Oklahoma's backward liquor laws.

[jett713]

I don't know if this is the right place to post this. But I would be really PO'd if I was cut off after three or four drinks. I go to the bar to unwind and get tipsy. It's no wonder the rest of the country laughs at us for our outdated liquor laws.

http://newsok.com/bricktown-bar-mana...rticle/3690882

and the manager being arrested for one woman's lack of underwear. That is just being a bit prudish IMHO. But you go to the bar to drink and have a good time. Being cut off like that is going to ruin a lot of bars and people won't come back. I know i wouldn't. Something has to be done about this or am I the only one that thinks so?

[SSEiYah]

I liked the lost ogle post on this article.

http://www.thelostogle.com/2012/07/0...ut-at-rok-bar/

I think the bartender should have some responsibility, but its not like he has the ability to run a breathalyzer on everyone, some people appear sober and are very drunk. (not bragging here) but if I have food in my stomach, I can drink 8-10 drinks in a couple hours and still be coherent and appear "not drunk".

If someone is stumbling around, and out of control, yes they should be cut off.

[BBatesokc]

Its called responsible service. Laws against public drunkenness inside a bar are nothing new and not unique to Oklahoma and certainly are not 'backwards.'

I bartended for many years and even taught bartending at night.

What's backwards is, in this day and age being of the mind its socially acceptable or even expected that you should be allowed to go into a bar and get hammered off your ass. With the thousands of people that are killed by drunk (or even buzzed) drivers, I'm thankful local law enforcement takes this seriously.

You wanna get hammered, stay home and drink.

Also, the bartender is often held responsible (along with the manager) for over-serving. However, in larger establishments or in cases where waitstaff is utilized, often individual bartenders have no idea how many drinks a patron has had - so the manager is held responsible.

Determining drunkenness doesn't require a breathalyzer. A good bartender knows if he's served someone as much as they should - regardless how the patron claims they feel.

[jett713]

I know all about "responsible service" and what it is. I didn't say anything about getting hammered. I said get a little "tipsy". What I'm talking about is cutting someone off after three or four alcoholic drinks or 6,7 beers. Last Time I checked people go to the bar to drink and be social. I can drink 8-12 beers and still be fine not bragging or anything. But I would be pissed If I had 6 beers and they said i couldn't have another.

[ljbab728]

I know all about "responsible service" and what it is. I didn't say anything about getting hammered. I said get a little "tipsy". What I'm talking about is cutting someone off after three or four alcoholic drinks or 6,7 beers. Last Time I checked people go to the bar to drink and be social. I can drink 8-12 beers and still be fine not bragging or anything. But I would be pissed If I had 6 beers and they said i couldn't have another.

jett, there is no set number of beers or drinks that apply in this policy. It is subjective and judgement has to be used. It the management thought you were impared after 6 beers I think they have every right to curtail your service and I would support that. Many people have much different tolerances for alcohol and while you may be fine after 6 beers, the 90 pound girl next to you might be ready to fall on the floor.

[BBatesokc]

jett, there is no set number of beers or drinks that apply in this policy. It is subjective and judgement has to be used. It the management thought you were impared after 6 beers I think they have every right to curtail your service and I would support that. Many people have much different tolerances for alcohol and while you may be fine after 6 beers, the 90 pound girl next to you might be ready to fall on the floor.

Agreed. I think Jett713 was reading something that was not stated. As a bartender I was legally responsible for your actions in many cases after serving you. That may mean 1 drink or it mat mean a dozen.

'How many drinks' is subjective. Depends on the type of drink - beer, highball, cocktail, shot, wine etc. Each has its own unique amount of alcohol.

Additionally, it doesn't matter in the slightest how you 'feel' when it comes to impairment. Many people claim to feel fine but they'd still fail a breathalyzer and THAT is the legal line for everyone involved. There is really no truth in being 'high tolerance' for alcohol when it comes to impairment. Its simply math based on roughly your size, physical condition and amount of alcohol consumed over a period of time. Same goes for sobering up - alcohol only leaves your body at a certain rate and there is nothing you can do to aid that but wait.

Also, for many people, once you feel 'tipsy' its too late - you're legally drunk and your motor skills and judgement just went out the window.

[Jesseda]

Its called responsible service. Laws against public drunkenness inside a bar are nothing new and not unique to Oklahoma and certainly are not 'backwards.'

I bartended for many years and even taught bartending at night.

What's backwards is, in this day and age being of the mind its socially acceptable or even expected that you should be allowed to go into a bar and get hammered off your ass. With the thousands of people that are killed by drunk (or even buzzed) drivers, I'm thankful local law enforcement takes this seriously.

You wanna get hammered, stay home and drink.

Also, the bartender is often held responsible (along with the manager) for over-serving. However, in larger establishments or in cases where waitstaff is utilized, often individual bartenders have no idea how many drinks a patron has had - so the manager is held responsible.

Determining drunkenness doesn't require a breathalyzer. A good bartender knows if he's served someone as much as they should - regardless how the patron claims they feel.

Such a great response BBatesokc. I wish all bartenders cut people off after a couple. My brother and his fiance Died due to a drunk driver, its one thing to go out and have a couple drinks to unwind its another to go out and get tipsy-wasted and get behind a wheel. If oklahoma is backwards because they are cutting people off at a couple drinks then so be it, I dont mind at all, actually I love it that I live in a Backwards drinking law state

[Bunty]

I know all about "responsible service" and what it is. I didn't say anything about getting hammered. I said get a little "tipsy". What I'm talking about is cutting someone off after three or four alcoholic drinks or 6,7 beers. Last Time I checked people go to the bar to drink and be social. I can drink 8-12 beers and still be fine not bragging or anything. But I would be pissed If I had 6 beers and they said i couldn't have another.

Maybe you better get a breathalyzer to help you determine if you're safe to drive. That's what I do. If the reading registers higher than .4, I don't consider myself safe enough to drive and put off driving for a while. As for me, I know I wouldn't be safe to drive after 8-12 beers and would have to wait until well after the bars close before driving home. If I have to drive, I never have as much as 8-12 beers in one night. People who think they're fine to drive have checked out to levels as high as .15 or higher by the police.

[BoulderSooner]

who was talking about driving???

[Jesseda]

who was talking about driving???

Sorry I guess reading the story on the link about being served liquor to people in bars and them getting tore up then leaving has nothing to do with them possibly driving home intoxicated, sorry for the mistake

[BoulderSooner]

Sorry I guess reading the story on the link about being served liquor to people in bars and them getting tore up then leaving has nothing to do with them possibly driving home intoxicated, sorry for the mistake

yes because that is how we make laws and enforce things as a society ...

x person might drive later so they can't have another drink now ...

y person might kill someone later so we better not sell them a gun or a knife for that matter

[Jesseda]

yes because that is how we make laws and enforce things as a society ...

x person might drive later so they can't have another drink now ...

y person might kill someone later so we better not sell them a gun or a knife for that matter

WOW and I was the one who was leading away from the intoxicated liquor story? lol

[bandnerd]

There's no way to know what a person's limit is. Everyone metabolizes alcohol at different rates, and you can't tell that by looking at someone. It also depends on what you're drinking. Most can have a lot more Bud Light than Long Island Iced Teas, because the alcohol content is so different. I would say someone who has had three Bud Lights over the course of a few hours is totally fine to drive...the person drinking three LIT's in the same amount of time likely wouldn't be. The bartender unfortunately has to make that call, and sometimes they make the wrong one.

Really, though, the only alcohol laws in this state that are really backward are the no sales on Sundays, holidays, and election days (did they change that one?) laws.

[RadicalModerate]

There's no way to know what a person's limit is. Everyone metabolizes alcohol at different rates, and you can't tell that by looking at someone. It also depends on what you're drinking. Most can have a lot more Bud Light than Long Island Iced Teas, because the alcohol content is so different. I would say someone who has had three Bud Lights over the course of a few hours is totally fine to drive...the person drinking three LIT's in the same amount of time likely wouldn't be. The bartender unfortunately has to make that call, and sometimes they make the wrong one.

Really, though, the only alcohol laws in this state that are really backward are the no sales on Sundays, holidays, and election days (did they change that one?) laws.

Excellent observations.
(even for a musical instructor person =)
No kidding.

So . . . How does all of this fit with "Open Carry" as compared to "Concealed Carry" within this paradigm . . .?
(vis-a-vis/spec. ref.) personal intentions to "do the right thing"--not to be confused with "the left thing")

I once was a bartender, empowered by the club owner to use the pistol stashed under the bar. I only pulled it out once. And had every intention of using it. Thank [goodness] the asshole (suited Oil-Field Trash) banging his "girlfriend's" head on the windshield of his car after I extended the opportunity for both of them to exit the premises pulled a knife on me. I returned to my station, grabbed the pistol, and went back outside. Thankfully, the dust and gravel he sprayed while making his hasty exit from the parking lot still hung in the air. Instead of the alternative. =)

Sorry . . . That was Off-Topic:
Oklahoma should consider adjusting the laws regarding "Spirits" and other intoxicating beverages to reflect the fact that this is now the 21st Century and if people don't know how to behave properly in a social setting they can Google the answer. I think that the Missouri and/or Wisconsin Models could provide workable input for consideration.

[bandnerd]

Excellent observations.
(even for a musical instructor person =)
No kidding.

I'm not sure whether to be insulted or flattered

[Bunty]

There's no way to know what a person's limit is. Everyone metabolizes alcohol at different rates, and you can't tell that by looking at someone. It also depends on what you're drinking. Most can have a lot more Bud Light than Long Island Iced Teas, because the alcohol content is so different. I would say someone who has had three Bud Lights over the course of a few hours is totally fine to drive...the person drinking three LIT's in the same amount of time likely wouldn't be. The bartender unfortunately has to make that call, and sometimes they make the wrong one.

Really, though, the only alcohol laws in this state that are really backward are the no sales on Sundays, holidays, and election days (did they change that one?) laws.

Liquor stores can now open on election days. Getting rid of 3.2% beer needs to be done, also and allowing sales of wines in grocery stores.

[bandnerd]

Liquor stores can now open on election days. Getting rid of 3.2% beer needs to be done, also and allowing sales of wines in grocery stores.

I wasn't sure about the election day thing, but if I could have put money on it, I would have said we could. I know Memorial Day, Independence, Christmas, T-Day, and all those other family-oriented holidays (where we need alcohol the most, most likely) are all out fo' sho'. It would be nice to have wine in grocery stores, and I have never understood that pesky 3.2 law.

[Soonerman]

Liquor stores can now open on election days. Getting rid of 3.2% beer needs to be done, also and allowing sales of wines in grocery stores.

This

[Midtowner]

I guess it depends on the bar. I can't say that I've only seen a drunk at a bar piss his pants just once.

[onthestrip]

Was a letter to the editor in todays Oklahoman from a wine broker complaining how this new ballot measure that wants wine sold in groceries in 50,000+ populated counties will hurt local businesses. While he may be right we wouldnt be in this position if the liquor lobby wouldnt be so resistant to any change. Oklahomans that want convenience will try any incremental steps that allow us to buy wine and strong beer at groceries and on Sundays, even if that means some quasi ridiculous law that allows counties with 50,000+ people to have it in their grocery stores.

Id be for allowing liquor stores to sell other items if they would back off there hard stance.

[bandnerd]

I guess it depends on the bar. I can't say that I've only seen a drunk at a bar piss his pants just once.

God, that was pathetic.

[Midtowner]

Was a letter to the editor in todays Oklahoman from a wine broker complaining how this new ballot measure that wants wine sold in groceries in 50,000+ populated counties will hurt local businesses. While he may be right we wouldnt be in this position if the liquor lobby wouldnt be so resistant to any change. Oklahomans that want convenience will try any incremental steps that allow us to buy wine and strong beer at groceries and on Sundays, even if that means some quasi ridiculous law that allows counties with 50,000+ people to have it in their grocery stores.

Id be for allowing liquor stores to sell other items if they would back off there hard stance.

So Oklahomans are supposed to be conservative. Are we going to pick the winners and losers or let the free economy find the most efficient way for a product to find its way to the consumer?

[ljbab728]

Was a letter to the editor in todays Oklahoman from a wine broker complaining how this new ballot measure that wants wine sold in groceries in 50,000+ populated counties will hurt local businesses. While he may be right we wouldnt be in this position if the liquor lobby wouldnt be so resistant to any change. Oklahomans that want convenience will try any incremental steps that allow us to buy wine and strong beer at groceries and on Sundays, even if that means some quasi ridiculous law that allows counties with 50,000+ people to have it in their grocery stores.

Id be for allowing liquor stores to sell other items if they would back off there hard stance.

I read that letter and found it rather amusing. It started off by stating that there were misconceptions about what the proposed law would do and then provided absolutely nothing to show that anything was a misconception.

[rcjunkie]

I know all about "responsible service" and what it is. I didn't say anything about getting hammered. I said get a little "tipsy". What I'm talking about is cutting someone off after three or four alcoholic drinks or 6,7 beers. Last Time I checked people go to the bar to drink and be social. I can drink 8-12 beers and still be fine not bragging or anything. But I would be pissed If I had 6 beers and they said i couldn't have another.

This is a definite 10 on the BS meter. After consuming this many beers, you are no longer "safely" capable of operating a vehicle and I pray that you don't.

[bluedogok]

It isn't just Oklahoma, all states have some weird laws and even stranger interpretations by the various regulatory agencies. A couple of years ago in Austin the TABC was arresting people inside bars for PI with no breathalyzer or blood tests. The Texas AG finally had to weigh in on it and stop this practice.