2 World Class Fountain
#1 The Oklahoma Land Run Monument

That last one is somewhat controversial, so I will post his thoughts.

This massive bronze sculpture by Norman artist Paul Moore depicts Oklahoma’s most famous moment. The monument is located south of I-40, near the Bass Pro Shop and spanning the most southern portion of the canal. The current location falls far short of ideal. We need to move this incredible work to a prominent location in our new park where it can get the attention it deserves. The pictures shown are from Doug Loudenback’s extensive overview of the project - worth checking out if you would like to learn more.

I think it's a very good list. I think we do need to be careful to not look like we are just ripping of NYC's Central Park directly. Sailboats, Bandshell, Carousel, etc. I'm not too worried about that though.

We also need to keep in mind that the Myriad Gardens will be undergoing significant renovations, likely much sooner than when the central park comes to be. Some of these elements can and should go in the Myriad Gardens.

Here's my lists:

Top 10 Must-Haves for Redbud Park (new central park)

1. Monumental Arch

This would work great as a grand entrance on the south side of the boulevard.

2. World Class Fountains

Multiple fountains in classical style of different sizes.

3. Great Lawn with Bandshell
This is an obvious choice because of the multitude of uses.

4. Public Art/Classical Statues
A good start would be a statue of Ralph Ellison, a literary giant who has nothing significant in his honor in his native OKC.

5. A Hedge Maze

This is something that as far as I know, would be very unique for the region. There is a very cool one at Leeds Castle in England that has an underground grotto at the center when you complete the maze. It connects to a "secret" tunnel that takes you back outside the maze.

6. Formal Gardens
This would have to be careful to not "step on the toes" of the Myriad Gardens, but this could work if it's actually more formal, like the gardens at Philbrook.

7. Redbud Grove

These would look great when in bloom, and especially if they the water similar to the cherry trees on the Tidal Pool in D.C. This is our state tree and there is no place that has them in mass.

8. Duck Pond with Paddle Boats
This would be just one more activity for visitors. My favorite park growing up in Salt Lake City, Liberty Park, had these.

9. Museum/Restaurant in Union Station
The building is large enough to house a museum as well as a restaurant with some outdoor seating--sort of a cross between the Met and Tavern on the Green. Perhaps the OKCMOA could move its more classical art here and use the current building for modern and contemporary art.

10. "Natural" Area

I would like to see something like The Ramble in Central Park, which contains meandering paths, thick forest, and natural stone, all designed to appear natural. Our park may be too small for this to fit, however.


Top 10 Must-Haves for the new Myriad Gardens

1. More Actual Gardens
The NE corner is the only section that really feels like a garden, and that was only created about 10 years ago. One idea that would be cool is some kind of terraced area on the steep hill/bowl east of the Crystal Bridge.



2. Replace Dated Signage
There is a lot of signage that has become very dated, both aesthetically and the actual information on it.

3. Replace Rusty Metal Elements
There are several places where metal was used as walls to hold up hills. It's now rusted and looks cheap and tacky. I'd suggest replacing these elements, as well as some of the concrete walls with white travertine, since there is already a white theme.


4. Modern Architecture
See above. The Getty Center is a good example of something that is modern but wont look dated in 20 years. Replace all the "grand entranceways" and get rid of the tacky neon.

5. Modern Style Water Features

Something that includes a wading pool that people can actually get in would be really great.

6. Outdoor Cafes
This would attract downtown workers on lunch and visitors to linger in the gardens longer.

7. Expanded/Renovated Ampitheatre for OSP
I believe this is already happening thanks to Devon.

8. Close Hudson on West Side
Close Hudson on the west side to traffic, but leave it paved. Soften the edges of the garden as well as the block on the other side. This way the park kind of continues across the street to Festival Plaza. Place the outdoor cafes near here and use this paved area for outdoor seating.


9. Better Lighting
Self Explanatory. People should not be afraid to be there after dark.

10. Reopen Underground Areas
These areas, especially the smaller bridge, should be reopened if possible.


As far as the Land Run Monument goes, I can see the argument for moving it to the central park, but I think it is a good anchor for the south canal, and will see more traffic as the tunnel and canal extension under I-40 opens. I think the monument needs to be accompanied by some sort of museum about the land run, one of our most unique historical events. The parking lot there is a good place for this.

Also, I'm torn about whether the ice rink should move to the central park or stay where it is. Should we share the wealth by spreading some of these things throughout downtown?

[betts]

Personally, I'd just like it to be a beautiful natural park, ala Central Park, with lots of paths to walk on, but I'd be fine with other additions if that's what people want. I like the Maze idea, and I know there's a rose garden planned, which sounds good to me.

[FritterGirl]

They are looking at several other parks as "inspiration" for the Myriad Botanical Gardens.

One that might give you an idea of what they are considering to a certain degree is Houston's Discovery green. Of course, this is just a springboard for ideas.

Other parks mentioned during the Public Meeting included Millennium Park (Chicago), Post Office Square Park (Boston) and Bryant Park (NYC)

There is still lots of concepting to do, and they'll take the public comments, as well as those of the key stakeholders, into consideration, especially given how the population of the area will change with the Devon building across the street (needs to be some connectivity between the MBG and the Devon's public green space), plus the 2,000 employees, and downtown residents, as well.
Discovery Green Houston Downtown Park - See. Touch. Hear. Taste. Explore. Discovery Green is about 14 acres, I believe. The MBG is 17 acres.

They also obviously want to consider how the Gardens will differ from the concepts of what will eventually be in the new Core to Shore Park. (I love the name Red Bud park, by the way. Nice touch.)

Some of the elements that seemed to be most "popular" among those who attended the public meeting included:

- restaurant(s) - one full-service restaurant on the SE corner near the Ford Center?; another coffee klatch/sandwich kiosk near the NE (perhaps with water overview?)
- interactive kids area with botanical element, interactive water element, sculptural/artistic-looking "play" aparatus;
- some kinds of water elements - fountains; "passive" recreation on existing waters - toy sailboat races, etc.
maybe a water spray "plaza" that could be a kids' area during the day, but could have colored and choreographed water show at night - or even an area that could be
structured such that it could become an ice rink at night.
- dog "space" - not a traditional dog park, but at least a smaller off-leash space for 4-legged downtown residents and their people
- flat open multi-purpose space for casual, impromptu soccer games, softball, frisbee, picnicikng other activities
- movie screen / area for movie nights
- some berms may be lowered or changed so as to give Gardens a more open presence; not so blocked off from the street
- additional intense botanical elements that will have educational element
- area perhaps near coffee / cafe that would have "movable" furniture (folding chairs/tables) - have places to play chess/checkers, bacci ball, other similar games (very European)
-WiFi
- possible consideration for how park will connect to arts area on the west (Hudson), as well as Core to Shore

Things that won't move or change:

Crystal Bridge (will be reskinned in 2010 - funding from General Obligation Bond, not TIF or other funds)
Water Stage - may be expanded, but will not be moved

There were gobs of other ideas presented, but those above seemed to have been much more popular among the groups who shared their ideas.

[jbrown84]

Thanks!

There just seems to be way too much going on in Discovery Park, unless they are planning on completely gutting the Myriad Gardens and starting over, which would be silly when many of these things would work just as well in the Central Park.

[FritterGirl]

It's still too early in the process to know if they will completely "gut" the park. The lead landscape architect told the group how lucky we are in that the Gardens has "really good bones." They were also impressed with the trees.

So, just conjecturing here, but I would expect some sense of at least "restructuring" areas, but not a complete gutting, as it were. They will certainly repurpose many areas that are currently underutilized.

Keep in mind this will be really the northern point for Core to Shore, and as additional businesses continue to build along the area, and more residents / multi-use areas are established, each will create their own "neighborhood" within the downtown corridor, all requiring their own park needs.

While there may be some duplication, I think ultimately what you'll see in the MBG will be on a smaller scale than how they will concept C2S.

[jbrown84]

That sounds good.

As long as they don't rip out any trees or the Crystal Bridge, I can see just about everything else being completely redone.

[CuatrodeMayo]

I was thinking about this very thing just the other day. I imagine a park as more than just a conglomeration of stuff to do, but as a living room for a city. I fear we will try to cram so much stuff into the park, the it will not function as such.

The strength of Central Park is not is things to do, but is public space.

This is how I imagine our new park:

[metro]

That sounds good.

As long as they don't rip out any trees or the Crystal Bridge, I can see just about everything else being completely redone.

Many trees will be transplanted to other areas of the park. The Crystal Bridge is already getting a facelift soon ala the City with new glass windows soon.

[westsidesooner]

I'm surprised this thread doesn't have about 100 posts by now. Considering the new park will be the centerpiece of the new downtown it is important to get it right the first itme.

I love the idea of patio cafes along Hudson and the monumental arches would be a nice formal entry into the gardens.

I also like the hedge maze, but it seems like it would be hard to police what happens inside at night.

Fountains definitely. And I like the water garden aspect too, but I know they've had a lot of problems with children drowning at the one in Ft. Worth. So maybe a pondless water garden park would work better.

other features I'd like

toy sailboat park would be nice
merry go round
checker/chess tables
terracing the east end of the lake at MG and landscaping it.
some vertical tubes lit up at night as sculpture to compliment the Botanical tube

The redbud grove has always been a drem of mine. If I had the land Id have my own redbud forest. I have 4 now, icestorms killed the others. And a doqwood forest. Beautiful in mass plantings. Do cherry trees do well here?

I'd leave the land run monument where it is and enhance the landscaping on that end of the canal. In the best scenario we would extend the canal and the monument would get a lot more attention. I could see maybe placing one or two large pieces of the monument in the gardens....maybe they could be the Sooners; crossing the line early

BTW I love this guy...

not sure if it would work here except on a much smaller scale. But it could be a possibility on the east or wet end of the current lake at the gardens

[jbrown84]

I also like the hedge maze, but it seems like it would be hard to police what happens inside at night.

You'd have to look at what they do in other places. I'm sure it would be daylight hours only, and close it with a gate at dark. Someone could hide in there but they'd be trapped all night. Maybe have to have security cameras.

[OKCMallen]

I am sure technology has sufficiently advanced so as to keep a hedge maze safe at night.

[CCOKC]

I would love to see public baseball/ softball or soccer fields. Don't know if we need more people living downtown first or if this would be a great centrally located space to bring more people downtown but it would bring people downtown for a purpose.

[John]

I would love to see public baseball/ softball or soccer fields. Don't know if we need more people living downtown first or if this would be a great centrally located space to bring more people downtown but it would bring people downtown for a purpose.

I dont have the renderings pulled up just yet, but I remember seeing some incorporated on the SW corner of C2S... Not in the 'central park' but close enough?

[CCOKC]

Yeah, I remember that too.

[Kerry]

A hedge maze would be cool (and fun). YouTube - Trigger Happy TV hedge maze

I would also like to see a large fountain (erupting oil well?) and maybe a space for street performers ala Mallory Dock in Key West.

[ssandedoc]

How big of a park are we talking here?

I'm so in favor of an outdoor amphitheater, the zoo is not cutting it. Could you imagine 30,000 people outside for a Sheryl Crow concert or something, would be a lot of fun.

[CuatrodeMayo]

*sticks finger down throat*

[jbrown84]

I would also like to see a large fountain (erupting oil well?)

TELL ME you're joking...

[Platemaker]

How big of a park are we talking here?

Here is a size comparison from the first Core to Shore presentation... gives you an idea of what we can fit into the park.

Remember, however, there is the long skinny park on the south side of the new I-40 (Promenade Park) east of what they are calling the 'North Shore Mews'. It is half as wide and 1.5 times deep as the main part of Redbud Park.

[FritterGirl]

For reference, above:

Myriad Botanical Gardens - 17 acres
Proposed Core 2 Shore Park - approx. 40-50 acres (depending on final design).

Washington Park, Denver: 162 acres
City Park, Denver: 330 acres
Central Park, NYC: 843 acres
Golden Gate Park, San Francisco: 1,017 acres
Forest Park, St. Louis: 1,293 acres

You can actually do quite a bit in a small space and still have plenty of space left over for large "green" spaces for both active and passive recreation.

[jbrown84]

Interesting. I had not seen that image before.

FritterGirl, is that 40-50 acre figure including the smaller section south of I-40? Hopefully not.

I really wish it was going to be bigger. Before the official plans were released, I was advocating a much larger park, from Walker to Robinson all the way to the river. This will be a GREAT new park, but it won't come close to Golden Gate or Central Parks, which I think are the ultimate urban parks in the U.S.

My idea also would have put Union Station right in the center, as opposed to being off-center as it is in the current plan. Just eyeballing it, it looks like it would have been about 10 times the size of the Myriad Gardens. With the current plan, we're looking at more like 4x the Myriad Gardens if you include the smaller section south of I-40.

[westsidesooner]

How big of a park are we talking here?

I'm so in favor of an outdoor amphitheater, the zoo is not cutting it. Could you imagine 30,000 people outside for a Sheryl Crow concert or something, would be a lot of fun.

Good Idea SS. I went to the Journey/ Cheap Trick/Heart concert this summer and thought about how we needed a better outdoor concert venue. I like the Zoo Amp. but mainly for all the memories. It's small and the bathrooms are pretty outdated. If theres not enough room in the C2S park (heres a pic to show a smaller and SHADED alternative for the park)
we could always build one on the rivershore or at the Downtown Airpark with the ferris wheel (whatever happened to that). Lets make it an Eagles or Doobie Brothers concert though!!

Another thing I was wondering........."holding my breath and slinking in my chair knowing this idea won't sit well with some posters here"..........Balboa Park Balboa is my favorite city park. Everytime I go to SD I end up going there and usually having lunch or dinner in one of the restaurants. The buildings are beautiful and historic, the gardens are amazing, and theres enough things to do to keep a family busy all day. The Prado restaurant is excellent, and now everytime I see the Union Station building in downtown OKC I imagine it being refurbished the same way. I don't know much about the interior spaces of Union Station but it looks like it could work as a restaurant and gift shop/art museum. Imagine a patio with outdoor dining overlookin or spilling into the park on the buildings north side. From what I can tell on the C2S renderings the Union station building is still there on the sothwest corner of the north side of the park, overlooking what appears to be a formal garden area and lake. It would have Awesome views of the park and the skyline and be right next to the new pedestrian bridge (if I'm correct) crossing I-40.

Balboa park has a carousel, a mini railroad and lots of other things we could incorporate into the new park in downtown OKC. I'm not advocating trying to copy what another city has already done because theres no way you could compare the two parks. In size, history or architecture.

[jbrown84]

This compares Denver's City Park, San Francisco's Golden Gate Park, St. Louis' Forest Park, and Chicago's Millennium/Grant Park with our C2S park(s), with the darker green being the proposal and the lighter being what I advocated in discussions on here and OKMet.

They are all to the same scale via GoogleMaps.

[bluedogok]

We have really enjoyed the Boson Common/Public Garden and NYC Central Park in our travels up there. I agree with CuatrodeMayo, it needs to be a park and not a city amusement park. Trying to do "too much" will just make it seem cramped and too busy. Just walking through Central Park on a Saturday afternoon last month with people out soaking up the sun or playing softball was just great.

OKC has needed a new amphitheater venue other than the Zoo for a long, long time, there are many tours that play almost exclusively "shed shows" that bypass OKC because it doesn't have a facility that meets the needs for those. I think an amphitheater nearby the park but not in the park (at its current proposed size) would be perfect. I worked on a masterplan years ago for a proposed development that has one in the near downtown area but I guess that is still just a dream.

[jbrown84]

You are very right BlueDog.

Looking at those size comparisons, I think we definitely could fall into the trap of trying to do too much in our park. It's nowhere near the size of the parks that have all these things. I say leave the ice rink and Land Run Sculpture where they are, and give a couple things to the Myriad Gardens and then we can talk about what there is room for in the C2S park.