What if... an Edmond "MAPS"?

[Hollywood]

So many topics covering so many subjects but wanted to venture down the "what if" rabbit hole. Was doing some research for a project proposal of which entails the history, population of, and classification of the city. Not know what I don't know, was surprised Edmond is actually not considered a "suburb" but instead a "Secondary City" which presumably can somewhat support itself. We know through stagnate ideas and NIMBYism that is not exactly true but it causes one to wonder what the city could do if it set its mind to it with respect to growth and projects that made "The Edmond Way" actually mean something.

Was curious for the sake of entertaining banter what you all would dream of doing within the city that would set it on a positive trajectory, increase revenue to maintain the level of services and bring attention upon the city.

[austinriley]

Walkability/bike-ability needs major work. So much of Edmond is sprawling neighborhoods serviced by 4 lane, traffic clogged roads, and the only way to get out of those areas is by car. Maybe close the downtown off to car traffic, set up a big nearby greenspace with plenty of parking?

[Silvershoes]

I think people would support something like this if it included all the needed road improvements. Every 4 lane road in town needs a 5th lane for turning and bridge all the train intersections at Danforth, 15th, 33rd and Kelly/Bdwy Extension. This alone would be massive. I think most who have lived here 5-10 years and beyond would agree that if it didn't take 30 minutes to get 5-6 miles through town we'd all be better for it........I think a City ran Aquarium similiar to what they have up in Tulsa would be a nice addition for the citizens not only of Edmond but in the Metro OKC......

[BoulderSooner]

was surprised Edmond is actually not considered a "suburb" but instead a "Secondary City".

considered by whom??

[Dob Hooligan]

I think it would be accurate that Edmond was originally a "Secondary City". If I recall the history lesson from the BancFirst ads correctly, Edmond was a train stop and then got a college. Seems like it was about a daily travel distance, like OKC to Edmond, Guthrie, Stillwater, Perry, etc.

I consider Warr Acres, The Village, Nichols Hills and other little spots to be "true" suburbs.

[Hollywood]

Walkability/bike-ability needs major work. So much of Edmond is sprawling neighborhoods serviced by 4 lane, traffic clogged roads, and the only way to get out of those areas is by car. Maybe close the downtown off to car traffic, set up a big nearby greenspace with plenty of parking?

With respect to Downtown, the way the "Streateries" are being done (appearance) looks horrible. I'd envision something like reducing it to one lane each direction doing one of two options.

One: Expand the sidewalks and the "Streateries" into what is now the outside lane.

Two: Place a greenbelt median about a lane in width down the middle, one lane each directions, then reduce the street side parking to again increase the sidewalk and "Streatery" space. Then augment the parking issue with a parking garage which is needed anyway.

I think people would support something like this if it included all the needed road improvements. Every 4 lane road in town needs a 5th lane for turning and bridge all the train intersections at Danforth, 15th, 33rd and Kelly/Bdwy Extension. This alone would be massive. I think most who have lived here 5-10 years and beyond would agree that if it didn't take 30 minutes to get 5-6 miles through town we'd all be better for it........I think a City ran Aquarium similiar to what they have up in Tulsa would be a nice addition for the citizens not only of Edmond but in the Metro OKC......

Traffic would be an absolute and it would be nice to say to the city "here is the funding, get it done and over with now, the right way from the start" and just knock it out before it is "needed" and thus inconveniences more people.

The aquarium idea is actually what sent my mind down the rabbit hole to begin with thinking "if OKC doesn't want it, then step up." Could put it along Route 66 to only enhance its tourism draw.

considered by whom??

It was meant with respect to fiscal stability and the ability to more or less self support itself. It is also relative. Is Edmond a secondary city the same way say some are in the LA Metro? No. But OKC isn't a "large" city in the way LA or the LA Metro is either. It was more is the city of a size with an economy that can support itself without the dependence you see in smaller cities and suburbs. Now... does Edmond act like it, that is another story and a no. Could it, absolutely.

[BoulderSooner]

It was meant with respect to fiscal stability and the ability to more or less self support itself. It is also relative. Is Edmond a secondary city the same way say some are in the LA Metro? No. But OKC isn't a "large" city in the way LA or the LA Metro is either. It was more is the city of a size with an economy that can support itself without the dependence you see in smaller cities and suburbs. Now... does Edmond act like it, that is another story and a no. Could it, absolutely.

thank you for the response

[GoGators]

Interesting question. If the city of Edmond were going to do a Maps type project it should poor it into making the area between UCO and downtown better connected and walkable. Not exactly sure what would be the best for this. Maybe partnering with UCO to build a parking garage to free up all those small surface lots between University and N. Blvd for development or placing some city owned amenities (aquarium?) in the area to help bridge the gap between the two areas. It may be as simple as just trying to make Hurd and Main as comfortable as possible for pedestrians and bikers.

Edmond has some real advantages that it should invest in for future growth and revenue. The downtown area is adding tons of amenities and destination type businesses right now. Dense(ish) housing is already starting to be proposed in the area. Once a commuter rail stop goes in, this area will not be able to handle the demand it will bring. The opportunity to live in a walkable community with easy access to amenities and passenger rail in the heart of Edmond will be attractive to a lot of people imo. Having a university with 20+ thousand students tied in to the area just adds to the potential vibrancy of the area and usefulness of a commuter stop. I think the potential for downtown Edmond is exponential and the city could do a lot to facilitate that potential.

[shartel_ave]

So many topics covering so many subjects but wanted to venture down the "what if" rabbit hole. Was doing some research for a project proposal of which entails the history, population of, and classification of the city. Not know what I don't know, was surprised Edmond is actually not considered a "suburb" but instead a "Secondary City" which presumably can somewhat support itself. We know through stagnate ideas and NIMBYism that is not exactly true but it causes one to wonder what the city could do if it set its mind to it with respect to growth and projects that made "The Edmond Way" actually mean something.

Was curious for the sake of entertaining banter what you all would dream of doing within the city that would set it on a positive trajectory, increase revenue to maintain the level of services and bring attention upon the city.

Of course Edmond could support itself as several less populated towns in the state do just that.

Lawton is close in population and has a university but it also has Fort Sill. Bartlesville does fine being 49 miles from Tulsa and not connected by an interstate.

[scottk]

Having a university with 20+ thousand students tied in to the area just adds to the potential vibrancy of the area and usefulness of a commuter stop. I think the potential for downtown Edmond is exponential and the city could do a lot to facilitate that potential.

20k? UCO enrollment has dropped significantly in recent years. Fall 2021 full time enrollment was under 9500, and many of the students drive to Edmond from OKC and other surrounding towns. Only about 10 percent of the student population lives on campus.

At one point UCO was close to 20k students, but I think that was about a decade ago.

[PoliSciGuy]

20k? UCO enrollment has dropped significantly in recent years. Fall 2021 full time enrollment was under 9500, and many of the students drive to Edmond from OKC and other surrounding towns. Only about 10 percent of the student population lives on campus.

At one point UCO was close to 20k students, but I think that was about a decade ago.

And it's only going to get worse for the short term. We have a demographic cliff coming in higher education, "peaking" in 2026 where we have historically low number of high school seniors graduating. With wages for non-college jobs increasing and college costs skyrocketing, the pool of college applicants is gonna drop significantly nationwide. This is why you see UCO and other institutions of higher ed slash budgets and jobs; it's gonna be a bumpy five years.

[GoGators]

20k? UCO enrollment has dropped significantly in recent years. Fall 2021 full time enrollment was under 9500, and many of the students drive to Edmond from OKC and other surrounding towns. Only about 10 percent of the student population lives on campus.

At one point UCO was close to 20k students, but I think that was about a decade ago.

Thanks for the info. I knew at one point it was the third largest student population in the state and wasn't to far behind OU and OSU in terms of enrolment. I know the vast majority are commuters and don't live on campus but I had no idea the student enrollment dropped off so much in recent years.

[rte66man]

I think people would support something like this if it included all the needed road improvements. Every 4 lane road in town needs a 5th lane for turning and bridge all the train intersections at Danforth, 15th, 33rd and Kelly/Bdwy Extension. .....

Kelley/Broadway ext is fully in OKC.

If they built under/overpasses, at least we wouldn't be subject to the crossings being closed for repairs. The 15th crossing has been "Repaired" twice n the 3 years I've had to use it.

[Rover]

20k? UCO enrollment has dropped significantly in recent years. Fall 2021 full time enrollment was under 9500, and many of the students drive to Edmond from OKC and other surrounding towns. Only about 10 percent of the student population lives on campus.

At one point UCO was close to 20k students, but I think that was about a decade ago.

they were at about 17,000 10 yrs ago and last fall were about 12,000.

[jerrywall]

So Edmond does already have our own MAPS, of a sort. It's our CIP tax. We have a 3/4 cent sales tax for these large improvement projects. Over the years this fund has provided us Pelican Bay, new parks, the trail networks they've been working on, the intelligent traffic system, sidewalk expansions, the quiet zone railroad crossings, the new public safety building, etc. Here's a list of the projects funded by the sales tax (voted in in 2000 and again in 2017).

https://www.edmondok.gov/DocumentCen...-2017-CIP-List

Also, there's a good breakdown of ongoing and planned CIP projects here -
https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories...f3ea955e5ec42d

[jerrywall]

Interesting question. If the city of Edmond were going to do a Maps type project it should poor it into making the area between UCO and downtown better connected and walkable. Not exactly sure what would be the best for this. Maybe partnering with UCO to build a parking garage to free up all those small surface lots between University and N. Blvd for development or placing some city owned amenities (aquarium?) in the area to help bridge the gap between the two areas. It may be as simple as just trying to make Hurd and Main as comfortable as possible for pedestrians and bikers.

This connection is actually a big part of Edmond's plan for the CBD. I know they've been really working on that area and that connection, and there are some interesting mixed use projects going in between the downtown and UCO.

[ChaseDweller]

I've always thought that downtown should be one lane each way with parallel parking/protected bike lanes and much wider sidewalks for outdoor dining. There's just no need to have 2 lanes each way. I also think Boulevard should be one lane each way between Second (maybe even 15th) and Danforth with bike lanes on either side. The only issue is Russell Dougherty drop off and pickup, but I think you could move that to the back of the school without much trouble. UCO wants to develop a campus corner like area west of their campus - partner with them for housing, restaurants, shops, etc. and make that whole area more walkable. It could be awesome.

[Plutonic Panda]

I do think Edmond is studying making Broadway one lane each way but they seem intent on keeping the angled parking which is a bummer. They need to reduce it to parallel parking so there can be bus and bike lanes with an expanded sidewalk.

[BoulderSooner]

I do think Edmond is studying making Broadway one lane each way but they seem intent on keeping the angled parking which is a bummer. They need to reduce it to parallel parking so there can be bus and bike lanes with an expanded sidewalk.

only north of 2nd street ... and there is no reason to have a bus lane on this section at all .

[Plutonic Panda]

only north of 2nd street ... and there is no reason to have a bus lane on this section at all .

Maybe not now but in the future there will be.

And yes I agree north of second street preferably to Danforth at some point down the line.

[jerrywall]

Maybe not now but in the future there will be.

And yes I agree north of second street preferably to Danforth at some point down the line.

Well, at least 2nd to Ayers. I'm not sure if the stretch all the way to Danforth is justified at this time, unless they really want to plan for that to be a core part of the CBD in the future.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, at least 2nd to Ayers. I'm not sure if the stretch all the way to Danforth is justified at this time, unless they really want to plan for that to be a core part of the CBD in the future.

Yeah I agree with this. I just meant in the long run it’d be cool to see some more mixed-use structures pushing to danforth but that won’t happen anytime soon.

[onthestrip]

So Edmond does already have our own MAPS, of a sort. It's our CIP tax. We have a 3/4 cent sales tax for these large improvement projects. Over the years this fund has provided us Pelican Bay, new parks, the trail networks they've been working on, the intelligent traffic system, sidewalk expansions, the quiet zone railroad crossings, the new public safety building, etc. Here's a list of the projects funded by the sales tax (voted in in 2000 and again in 2017).

https://www.edmondok.gov/DocumentCen...-2017-CIP-List

Also, there's a good breakdown of ongoing and planned CIP projects here -
https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories...f3ea955e5ec42d

And heres this video that Edmond just put out the other day that breaks down sales taxes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viw11rm6-bM

[Hollywood]

Was reading the streatgic goals this City Counsel laid out for 2022 and it is promising. Maybe not thinking "big" but it is progress of thought. Once curiosity sent me off to Google.

Edmond Sales Tax Rate: 8.5%
OKC Sales Tax Rate: 8.63%

While it is nice being lower than OKC... lets just admit that it is not drawing business away from OKC and into the city. So if vote was held to raise it to 8.6% (so + .1%), is anyone financially intelligent to determine how much additional revenue that could generate just for reference? Sorry... when it comes to running numbers I understand my limitations lol.

[onthestrip]

Was reading the streatgic goals this City Counsel laid out for 2022 and it is promising. Maybe not thinking "big" but it is progress of thought. Once curiosity sent me off to Google.

Edmond Sales Tax Rate: 8.5%
OKC Sales Tax Rate: 8.63%

While it is nice being lower than OKC... lets just admit that it is not drawing business away from OKC and into the city. So if vote was held to raise it to 8.6% (so + .1%), is anyone financially intelligent to determine how much additional revenue that could generate just for reference? Sorry... when it comes to running numbers I understand my limitations lol.

I believe the .25% sales tax increase for buying land adjacent to Hafer park was estimated to bring in $5-6 million. So .1% woulnt be much at all.